Confusing rules about !vote

[james8470 160]

So, a few days ago @Krampus and @ABlueSkittle123 and me had a bit of a discussion regarding the use of !vote. I was in the wrong, but it occurred to me that something or another was messed up about our rules about !vote, so I did some reading and now I've got two suggestions for improving our rules regarding !vote. Here's what is written in the donator guidebook about !vote:

• If you want to do anything that affects gameplay or other people on the server, make a vote for it first and only proceed if the vote passes with 70% or more Yes votes (some examples are things like using !gimme to give yourself valve weapons or the HHHH and killing people with it)
• Follow this template while calling a vote: !vote "question" "No" "Yes".
• Use !vote before spawning any of the bosses.
• The vote must have 70% wanting the boss to be spawned.
• When you are making a vote for things such as boss spawning, make No the first option and Yes the second option. (/vote "Spawn the HHH?" no yes)

 

Okay, so from these rules it looks like the first option must always be "No" and the second option "Yes", and votes must be called for spawning bosses and becoming " the HHHH and killing people with it". Cool.

 

Krampus told me that you have to call a vote to become a boss and not just to attack people. However, the rule book implies that you DON'T need to call a vote to become a boss, you only need to call a vote to attack people as a boss.

You can see this in the first bullet point listed above, and it is also implied in the following guideline from the rule book: 

If you want to do anything that affects gameplay or other people on the server, make a vote for it first and only proceed if the vote passes with 70% or more Yes votes (some examples are things like using !gimme to give yourself valve weapons or the HHHH and killing people with it)

Turning into bosses (!bemerasmus @me !behhh !bedeflector)

• Don't rebel or attack people while using these unless you go through a vote

 

However, this implication is contradicted.

 

!vote (Toggles a vote in the servers. Necessary for spawning and becoming bosses)

 

Okay, so here it is explicitly stated that a !vote is needed to become a boss. So, I suggest that the misleading contradictions be removed. It's as easy as deleting "and killing people with it" from  "[becoming] the HHHH and killing people with it".

 

But there's another thing about !vote which bothers me. Why the "No" before "Yes" rule? I imagine it's to prevent people from mindlessly mashing "1" and selecting yes in a somewhat accidental fashion. But really, all this does is create more confusion if you ask me. The majority of our players are familiar with SM and are well aware that "Yes" comes before "No" - and it just makes sense. But it doesn't really matter what I think about this, in fact just forget I said any of it because I know we'll end up keeping this rule anyways - there's probably a good reason for it.

 

However, @Krampus also told me that you need to put "No" before "Yes" for ANY vote. So, If I make a vote like this: sm_vote "Do you like cats?" I have to put "No" before "Yes". WHY? I don't think putting "No" before "Yes" makes any sense at all in this case. Why is it a rule? And I know it is technically stated:

Follow this template while calling a vote: !vote "question" "No" "Yes".

But this isn't a vote which affects gameplay... I just don't get it. Also, what Krampus told me seems to run contrary to this bullet point: When you are making a vote for things such as boss spawning, make No the first option and Yes the second option. (/vote "Spawn the HHH?" no yes)

 

So here's my second suggestion: If we cant' remove the "No" before "Yes" rule, make it so it only applies to votes which actually affect gameplay and not to silly meme votes, and furthermore why not just edit the SM config files (if possible) so that when someone does sm_vote "Do you like cats?" it automatically puts "No" before "Yes". This system would improve the TF2 servers a lot if we're going to stick with this "No" before "Yes" rule.

 

TL:DR: I'm making two suggestions

1) Remove confusing contradictions about becoming bosses/attacking people as a boss from the donator rule book.

2) Change the rules regarding "No" before "Yes" to only apply to votes which actually affect gameplay.- * Also possibly modify SM config so that it automatically places "No" before "Yes" when a vote is called.

[Krampus 42]

I think you misunderstood me here kek, I told you that you must always have the no before yes in a vote for votes that specifically break rules or spawn a boss like lets say "let someone read a story on mic" or "spawn a boss" not that you always need it for any vote whatsoever so that rule is already fine kek.

Also the main reason why we have that rule from my guess is that if you're playing the game and a donator randomly makes a vote for it and you just want the menu off your screen then you're most likely gonna just auto hit one, which they would rather have it where the vote passes if a majority of the server votes for it, even with the odds against them from people auto hitting one, which is used to make sure that the server for sure wants it.

For the hhh incident the other day, I had yelled at the guy since he had made a vote to become hhh and it only passed with 50% or something and he still changed anyway so I thought he was confused and was gonna attack someone so I was making sure that he wasn't bout to go attack people which is what I thought you were going on about. But anyway about becoming hhh and not attacking people without vote I'm pretty sure it's fine but you have to be careful not spook anyone or attack them accidentally.

[james8470 160]

Oh

 

 

But there's still some hypocritical stuff in the rule book which I'd like to see removed if possible :U

[Tekk 272]

14 minutes ago, james8470 said:

But there's still some hypocritical stuff in the rule book which I'd like to see removed if possible :U

What are you referring to here?

[james8470 160]

@Tekage

Sorry, I know what I wrote was confusing. 

The rule book seemingly contradicts itself regarding if a vote is needed to become a boss, or just to attack people as a boss. You see?

!vote (Toggles a vote in the servers. Necessary for spawning and becoming bosses)

"[becoming] the HHHH and killing people with it".

Turning into bosses (!bemerasmus @me !behhh !bedeflector)

• Don't rebel or attack people while using these unless you go through a vote

 

 

[Tekk 272]

16 minutes ago, james8470 said:

@Tekage

Sorry, I know what I wrote was confusing. 

The rule book seemingly contradicts itself regarding if a vote is needed to become a boss, or just to attack people as a boss. You see?

!vote (Toggles a vote in the servers. Necessary for spawning and becoming bosses)

 "[becoming] the HHHH and killing people with it".

 Turning into bosses (!bemerasmus @me !behhh !bedeflector)

• Don't rebel or attack people while using these unless you go through a vote

 

 

A main concern would be the fact that people as some bosses can accidentally put the players into the spook stun. Though I do see what you mean, this needs to be edited into more detail to avoid confusion.

[james8470 160]

7 minutes ago, Tekage said:

A main concern would be the fact that people as some bosses can accidentally put the players into the spook stun. Though I do see what you mean, this needs to be edited into more detail to avoid confusion.

Yeah, I have accidentally spooked people myself.  Glad you see what I mean.

According to Krampus, the rule is that you don't need to call a vote to become a boss (you only need to do so to attack people).

Personally, I don't really care whichever way you staff members end up going on that particular rule, I just don't want to get rick rolled by staff members who each enforce rules which contradict each other (this has happened a few times before).