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QueenOfHearts

Censoring, Hypocrisy and Toxicity

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An issue that we have on our servers is our treatment of slurs and offensive words. We don’t allow racial slurs and other vocabulary made to demean and offend, something that benefits the servers, But one word escapes this rule

 

Faggot

 

It is ridiculous that it is allowed considering the fact that the servers have such a large LGBTQ+ presence , but that is why this thread was made, to discuss and push the fact that it really should not be allowed. On Top of the fact that is offensive and often used in toxic ways, it paints the server as hypocritical. Why ban some slurs and not others? I have often kicked/muted people for slurs who then start saying faggot asking why this is allowed, why am I not muting them. It is a bad message to send. I know that there are people who wish to keep their right to openly say slurs (despite no real reason to) but really it is detrimental to the message we are trying to send and does nothing beneficial to the servers.

 

So I ask that we vote, to enforce a ban on the word, a notion me and other mods, try to enforce already, as it hurts us, hurts them, hurts us all and sends a hypocritical message to any new and veteran players.

Edited by VinylScratch (see edit history)

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100% agree. I've always found the term "faggot" to be a massive grey area in the sense that it's not against the rules to say, but in typical context it usually comes under disrespect. I've always felt as though words such as this shouldn't be allowed on the server in the first place.

 If slurs relating to different cultures are banned, then this should be too.  +1

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Please ban every word in this list.

The terminology of a slur is incredibly broad, the concept of banning all slurs is not as simple as disallowing a small handful of words. Cunt is a genderphobic slur. Tranny is a sexual slur. Cheesehead and hillbilly are ethnic slurs. Disallowing the great variety of words that can easily be defined as a slur is something that has been in the community narrowed down to a number of notable ethnic slurs, but why is that? As far as I believe, expectations of behavior derived from societal norms. It is not uncommon to see a variety of words such as bitch and fag that can be defined as slurs be used openly to an extent they are words you can hear multiple times a day and nothing would be out of the norm. Breaking out some of the more notorious racial slurs such as chink, kike, or nigger are not something you will see used at all by a much greater extent and are viewed negatively practically universally. Ethnic slurs like this have a much stronger taboo rooted to them that sees even uttering them as unacceptable, a taboo which faggot does not have to the same extent. Famous pieces of literature such as "To Kill a Mocking Bird" and "Huckleberry finn" (and other works of Mark Twain I believe) have received such censorship over these slurs to see them banned from schools in more then one occasion, while this is not the case for sexual and gender slurs. To put it simply, faggot is just not seen negatively to the same extent as the aforementioned racial and ethnic slurs by society as a whole. 

The etymology of the word faggot has received harsher criticism over time of course, but so have a great many. Autistic is very often used in an equally negative sense and is viewed harshly because of this. The same goes for retard, though to a much greater extent in recent times to the point the word is discouraged to be used entirely in some places even when not used in a direct negative way. Banning faggot would be hypocritical in itself if we did not take into consideration other words that exist on similar levels of disdain within society these days, but what is the likely hood that this community is going to view such words in such an extreme light?

This community has spent at least two years functioning fine in this same mindset that faggot does not necessarily quantify the same connotation as the racial slurs we don't allow. It by all means can and is used in an insulting and disrespectful manner, just like practically anything can, and the situations that this happens have always been handled appropriately without having to resort to such an extremity as this. The only reason I would personally feel it is a necessary act would be if we believed either the community was incapable of behaving in a mature enough manner to use this word without absolutely meaning it to be derogatory or if it was believed our staff were incapable of properly knowing how to differentiate between the two cases. Otherwise, it is straight up a matter of constraints on the entire population for the personal felt benefit of a smaller portion. The phrasing "xG is becoming safe space" is an extreme way of expressing it's intended concept, but in this case at it's root that phrasing is entirely accurate. 

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A lot of what Elcark said really. If someone is calling you a faggot or whatever you can mute them because that's disrespect, or if someone is continuously using the word faggot in an attempt to upset you, then that's not allowed either. The word itself isn't as bad as the n-word, but the thing is @mrnutty12 also said that mongol isn't allowed, which I wouldn't say is on the same level as the n-word. This is where it just gets too confusing and aaaaa

I won't say I'm personally offended by the word faggot and I'm the literal definition of it. Obviously we don't all think alike, which is why it's OK to mute or gag people if they are saying it in attempt to upset you, but for the word itself being disallowed I'm not really sure.

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But why do people need to say it in the first place? What is gained out of saying a word that is offensive to people? What is the humor in it? The way I see it, there is absolutely nothing gained and there is no humor or comedic appeal to it.

If someone doesn’t want you to use a word because it offends them or makes them uncomfortable, you should respect it. No one should have to (client-side) mute anyone, it’s a thing called common courtesy... not that hard.

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13 minutes ago, TheSupremePatriot said:

But why do people need to say it in the first place? What is gained out of saying a word that is offensive to people? What is the humor in it? The way I see it, there is absolutely nothing gained and there is no humor or comedic appeal to it.

If someone doesn’t want you to use a word because it offends them or makes them uncomfortable, you should respect it. No one should have to (client-side) mute anyone, it’s a thing called common courtesy... not that hard.

Not client-side mute. If someone is visibly getting upset by a word then that's grounds for muting/gagging.

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32 minutes ago, Elcark said:

Please ban every word in this list.

The terminology of a slur is incredibly broad, the concept of banning all slurs is not as simple as disallowing a small handful of words. Cunt is a genderphobic slur. Tranny is a sexual slur. Cheesehead and hillbilly are ethnic slurs. Disallowing the great variety of words that can easily be defined as a slur is something that has been in the community narrowed down to a number of notable ethnic slurs, but why is that? As far as I believe, expectations of behavior derived from societal norms. It is not uncommon to see a variety of words such as bitch and fag that can be defined as slurs be used openly to an extent they are words you can hear multiple times a day and nothing would be out of the norm. Breaking out some of the more notorious racial slurs such as chink, kike, or nigger are not something you will see used at all by a much greater extent and are viewed negatively practically universally. Ethnic slurs like this have a much stronger taboo rooted to them that sees even uttering them as unacceptable, a taboo which faggot does not have to the same extent. Famous pieces of literature such as "To Kill a Mocking Bird" and "Huckleberry finn" (and other works of Mark Twain I believe) have received such censorship over these slurs to see them banned from schools in more then one occasion, while this is not the case for sexual and gender slurs. To put it simply, faggot is just not seen negatively to the same extent as the aforementioned racial and ethnic slurs by society as a whole. 

The etymology of the word faggot has received harsher criticism over time of course, but so have a great many. Autistic is very often used in an equally negative sense and is viewed harshly because of this. The same goes for retard, though to a much greater extent in recent times to the point the word is discouraged to be used entirely in some places even when not used in a direct negative way. Banning faggot would be hypocritical in itself if we did not take into consideration other words that exist on similar levels of disdain within society these days, but what is the likely hood that this community is going to view such words in such an extreme light?

This community has spent at least two years functioning fine in this same mindset that faggot does not necessarily quantify the same connotation as the racial slurs we don't allow. It by all means can and is used in an insulting and disrespectful manner, just like practically anything can, and the situations that this happens have always been handled appropriately without having to resort to such an extremity as this. The only reason I would personally feel it is a necessary act would be if we believed either the community was incapable of behaving in a mature enough manner to use this word without absolutely meaning it to be derogatory or if it was believed our staff were incapable of properly knowing how to differentiate between the two cases. Otherwise, it is straight up a matter of constraints on the entire population for the personal felt benefit of a smaller portion. The phrasing "xG is becoming safe space" is an extreme way of expressing it's intended concept, but in this case at it's root that phrasing is entirely accurate. 

We're not saying "ban every word that's considered a slur". We should ban the words that are commonly used to demean people so everyone feels welcomed. There's a nice hand full of people on our servers who don't like this word being used wether it's "jokingly" or not. Everytime someone's like to say "oh you fucking faggot" or "what are you a faggot?" makes someone feel that their in the wrong because of their sexuality. Our clan/servers are suppose to make people feel welcomed, their suppose to have fun. They shouldn't have to worry that they'll be ridiculed or not. 

Maybe we should go through that list and ban a good amount of slurs. No one should be making fun of people for the way they choose to live their life. 

Like Queen said, there's been many of times we've muted/gaged people for saying the N word, then someone asks why another person wasn't gagged for "faggot". We have to come around full circle or we just look silly. Also, we have alot of actual children who play on our servers. Wether the games we play are rated M or not, we have to keep that in mind. You get a 12 year old running around calling people faggots and not know any better? That's just not right lol 

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2 minutes ago, Nozomi said:

You get a 12 year old running around calling people faggots and not know any better? That's just not right lol 

Sounds exactly like school to me ?

3 minutes ago, Nozomi said:

We're not saying "ban every word that's considered a slur". We should ban the words that are commonly used to demean people so everyone feels welcomed. There's a nice hand full of people on our servers who don't like this word being used wether it's "jokingly" or not. Everytime someone's like to say "oh you fucking faggot" or "what are you a faggot?" makes someone feel that their in the wrong because of their sexuality. Our clan/servers are suppose to make people feel welcomed, their suppose to have fun. They shouldn't have to worry that they'll be ridiculed or not.

As I said before they can just be muted or gagged for disrespect, so that would solve that, but on the other hand you're right so aaaaaa

5 minutes ago, Nozomi said:

Maybe we should go through that list and ban a good amount of slurs.

I agree, maybe in a listed form in the staff handbook.

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On the topic of slurs themselves, I personally see no benefit to using words like forementioned, unless you are trying to start a disruption in the population. In this case, we can likely shut that down immediately, since disrupting the community and starting a "mutiny" isn't really accepted (speaking on a specific case that all rooted from one word). I apologize for attempting to be all diplomatic, but realistically those that cannot function in a community without demeaning other's shouldn't be in that community. However, trying to ban every word that exists in the world that has this type of power is evidentally extremely difficult, and of course we will see complaints such as how "limiting" it is. In this case, I propose making the rule(s) that deal with these terms "derogatory terms are not allowed," plain and simple since those who want to "rebel" against it will have to find new reasoning, and everyone else is (we can only hope) satiated.

I rephrase, the only point to defending the use of such words is essentially to be contrary, which is only fun for those who find fun in defying structure. This means that they will attempt to use and defend slurs and tabooed words to fight against "the system". Banning and restricting the use of these taboos will seem to only start more avid arguments in the future, again only to be contrary. It is alot easier to do your job as staff when the very rules you uphold are described specifically. Our rules on slurs/derogatories specifically and disrespect generally are "Racism is not allowed. Disrespect, harassment or trolling is not tolerated and may result in a punishment. Trolling is unallowed. (The definition of trolling is to the discretion of the moderator, and can include intentionally being annoying, antagonizing players, impersonation of staff members, spoiling the ending of games or movies, etc.)".  This leaves alot of option on what isn't allowed and what is up to personal discretion, which isn't the most trustworthy or respected at times, so revising it would define a clearer image of "don't say this". Makes most everyone's life easier.

+1 to revising the rules that speak of disrespect/combining them.

Neutral on banning any specific term(s).

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12 minutes ago, TheSupremePatriot said:

But why do people need to say it in the first place? What is gained out of saying a word that is offensive to people? What is the humor in it? The way I see it, there is absolutely nothing gained and there is no humor or comedic appeal to it.

And that is your view point, but clearly from the way it has been treated as well as other offensive words by a great deal of other people, not a universal opinion. 

14 minutes ago, TheSupremePatriot said:

If someone doesn’t want you to use a word because it offends them or makes them uncomfortable, you should respect it. No one should have to (client-side) mute anyone, it’s a thing called common courtesy... not that hard.

 

8 minutes ago, Nozomi said:

 Our clan/servers are suppose to make people feel welcomed, their suppose to have fun. They shouldn't have to worry that they'll be ridiculed or not. 

Why should someone be needlessly limited to what they can and can't use by grounds that they must be absolutely using it in a derogatory sense when the word is viewed by the greater part of society not to be limited in such a manner (While other derogatory slurs again such as nigger are, which is why they aren't allowed)? It also brings us right back to how there is any number of insults that people will feel ridiculed about and have similar connotation (autistic/retard) and trying to go through and censor every one of them is an implausible task. Only going through and limiting certain ones would only be doable by personal opinion and not actual view-ship of how the words are treated as we already do censor in that way, being those extreme taboo racial and ethnic slurs. Having an environment where people are going to be immune to ridicule is entirely impossible, which is why staff exist in the first place. Unless staff are incapable of maintaining this environment without imposing ever increasing strictness  on everyone, there's no reason to do this. Making people welcome goes both ways as well. People need to both be able to be treated with respect but also have the liberty to do as they please so long as they uphold this first part. If the time having faggot allowed has shown anything is that it is entirely plausible for the word to be used openly without violating that first aspect, otherwise it would have been cracked down on far sooner. 

 

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It's sad that we're paper-skinned anymore. Any water dumped on you and you guys shrivel up.
Can we just keep the basis that if someone is harassing someone, we punish them? Can we also keep in mind that the people are behind a monitor acting all tough; Literally ignore them. Punish them if they're harassing someone/you. How hard is that?

xG can be a welcoming place without being a Hitler with slurs. Obviously racial slurs are no good, but come on. 

If we ban the word faggot, we should ban weebs and furries alike.

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We're going to mold every single xG member into fucking SJWs at this point. We get offended over the slightest thing and the next thing you know, the guy who said "fucking faggot lmao" will be sent to the shadow realm.

Everything Goblin stated in his posts is fucking godly. Like, holy shit who sent this man? Stop being fucking babies when it comes to "offensive" words, seriously.

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