The rules....and other stuff

[YeEternalTuna 246]

I don't even know where to start. So recently I've been seeing staff members enforce a rule that was removed ages ago (the ''no immature voice'' rule) and every time I've had to clarify that its no longer a rule (specifically on surf and a few others) I get told to either: (A) Make a thread on it or (B) Don't argue with staff (which is getting super aggravating). Then I get told that this is ''still a rule'' and that it just means ''don't be a moron on mic'' which is EXTREMELY VAGUE and doesn't help AT ALL with that argument. They also just point me to the ''No voice changers or tts programs'' rule but that makes no sense. Then there's also hypocrisy going on with staff where they'd punish you for being [saying something] ''disrespectful'' but then do it themselves. There are also a LOT of problems with the rules and the way staff portray and enforce the rules because theres a lot of ''up in the air rules'' and the rules themselves need to be fixed across ALL of the servers since its so unorganized and sometimes vague.

P.S. Please make sure your staff actually read the rules before they try enforcing anything because from what i've seen the older staff just snowball a non-existing rule(s) into the new staff and it just gets out of control 

P.S.S. Can you PLEASE fix the ''Dont argue with staff'' rule because staff are using it to shut out people when they're in the wrong and they just make up excuses every single time they're called out for something wrong that they did because apparently criticism is now arguing with someone. 

[Kypari 579]

The only thing that's changed was the immature voices rule being taken off the /rules list since it was specifically targeted at kids, but it's still micspam in the motd due to staff discretion, examples being intentionally and put on high voices, fake and obnoxious accents etc. Hope that clears things up.

Edited July 1, 2018 by Kypari (see edit history)

[Reptile 149]

People are still enforcing the no immature voices thing? I remember telling people that rule was removed back when I was staff. And...kid voices are micspam due to staff discretion? Seems a little...not good to leave that sort of thing up to staff as opposed to being concrete.

Also yeah, the whole "Don't argue with staff" thing is used more often just to stop anyone from saying a word while the staff gets the last word in as opposed to just keeping things from escalating out of control. Seems a little bit bleh.

 

[Tatost 604]

Okay, I've seen a few threads on rules being vague, or not being specific enough. Can we just have the higher-ups finally go through the entire list of rules and think among themselves "do we need to elaborate on this?" You guys should also ask the community (members and non-members) for rules they would like to be more specific, as those are the rules they have to abide by and you have to enforce. This way we can actually have a set of rules that don't need to be revised for clarity every few months.

9 minutes ago, Kypari said:

The only thing that's changed was the immature voices rule being taken off the /rules list since it was specifically targeted at kids, but it's still micspam in the motd due to staff discretion. Hope that clears things up.

It might be pushing it, but I'll compare this to the Supreme Court of the United States. There are two terms, loose construction, and strict construction. You guys are using loose construction by bending the rules to fit more modern means. (I only use bending because I couldn't think of a better word). However, when you make these changes you guys aren't very good at alerting people "hey we've kind of altered what this means, here's what it means now and why we changed it!" To be completely honest, I'm not sure what is allowed and what isn't anymore. Stuff that used to not fly back in, say, 2016 is welcomed with open arms.

tldr, please be more specific and open about rules, please revise the motd if possible and make sure you don't have to alter them next month. Make your staff members, as well as the regulars aware of the change with a PSA or something. It's obvious that some are unhappy with the clarity of the rules.

Edited July 1, 2018 by Tatost (see edit history)

[Kypari 579]

6 minutes ago, Tatost said:

It might be pushing it, but I'll compare this to the Supreme Court of the United States. There are two terms, loose construction, and strict construction. You guys are using loose construction by bending the rules to fit more modern means. (I only use bending because I couldn't think of a better word). However, when you make these changes you guys aren't very good at alerting people "hey we've kind of altered what this means, here's what it means now and why we changed it!" To be completely honest, I'm not sure what is allowed and what isn't anymore. Stuff that used to not fly back in, say, 2016 is welcomed with open arms.

tldr, please be more specific and open about rules, please revise the motd if possible and make sure you don't have to alter them next month. Make your staff members, as well as the regulars aware of the change with a PSA or something. It's obvious that some are unhappy with the clarity of the rules.

Nothing has changed, that's the thing.

I'm personally not opposed to clarifying things moreso at all, but I can't say the same for everyone unfortunately. 

Edited July 1, 2018 by Kypari (see edit history)

[Reptile 149]

I do think it'd be a good idea to basically go through all the rules for each server and talk them over or at the least clean them up and make one big list that's up to date and has any unsaid rules or conditions for certain rules. Would also help to make some stuff less up to staff discretion or subjective since then you'd get less issues where someone does something because they thought it was allowed, but then another staff punishes them for it.

Not to say every staff is doing things wrong or such mind you, but it'd help if everyone had similar goals or rules in mind.

Edited July 1, 2018 by Sesh (see edit history)

[Tatost 604]

1 minute ago, Kypari said:

I'm personally not opposed to clarifying things moreso at all, but I can't say the same for everyone unfortunately. 

If you won't, I will. How could being clear hurt anyone?

2 minutes ago, Kypari said:

Nothing has changed, that's the thing.

No, things did change. You said that the 'no immature voices' rule used to be targeted at young children. Nowhere did it say "you can't make impersonations on mic." You guys recently changed the rule to fit more modern needs. There isn't anything wrong with that, it's just that we're not very good about getting the word around that this or that rule changed, or you got a new rule at the pet store.

I know we have a general updates thread, so can I suggest that we add that to the list of stuff being broadcasted at all times on the server? Ex: "Any changes to the MOTD will be posted in this thread [link], please check this thread to keep informed!"

[virr 808]

27 minutes ago, YeEternalTuna said:

no longer a rule

Depends on where you look, its very clearly mentioned in the TGH MOTD but not so much in the surf one. Elaborating below

30 minutes ago, YeEternalTuna said:

''Dont argue with staff''

I kind of agree with this. The idea in theory is good but if its used to censor people thats obviously not ok. However, I would recommend to not try to take those discussions on servers and instead do it on forums or in dms as servers easily get messy and a bit too much when all you wanna do is play the video games.

10 minutes ago, Tatost said:

Okay, I've seen a few threads on rules being vague, or not being specific enough. Can we just have the higher-ups finally go through the entire list of rules and think among themselves "do we need to elaborate on this?" You guys should also ask the community (members and non-members) for rules they would like to be more specific, as those are the rules they have to abide by and you have to enforce. This way we can actually have a set of rules that don't need to be revised for clarity every few months.

It might be pushing it, but I'll compare this to the Supreme Court of the United States. There are two terms, loose construction, and strict construction. You guys are using loose construction by bending the rules to fit more modern means. (I only use bending because I couldn't think of a better word). However, when you make these changes you guys aren't very good at alerting people "hey we've kind of altered what this means, here's what it means now and why we changed it!" To be completely honest, I'm not sure what is allowed and what isn't anymore. Stuff that used to not fly back in, say, 2016 is welcomed with open arms.

tldr, please be more specific and open about rules, please revise the motd if possible and make sure you don't have to alter them next month. Make your staff members, as well as the regulars aware of the change with a PSA or something. It's obvious that some are unhappy with the clarity of the rules. 

This is actually something that has been brought up and is on our radar. Just looking at jb, tgh and surf for example there are clear differences in the "general" rules and it makes it a bit awkward when transitioning between servers if they arent consistent. It WILL get adressed, we just need to find a time and place to sit down and discuss what we actually want to do with them. Depending on what the others think i wouldnt be opposed to having a thread open with feedback and what people would like to have changed in the future.

[Tatost 604]

just going to tag the higher-ups who haven't seen the thread yet. @Elcark @Caleb956

[Kypari 579]

5 minutes ago, Tatost said:

No, things did change. You said that the 'no immature voices' rule used to be targeted at young children. Nowhere did it say "you can't make impersonations on mic." You guys recently changed the rule to fit more modern needs. There isn't anything wrong with that, it's just that we're not very good about getting the word around that this or that rule changed, or you got a new rule at the pet store.

No, I'm saying nothing changed other than how the rule was against children in the /rules, yet the rule was incredibly outdated by literally years when we removed it, we just had lazy DLs waaay back then. Nothing changed in regards to the rule being removed and re-added or anything like that.

Edited July 1, 2018 by Kypari (see edit history)

[LAN_Megalodon 195]

"No immature voices" is no longer related to the actual age of the persons on mic and is now used as more of a method of dealing with people who intentionally use an exaggerated voice to irritate people.

[Kypari 579]

7 minutes ago, Kypari said:

we just had lazy DLs waaay back then.

Sorry, should clarify I meant back in like early or mid 2015, not 2016-2017.

[LAN_Megalodon 195]

Just now, Shadower said:

In my experience with this rule, its usually just used to silence people who are making imitations or impersonations as a joke, then perhaps a staff member would be like "no immature voices on mic stop it." personally I don't see any problem with the jokes and stuff, as long as its not interrupting any trades/not malintent, but most of the times it seems like a no fun allowed rule.

There was some dude who came on poketrade and just talked in a sub-par impersonation of the soldier's voice 24/7. Trust me, it's a useful rule to keep around.

[NitNat 239]

4 minutes ago, LAN_Megalodon said:

"No immature voices" is no longer related to the actual age of the persons on mic and is now used as more of a method of dealing with people who intentionally use an exaggerated voice to irritate people.

You're just restating what's already been mentioned by someone else.  The "exaggerated voice" on servers is clearly not to irritate someone.  I've seen a few examples of it being for humor that should've annoy anyone in the first place.  I was even told today "no immature voice allowed" when I answered a question to a surf friend today in a slightly higher pitch than my normal voice in one sentence.  I didn't have the intent behind to annoy anyone with it but as a little burst of humor to lighten to mood of the surf in general, but seeing how up in the air the current "rule" of that is, it creates a no fun allowed feeling in the servers.

[Kypari 579]

4 minutes ago, NitNat said:

You're just restating what's already been mentioned by someone else.  The "exaggerated voice" on servers is clearly not to irritate someone.  I've seen a few examples of it being for humor that should've annoy anyone in the first place.  I was even told today "no immature voice allowed" when I answered a question to a surf friend today in a slightly higher pitch than my normal voice in one sentence.  I didn't have the intent behind to annoy anyone with it but as a little burst of humor to lighten to mood of the surf in general, but seeing how up in the air the current "rule" of that is, it creates a no fun allowed feeling in the servers.

If staff are doing that then I'd like you to PM me or any other higherup about stuff like that and we'll sort things out!

The thing is, even if you aren't intending to annoy people, it can still get on peoples nerves when you do voices. I think the severity of immature voices needs to be addressed and I will look into that along with the clarification as well