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BonfireCentipede

Sucy the Mushroom

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  • Division
    Team Fortress 2
  • In-Game Name
    Bonfire
  • Offender's Identity
    Sucy the Mushroom
  • Ban Type
    Server Ban
  • Explanation and Evidence

    Ever since Sucy first started playing on tgh he's always been at the center of heated arguments on the server.

    Every time he's on the server he always says very controversial statements.
    At this point he's saying things like this just to get a rise out of everyone and to make people on the server upset.

    Right now Sucy is muted for a month, But a problem rises that he can still do what he was muted for in text and it looks like he still has full intent to do what he normally does but instead of over the mic he just says it in chat which still creates the same problem.

    In my opinion, the only way we can tell him to stop acting like this is a ban of some sort. He just joins the server to upset people and cause controversy.

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Edited by virr
thread title (see edit history)

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Here are his chatlogs: https://xenogamers.com/rank/player_histories/chat/890386

Here's a link to his previous bans: https://bans.xenogamers.com/index.php?p=banlist&advSearch=STEAM_0:1:58051530&advType=steamid

Here's a link to his mutes/gags: https://bans.xenogamers.com/index.php?p=commslist&advSearch=STEAM_0:1:58051530&advType=steamid

Finally, his Steam ID: STEAM_0:1:58051530

 

Sucy has been a pretty regular point of discussion and controversy for a long time now. His previous bans and mutes demonstrate what kind of a person Sucy is like: argumentative, disrespectful and inconsiderate. Many times has he been warned or punished about his actions and I feel like he has not changed since. There are times when I doubt how hostile he actually tends to come off across as, however it is evident at this point that he purposely brings up these conversation topics to get under people's skin. At this point, personally, I would honestly be looking to see some kind of extended ban, possibly even a permanent ban from the servers as he has clearly shown that he is not someone that intends to comply by the rules and always causes people to get upset, disgusted or overcome with anxiety-related emotions. I have had a few people message me privately about how they feel and it's really upsetting to see them feel in such a bad way. 

+1 For perm ban

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+1

He really should know better at this point. I've seen him get muted several times before and even banned a few times I believe, he has seemingly not learned anything from them as shown here that he keeps on doing it. Just about every time I've seen him on the server he is talking about things like what's been shown. I'm not sure if he's even really joking with some of the things he says anymore. He just all around acts disrespectful and confrontational.

 

Not sure if I would go for a perma quite yet, maybe a month long ban.

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+1 I'm down for a month ban honestly.

Most of the things been stated above so i'll keep this short. I personally think he should get month ban and not permanent even though I'd like that we should at least give him time to reflect on all the fucked up / conversational stuff he's said on the server since he started playing on tgh. 

I'm surprise he has a short ban history but we shouldn't jump the gun on this, either way i'm all down for week - month ban.

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Let me clarify why I personally think he should be permed:
Although I also agree that a month ban would be suitable as well, I think that all of what's happened has been caused by the extended mutes that Sucy has instead of bans, which should have been done instead. As clarified recently, we should be looking to do extended mutes on those that do smaller things, such as having a bad mic or something similarly harmless. However, we have been doing these extended mutes instead of bans as of recently and clearly the message isn't getting across and I don't believe that they were being issued properly, since it's clear that Sucy continues to be an issue in the chat instead.

There has not been much clarified as far as bans correlating to extended mutes goes unfortunately, which leaves a pretty obvious gaping grey area for what would actually be the right thing to do. If the extended mute system doesn't correlate with bans, then the system would basically go:
Warn -> Mute -> Kick -> Mute day -> mute week -> mute month -> mute perm -> ban 60? -> ??

It feels like it kind of falls apart, especially when it comes to disagreements amongst staff. Of course, flexibility is super important as staff, though when it comes to something like this it becomes entirely subjective and can range from going down to a smaller ban to being permed, making this a bigger issue in my opinion. The extended mute that Sucy has right now as I have said I felt like wasn't the correct option personally, but I asked @mrnutty12 what he thought a punishment would be as a ban instead since Sucy had been reported as being an issue in the chat at the time, and he said ban him for 60 mins (or some other super low time I can't remember). It sounds really strange to me to go from what would have been being permed (as of the week mute then the month mute) to go down to a very small ban, whereas if the extended mutes were issued as bans instead (as per what was implied by higherups in the staff chat), then we would have a week ban replacing @Elcark's mute and a month ban replacing @Natsu's mute, meaning that this (despite the mute not actually wearing off yet) would move onto a perm. Combined with the fact that there have been many issues surrounding Sucy plenty of times, it has gotten to a point of clear ill intent for a majority of the time (though I can gather that sometimes he doesn't) and plays with intent to start controversy, arguments and upset, distress or annoy those around him. 

I also stated in my previous post that an extended period of time (month..etc) would be fitting as well instead of a perm. I am more for a perm as of the reasons I have stated, though I am not opposed to an extended ban.

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Whilst I agree Sucy is indefinitely someone who purposely says controversial things to get a reaction from others, gameplay wise, he's an active player and does make the number difference between 11 players (when you think: "Eh there's not enough people) and 12 players (when you think "Sure I'll join", then the server becomes more populated). Personally, I think that we should try and avoid bans as much as we can in order to maintain a server population. I think that if we're going to perm him, it should be a permanent silence rather than a ban.

+1 for perm silence

Neutral on banning him

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+1

I think him calling people degenerates and trying to justify it is more than enough, I also warned him he'd get into trouble if he keeps his attitude like that.

plus he's assaulting a huge amount of xG's community as there are plenty of furries including my best friend @Kypari in that regard he went too far, and from what I've seen he's been very far for a pretty long time imo.

May seem hypocritical coming from me but he's too toxic for his own good, I'm all for banning him for a month or so.

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Ok...where to even begin....

5 hours ago, Kypari said:

There has not been much clarified as far as bans correlating to extended mutes goes unfortunately

I've tried to bring up and help clarify this issue a few times now and staff should have a more clear understanding towards this subject matter, but this is not what this thread is about so I will leave it at there will hopefully be a more solid response to this soon (though probably not much different then what most people have already heard).

5 hours ago, Kypari said:

if the extended mutes were issued as bans instead (as per what was implied by higherups in the staff chat), then we would have a week ban replacing @Elcark's mute and a month ban replacing @Natsu's mute, meaning that this (despite the mute not actually wearing off yet) would move onto a perm.

The keyword here is "if", because they were not bans and it's entirely unfair for us to retroactively decide to treat them as if they were. Doing so would lead to the potential of all sorts of ambiguity of punishing people to a greater extent because of theoretical punishments as apposed to an actual history and should be strongly avoided because of that. There's a reason a system exists for bans and there is a reason we should follow it as opposed to just skipping parts because of what "could" have been. You could argue that the mutes in question should have been bans (even then that's excluding the fact that no kick was present in between in either case) but that isn't something that should be faulted on someone who was punished, and instead is attributed as a mistake on the part of us as staff which isn't something he should be punished further on account of. 

5 hours ago, Tekage said:

Personally, I think that we should try and avoid bans as much as we can in order to maintain a server population.

What good is server population if the server is full of people who are rampantly toxic and actively make the place worse for everyone? There is a reason we punish people for this kind of behavior, simply put we don't want people like this on our servers. Just settling on perm silencing people doesn't help either for two reasons as I see it. One, in a number of cases this isn't going to change the persons behavior at all (such as how being muted has had no effect on how sucy behaves) and likely would just get them to continue to cause problems in other ways, with the punishment not having any real effect on fixing the problem in the long run. The other reason is that as I see it the servers are a very social place for most people, so not having the ability to interact socially when on the servers would defeat the purpose for most people to join in the first place, so the result would be no different then having banned them. 

 

So, all that said i'm absolutely in favor of issuing a ban due to the continued toxic behavior and will advocate for a week ban as that's the next step for him. If he works his way up to a perm then let him climb the ladder each step of the way with the opportunity to stop before it reaches that point just as almost every single other person who gets banned goes through. Despite me wanting a week ban I will say now because of his extensive history and notoriety I wouldn't exactly fight against him getting a month ban if other higher ups decide to go with that, but am not going to push it myself and would rather stick to how things work.

(lastly sorry if this is hard to follow or messed up in any sense, tired as fuck)

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I don't necessarily understand why people are pushing for a permanent ban on this guy over a bit of BM in chat. It doesn't even look like what he said was actually directed at anyone, and simply general opinions on "furries" themselves. The kids like 14 or 15 and it's really obvious he just wants attention. I agree with Elcark, 1 week is plenty enough for something like this.

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I feel Sucy has been extremely toxic since I became active again in the community and first started encountering him, even to the point of opting to leave the server multiple times due to his antics (muting was not an option for he would continue to talk over others and make it impossible to converse on the server and enjoy the game effectively). He has attacked the personal opinions of many players on the server verbally and when confronted about it attempts to guilt staff by saying things such as "Well i think everyone would be better off if I just killed myself" or things similar. I personally feel like at first a perm mic ban would have been a good solution but based on all accounts as far as I can distinguish he intends to continue  low key harassing people and attacking their personal thoughts in chat in inappropriate ways which I believe he does completely consciously.

 I feel personally that interns of a ban, it is a reasonable solution however I think that it is important for me to state I have had personal conflicts in game with sucy (in game) in the past so unless for some reason, it comes down to a tie breaker, I ask that my vote to ban sucy not be counted, I just wanted to voice my opinions and thoughts on the matter.

Edited by Johny3Tears (see edit history)

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34 minutes ago, Vexx said:

I don't necessarily understand why people are pushing for a permanent ban on this guy over a bit of BM in chat. It doesn't even look like what he said was actually directed at anyone, and simply general opinions on "furries" themselves.

IMO, stuff like BM'ing is only ok if either everyone's in on it or doesn't really care that much about it. Even if what he's talking about is just furries in general, that doesn't really make what he's saying ok because some of our staff and regulars are furries. In general, I'm ok with jokes, but like I said before, it's to the point where I'm not sure if he even is just doing "BM" at this point, I'm sorta thinking that he's serious about some of the stuff he's saying.

Edited by DiaperHyperWolf (see edit history)

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1 hour ago, Vexx said:

I don't necessarily understand why people are pushing for a permanent ban on this guy over a bit of BM in chat. It doesn't even look like what he said was actually directed at anyone, and simply general opinions on "furries" themselves. The kids like 14 or 15 and it's really obvious he just wants attention. I agree with Elcark, 1 week is plenty enough for something like this.

As of the whole extended mute issue that we have currently it is in my personal opinion that his offenses add up to a perm or a month ban, though I understand why people disagree!

A 1 week ban would be the next step in the instance that we go back to specifically and solely focusing on bans and basically forget about the extended mutes that they have received. If that's what's going to happen with everyone who has received an extended mute that has bad intentions or the rule isn't harmless, then that's fine by me. I think it's incredibly unfortunate however that these punishments that they have received already would just go unnoticed because the staff member who initiated these mutes thought that it was more appropriate.

In regards to BM, trolling and disrespect is not allowed on the servers, no matter if it's targeted at anyone specifically. If it's being said in general and someone could get hurt by it, then that is not allowed. 

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It doesn't matter if it's said in general or if something appears harmless. In my opinion, we can't just assume that other people simply don't care about the disrespect that they feel relates to them and we must act with that in mind. I personally don't care at all about being told to be put in a mental hospital or killing myself for being a furry because I'm used to it (specific to being a furry only), whereas there are a lot of other furries out there that would get upset about these comments. 

Edited by Kypari (see edit history)

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+1 for a week ban, because it's honestly not worth of a perm. Maybe he needs to cool down a bit, but other than that it looks like he is trying to be more edgy and toxic rather than disrespectful.

Also with the ban, maybe someone message him letting him know the reason and extent of the ban, as well as what will happen if he continues. A new approach to bans may not be so bad ?

Edited by Giraffes (see edit history)

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+1 for week ban. Every time I'm on with him he always creates an argument of some sorts. Doesn't matter the topic, he will find a way to argue it. And there is always somebody on the server he ends up pissing off for doing what he does. We constantly told him to stop arguing and he would just end up starting again immediately after we told him to stop. I would't say he deserves a perma ban, but one of the big bois needs to talk to him on steam and tell him to stop.

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He honestly just seems to like confrontation. If you let him know he's getting under your skin you're giving him attention and that validates him because that's his goal. I honestly don't think we should even really ban him, he's just another body on the server most of the time.

If we really want we should just silence him for longer and longer periods of time and if all he wants to come on to do is shit-talk he'll soon stop returning. Otherwise he's keeping the servers populated while unable to start shit or will learn to stop starting shit, which is the best of both worlds

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