Egossi 1017 Posted March 27, 2017 Ive seen people play inappropriate stuff in these too many times. thats the point 1 Shadower reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertex 32 Posted March 28, 2017 (edited) Wait, wasn't TTT ready to launch like 5 months ago? How do you manage to fuck it up that badly? If i remember correctly all you needed was staff members and sourcebans and it would be ready to go? A couple Garry's Mod updates broke the poor coding practices on the TTT server. It's so bad currently, that the server and game client freezes, so it can't be fixed without starting over. The person who left this server for myself was clearly just learning how to code and did some things he shouldn't have. A lot of people can't get faster due to location/cost/isp monopoly etc and excluding them from being able to play on our servers seems really unfair. If people are having issues downloading files then that's obviously something you need to accommodate for adjust accordingly. Downloading on Morbus is more optimized than any other clan server will ever obtain. The FastDL is no longer used which doubles or triples the amount of content that can be sent in the same time window. The latency fallout is about 8 workshop packs x ping instead of 800 files x ping. And all textures are reduced to 1m/512kb/256kb for file sizes up to x20 smaller. The problem with having a couple hundred items in the pointshop is that it takes 83s for server downloads at 30mbps. (the national average) People who are still running 6mbps will take well over 7m to download the custom gamemode, server content and the current map pack. Even with no server content, some will likely still quit before 3m 30s time has passed. The question becomes how much should other people have to suffer for these slow downloaders? Should they have to download all 14 maps (one at a time) or have them sent in 50mb packs? Edit: I'll be taking less popular player models out of the pointshop when I get a chance. Optimizing for 10mbps instead of 15mbps download speeds should get a lot more players at a relatively small cost. Then this should be a good foundation for TTT when rebuilding a server from the ground up. Edited March 28, 2017 by Vertex (see edit history) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virr 808 Posted March 28, 2017 (edited) Disclaimer: its 10am and i haven't had much, if any sleep. Everything in here might be wrong and I just spent over an hour typing this up for no reason. Oh well. A couple Garry's Mod updates broke the poor coding practices on the TTT server. It's so bad currently, that the server and game client freezes, so it can't be fixed without starting over. The person who left this server for myself was clearly just learning how to code and did some things he shouldn't have. Gmod has only had two bigger updates since you made this post, none of which seem to switch things around too much to the point of a server completely breaking (unless there's been something i missed, i skimmed through the update thread and there didn't seem to be any issues). I'm also not sure how much custom content had been made for the old one, but a vanilla version of TTT is included when you install gmod, and setting it up isn't exactly rocket science, and neither is troubleshooting a server. If you manage to set up the old one in 45 minutes, surely fixing it can't take more than 5 months? I know school and free time is a major factor that plays into how much time you are able to dedicate to the clan, but that's the case for the vast majority of higher ups and most of us still manage to stay active despite all of that and if that's not possible you should consider getting more higher ups for your respective divisions or step down entirely. Downloading on Morbus is more optimized than any other clan server will ever obtain. The FastDL is no longer used which doubles or triples the amount of content that can be sent in the same time window. The latency fallout is about 8 workshop packs x ping instead of 800 files x ping. It's clearly not if download times are upwards of 5+ minutes for someone with a 1+MBps internet connection. If you are forcing people to download content that isn't used, of course download times are going to be slow. What are the benefits of bundling the maps together in packs? Correct me if I'm wrong, but they are still compressed when they are uploaded to the workshop, and only using 33% (assuming that all maps are the same size and that every pack has 3 maps(I'm aware that this isn't the case, I'm just gonna roll with it as an example)) of what you downloaded seems like a waste and while it is convenient that you now have 2 more maps for whenever the server changes to them, the trade off is going to be longer download times with the risk of the server not going to one of the maps you downloaded, forcing you to download another 50~ MB of data. In an ideal world, the user would only download the map when it is needed by the server. By bundling the maps into packs, not only are you making it longer for people to download stuff, but you are also taking up unnecessary hard drive space for the user. The bundling of stuff in "packs" makes sense when you are dealing with content that are static and never changes (morbus game mode, models, hub, etc) but not when it comes to maps that are constantly changing. The problem with having a couple hundred items in the pointshop is that it takes 83s for server downloads at 30mbps. (the national average) People who are still running 6mbps will take well over 7m to download the custom gamemode, server content and the current map pack. I'm not sure if I'm following the math here. I added all the workshop content on your steam profile and came to 465.1 MB. I'm using 6Mbps or 0,75MBps as the users download speed (lets be honest, this is an insanely slow download speed, and the percentage of users with this speed is probably so small its probably not worth accommodating for) since you mentioned earlier in the thread. [spoiler=Math] 28.624 + 44.100 + 25.362 + 40.366 + 32.981 + 0.177 + 11.348 + 61.409 + 55.682 + 56.482 + 54.151 + 54.424 = 465.106 ~ 465.1 465.1 / 0,75 = 620,13333... ~ 620,1 //Download time in seconds 620,1 / 60 = 10.335 = 10m20s //DL time in mins/secs Lets grab all the necessary content + 1 map pack. I picked the biggest one @ 61.4MB. [spoiler=Math] 28.624 + 44.100 + 25.362 + 40.366 + 32.981 + 0.177 + 11.348 + 61.409 = 244.367 ~ 244.4 244.4 / 0.75 = 325.8666.... ~ 325.9 //Download time in seconds 325.9 / 60 = 5.431666... = 5m26s //DL time in mins/secs Now, lets use a version of breach that i found on the workshop (breach is one of the 2 maps included in the map pack i used). Its size is 33MB. [spoiler=Math] 28.624 + 44.100 + 25.362 + 40.366 + 32.981 + 0.177 + 11.348 + 33 = 215.958 ~ 216 216 / 0.75 = 288 //Download time in seconds 288 / 60 = 4.8 = 4m 48s //DL time in mins/secs So by not bundling the maps together in packs we have now saved 38 seconds on download times. Even with no server content, some will likely still quit before 3m 30s time has passed. The question becomes how much should other people have to suffer for these slow downloaders? Should they have to download all 14 maps (one at a time) or have them sent in 50mb packs? By "no server content" do you mean a completely empty server? Why does it take 3m 30s to load in to a completely empty server? And in what way does other players suffer from slow loaders? As I've stated earlier in my post, i want to download the maps when they need to be downloaded, not because they are included in a pack with 2 other maps that i might never play, which are then never going to be used and just take up unnecessary space on my hard drive. Look, I'm not trying to be an asshole, but i do think you deserve criticism based on what others are saying and our own observations on how your divisions are run. The way you keep everything as separate as possible to our forums, with literally 0 interaction with the rest of us, leaves us to guessing about whats going on over in GMOD and ND. With the (somewhat) recent incident about a ban protest and some drama over a certain server crash exploit a while back i do think a lot of the criticism you get is deserved. Edited March 28, 2017 by Guest (see edit history) 1 1 2 realBelloWaldi, Egossi, Rabid and 1 other reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rabid 173 Posted March 28, 2017 Runescape division 1 1 1 virr, Egossi and Goblins reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YeEternalTuna 246 Posted March 28, 2017 Wizard101 Division Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thunder 79 Posted March 28, 2017 Wizard101 Division +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rhododendron 994 Posted March 28, 2017 If we start a vote for which divisions to start I'll fund it for a few months. 1 YeEternalTuna reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertex 32 Posted March 29, 2017 (edited) but a vanilla version of TTT is included when you install gmod, and setting it up isn't exactly rocket science, and neither is troubleshooting a server. If you manage to set up the old one in 45 minutes, surely fixing it can't take more than 5 months? It was almost ready when I spent 45m on it last doing some patch work. Further examination revealed fundamental issues with how the server was built. It's not difficult setting a new game-server up, it's just time consuming especially when everything is done right I know school and free time is a major factor that plays into how much time you are able to dedicate to the clan, but that's the case for the vast majority of higher ups and most of us still manage to stay active despite all of that and if that's not possible you should consider getting more higher ups for your respective divisions or step down entirely. There was more higher ups previously, but one was incapable of managing the division properly and the other resigned. College is my top priority. Running game-servers always comes second when I have free time to spare. I do not try to balance these things; I always put college first. I'm not sure if I'm following the math here. I added all the workshop content on your steam profile and came to 465.1 MB. I'm using 6Mbps or 0,75MBps as the users download speed The maximum total download size (in one sitting) is only 243.56MB. The map pack is only mounted when one of it's maps is being played. They do not download when not being used. There's about 45MB too much pointshop content that is increasing download times by 1m for 6mbps. Loading times are also 30-60s longer when you factor in the time it takes to decompress the GMA files. The total file size is closer to 600MB for total hardrive space consumed. (in the first download session) It's clearly not if download times are upwards of 5+ minutes for someone with a 1+MBps internet connection. If you are forcing people to download content that isn't used, of course download times are going to be slow. All content is used. Everything is repackaged with texture sizes optimized for faster download times. I'm not sure if I'm following the math here. I use a download time calculator such as this one because there's only factors which effect download times. Download time calculator - Calculate Download time/speed Now, lets use a version of breach that i found on the workshop (breach is one of the 2 maps included in the map pack i used). Its size is 33MB. So by not bundling the maps together in packs we have now saved 38 seconds on download times. Map packs are between 50MB and 60MB. And they contain 2 to 6 maps depending on which pack. This reduces downloading when the map changes by 70%. The GMA compression is also more efficient when maps are bundled together. These only account for 1/4th of the download file size and are well worth the pre-loading benefits of less downloading. The 6 most popular maps for instance are in a single map pack. When changing between these, the client only has to download them once instead of 6 separate times. Edited March 29, 2017 by Vertex (see edit history) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chrono 372 Posted March 29, 2017 Quite frankly, the talk in this thread between @virr and @Vertex should be taken to a thread in the GMOD Discussion, and it shouldn't be gigantic posts about download time and what is more optimizing/better. The debating that should be happening is about TTT and when/why it is/isn't coming. IMO if there were fundamental issues with the server setup causing this big of a delay, it isn't hard to wipe and start over and do it "right" from the start. including the facts Virr already mentioned, as well as my post in the thread he originally linked. TTT is a standard part of GMOD nowadays, The maps are tiny for your guys' download speed debate, and while the statistics claim an average of like 6-15 mbits in the US that accounts for all users with active internet plans/subscriptions like old ladies who live with a hospice nurse. whereas the average player of an internet based pc game is going to be on the higher end of that/much above average. 2 virr and realBelloWaldi reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSPlayer1337 83 Posted March 29, 2017 i'm going to suggest something before this derails to a gmod debate flamewar thread what about super smash bros brawlhalla? we only had one event of it probably make that a division? 2 YeEternalTuna and Tatost reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tatost 604 Posted March 30, 2017 i'm going to suggest something before this derails to a gmod debate flamewar thread what about super smash bros brawlhalla? we only had one event of it probably make that a division? not something you can make a larger server out of, you can invite friends to play with you instead. Games are only 4-player maximum if i'm correct. 2 Aegean and YeEternalTuna reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Egossi 1017 Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) the amount of time spent to make these massive posts would have been enough to setup a TTT server from scratch probably Edited March 30, 2017 by Guest (see edit history) 1 3 1 YeEternalTuna, LucehMcellion, Tatost and 2 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertex 32 Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) the amount of time spent to make these massive posts would have been enough to setup a TTT server from scratch probably Not quite. I type about 50-80 words per minute when I get going. Quite frankly, the talk in this thread between IMO if there were fundamental issues with the server setup causing this big of a delay, it isn't hard to wipe and start over. There's a lot more to creating a server than just pressing the wipe button. Launching a decent server with all the basic necessities takes days to set up. A lot of that time is consumed by testing things. There's a lot of different components that need testing like spray bans, source-bans, ulx & ulib, rdm logs, maps etc. Edited March 30, 2017 by Guest (see edit history) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kypari 579 Posted March 30, 2017 There's a lot more to creating a server than just pressing the wipe button. Launching a decent server with all the basic necessities takes days to set up. A lot of that time is consumed by testing things. There's a lot of different components that need testing like spray bans, source-bans, ulx & ulib, rdm logs, maps etc. Is it possible you could spend those days getting it up and running then? TTT would be pretty cool. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertex 32 Posted March 30, 2017 Is it possible you could spend those days getting it up and running then? TTT would be pretty cool. I can look into it at the start of May when my semester is over. The point-shop will need cleaned up first though to reduce download sizes. 1 Kypari reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites