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QueenOfHearts

Censoring, Hypocrisy and Toxicity

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Posted (edited)

I'd be alright either way with this. I don't lose my mind whenever somebody says "faggot" or even the n word really, but that being said I still do ultimately think of it as being in poor taste and those words are mostly used as demeaning terms. And to those who say that it would be too opinionated to make these into official rules, the way I view it, we have quite a few laws in society that are, when you break it down, opinions. That being said and everything, I do think it might be better to keep things the way they are now. I wouldn't want people to stop coming to the server because it's too strict.

Edited by DiaperHyperWolf (see edit history)

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15 minutes ago, Krampus said:

Okay well I'ma just add my two cents into this thread and say that to be honest I have never cared too much bout being called it as a joke or hearing other people call each other faggot. The thing that I do care about is when people are out right trying to make someone feel bad and hurt them with it or any other form of slur which is where the no disrespect and harassment rule comes in to stop this, which is what we have done so far. Which is why in my opinion I'm okay with it being allowed since it's fine if some people wanna joke around with it or other stuff, as long as they aren't trying to to hurt someone with them. Plus there's the fact that we can't just go around banning every slur and making a list for it as there will always be new ones that aren't in the rules so I'd rather just leave it open.

Also, 

That's what it already is right now. I'm pretty sure at the moment all racial slurs are basically banned and we just punish them as we find them, and we didn't really make everything ironclad? People were just questioning over the spray rule so they clarified it to where basically nothing really too inappropriate is allowed, which is fine. The slur rule has been the same for a pretty long time now, which it doesn't really need a change imo since the problem this thread is discussing is already handled as racism isn't allowed in general, and for faggot and other slurs that would just go under disrespect if someone uses it in that way.

Yes, but what I'm saying is that, by making this push for moderation with less "subjectivity", which is a sentiment we've all seen echoed in the whole spray debacle multiple times, they've collectively screwed any stance where you want a moderator to make a subjective choice. What's the difference between calling someone a faggot and the big ol n bomb? Nothing really, they're both slurs, so if you've purported this goddamn binary where either something is allowed or it isn't, you can't be fůcking upset when people end up comparing like to like and wanting more slurs banned.

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5 hours ago, Elcark said:

Please ban every word in this list.

The terminology of a slur is incredibly broad, the concept of banning all slurs is not as simple as disallowing a small handful of words. Cunt is a genderphobic slur. Tranny is a sexual slur. Cheesehead and hillbilly are ethnic slurs. Disallowing the great variety of words that can easily be defined as a slur is something that has been in the community narrowed down to a number of notable ethnic slurs, but why is that? As far as I believe, expectations of behavior derived from societal norms. It is not uncommon to see a variety of words such as bitch and fag that can be defined as slurs be used openly to an extent they are words you can hear multiple times a day and nothing would be out of the norm. Breaking out some of the more notorious racial slurs such as chink, kike, or nigger are not something you will see used at all by a much greater extent and are viewed negatively practically universally. Ethnic slurs like this have a much stronger taboo rooted to them that sees even uttering them as unacceptable, a taboo which faggot does not have to the same extent. Famous pieces of literature such as "To Kill a Mocking Bird" and "Huckleberry finn" (and other works of Mark Twain I believe) have received such censorship over these slurs to see them banned from schools in more then one occasion, while this is not the case for sexual and gender slurs. To put it simply, faggot is just not seen negatively to the same extent as the aforementioned racial and ethnic slurs by society as a whole. 

The etymology of the word faggot has received harsher criticism over time of course, but so have a great many. Autistic is very often used in an equally negative sense and is viewed harshly because of this. The same goes for retard, though to a much greater extent in recent times to the point the word is discouraged to be used entirely in some places even when not used in a direct negative way. Banning faggot would be hypocritical in itself if we did not take into consideration other words that exist on similar levels of disdain within society these days, but what is the likely hood that this community is going to view such words in such an extreme light?

This community has spent at least two years functioning fine in this same mindset that faggot does not necessarily quantify the same connotation as the racial slurs we don't allow. It by all means can and is used in an insulting and disrespectful manner, just like practically anything can, and the situations that this happens have always been handled appropriately without having to resort to such an extremity as this. The only reason I would personally feel it is a necessary act would be if we believed either the community was incapable of behaving in a mature enough manner to use this word without absolutely meaning it to be derogatory or if it was believed our staff were incapable of properly knowing how to differentiate between the two cases. Otherwise, it is straight up a matter of constraints on the entire population for the personal felt benefit of a smaller portion. The phrasing "xG is becoming safe space" is an extreme way of expressing it's intended concept, but in this case at it's root that phrasing is entirely accurate. 

8

The thing is most of these have developed new meanings and are not taken as insults by anyone. A few of these words are currently banned and a few more of them I can agree on banning. This list is not all things that are offensive but could be in some context. I would support banning autistic as an insult or midget, or Vegetable (window licker though hmm). These are words that hurt people, and really a general "No slurs, no derogatory slang" rule would work great. But I feel coming down and nitpicking that  "oh  my great aunts best friends sister found this offensive" does not help the case as the words we are discussing her do have a strong negative presence in today's society and I think we should have a tighter rein on them

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11 minutes ago, VinylScratch said:

The thing is most of these have developed new meanings and are not taken as insults by anyone. A few of these words are currently banned and a few more of them I can agree on banning. This list is not all things that are offensive but could be in some context. I would support banning autistic as an insult or midget, or Vegetable (window licker though hmm). These are words that hurt people, and really a general "No slurs, no derogatory slang" rule would work great. But I feel coming down and nitpicking that  "oh  my great aunts best friends sister found this offensive" does not help the case as the words we are discussing her do have a strong negative presence in today's society and I think we should have a tighter rein on them

We're trying too hard at this point. There's literally no benefit to banning people from saying words like autistic or other such words unless they specifically offend people, and that's basically the whole premise for the word faggot too.

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3 minutes ago, Kypari said:

We're trying too hard at this point. There's literally no benefit to banning people from saying words like autistic or other such words unless they specifically offend people, and that's basically the whole premise for the word faggot too.

I can agree with that. It was more of a counterpoint to "ban all these words too then". I think we should really ban words made with the sole purpose to offend, and when are not used for that reason are used because kids thinks its cool funny and edgy to use such words

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I had to pause my game cause I pointed something out to Hyper in DMs and he pointed something out to me.

My point was, if we ban this word, which we shouldn't. It'll make people want to say it more. Stupid shit like that always happens.

And, he pointed out that if we do ban it, it could cause more people to leave.

 

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Also just to point out, I'm pretty sure faggot at one point was a banned word, and I'm fairly certain I've seen people punished for "Dyke", so saying "Yeah but no racial slurs and everything else on a subjective basis is how we do things and have always done things" isn't even correct. We don't even follow that consistently.

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I doubt people would leave over banning a word (which still shouldn’t be banned). It’ll just leave a disgusting taste in a decent amount of the population’s mouth.

Queen, can I ask if there was previous incidents where you were attacked by players using “faggot”?

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2 minutes ago, Goblins said:

I doubt people would leave over banning a word (which still shouldn’t be banned). It’ll just leave a disgusting taste in a decent amount of the population’s mouth.

Queen, can I ask if there was previous incidents where you were attacked by players using “faggot”?

A few people on the server were, I included, yes

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-1 mostly since people need to learn to relax and ignore someone if they're saying words they don't like. If someone is going out of their way to harass someone else with the terms then yeah, punish them for that, but if simply seeing the word 'faggot' or so on causes you to stop functioning or just start hyperventilating then I don't know how you survive browsing the internet, unless you confine yourself to xG servers and sites only. It's not the same as going to a workspace in real life or being stuck around actual people that are tormenting you or calling you those things and whatever else, it's just people playing on a video game server.

Plus, if you ban one thing you may as well start banning every other offensive word now that could be deemed rude or mean towards a group of people, or just anything rude altogether, servers are already pretty strict compared to some others with how it's currently ran, don't think they need to be made even more strict, just deal out punishments to the individual people that are trying to harass rather than limiting more words for everyone. Don't want this to become something like Twitter where you can't breathe without someone losing their minds.

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1 minute ago, Sesh said:

 

Plus, if you ban one thing you may as wel start banning every other offensive word now that could be deemed rude or mean towards a group of people, or just anything rude altogether

 

But we already started that, with slurs, why not just complete the job? Faggot is about on the same level as the n-word, it is just used more because homophobia has been an ok thing for a much longer time

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First of all, YIKES.

I personally hate everything about censorship. It's wrong. If someone wants to be an edgy fuckwad, that's their thing, and they put up with the consequences of being disliked by everyone. If they're toxic, yes, that's different and they should be punished.

In this day and age, anybody can get offended by ANYTHING. Are we going to ban the english dictionary? No, that'd be dumb. If I get offended by the word "bean" because it "sounds like beaner" it doesn't mean shit. Are we going to ban the word "vegetable" from every context because in one certain context it means disabled? No. Context matters, but with controversial words like this, nobody ever looks at the context, they just look at the word and cry "hey that guy's a bigot!". Oh yeah, at this point let's also ban the word "bigot" because that offends people too. (let's actually not though because censorship is bad)

People joke around with others all the time, in fact if you've ever seen actual stand up comedians most of them say cultural insensitive shit (but mostly now they just make fun of white people like if that's any more okay). People seem to find it just as funny to make fun of white people and christianity (not religion as a whole because from what I've seen people only find it funny to make fun of christianity) and it seems okay to them but you're immediately crossing the line when it's LGBT or the African-American community (not even race, the only skin colour you're not allowed to make fun of is black). Obviously if someone is saying it to be an asswipe that's not ok but nobody would agree with them anyways. I know that some people can easily pull out the "it was a joke" card but most of the time they really mean no harm, and for the word "fag" from what I've seen most people don't ever use it in the context of "homosexual". It's almost like back in fourth grade where if any kid ever said the word "black" in ANY context, someone would say "that's racist". These words mean what you want them to mean.

At what point are we going to ban all swear words and eventually remove all communication?

-1 to the ban of the word
+1 to the removal of censorship

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If people say one of the few words that are objectively bad in 90%+ of contexts they should be warned/chat filtered and muted or gagged if they continue. For everything else though, just have staff use judgement. a statement in passing probably doesn't matter unless repeated or taken specific offense to, and personal attacks whether using bad words or not should already be being punished. Just my two cents.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Arnude said:

Other can choose to be offended by the word, and that's perfectly fine.

They're not a baby if they choose to be hurt by a word. Making fun of them for disliking a certain word/being called it is just immature.

image.png.12b090d7b848c2f0834b3b996d5dece2.png

 

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How do you "choose" to be offfended by words? You just are. If you can choose, then just choose to not be offended. Easy, right!?

Edited by Dannypicacho (see edit history)

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I agree 100% with @Elcark and @Kypari. It has never been an issue in the past, faggot should NOT be considered on equal terms as the N word, or Sp*c, or other racially offensive terms. This is a video gaming community, if someone says to their friend "shut up faggot", I am not interested in punishing him as he does not deserve a punishment. If he is being disrespectful, follow the guide on that. 

We are not a SJW clan, and we are not a safe space. We have rules for a reason, but we also understand that we are in an online gaming community, we want people to have fun, and we don't want to find trouble where it doesn't need to be found. If you honestly think someone saying faggot could ruin our servers, then we have other issues in my honest opinion.

I'm telling you right now, unless I see overwhelming support from our community, I refuse to make our servers a safe space as it is more trouble than it is worth.

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