Criticism: Let It Flow

List of who was in the convo (forum names):

 

Hidingmaster

Dr. Lee

Penguino

Diabeetus

Dethman

kbraszzz

metalslug

Moosty

Nom

Rejects

Ohstopyou

Silence

 

Still not a bad mix.

 

Also if you really think you're on to something with the biasness, by all means lay it out for us; show us who was biased towards who.

 

Double Jeopardy issue I can agree with you, but I also see how some people were let continue on well past when they should of.

so you agree with double jeopardy what about the fact this is all retroactive bans? as far as bias goes, dethman is known to have beef with iggy (see threads at bottom) by going out of his way to find things he thinks are wrong (remember the definition of trolling being going out of your way to maliciously do something to someone?) with iggy and use them against him. Nomulous in general is semi-distant with the community and in previous issues he has tended to take the side of the majority here, however i haven't seen the actual convos, i'm buttuming he did that here. Moosty is probably the one closest to friendly they have there being relatively not mad at the light bm given in previous instances. CLs are CLs. some of you stick to the majority opinion (see recent shit storms and your action, pleasing the masses is how it looks on the outside instead of pleasing both sides by getting the bad on both for the most part) Silence has no clue about the community. kbraszz has been known to take a similar opinion to bach who has been known to not like vector much. metalslug (scoot?) is one of the staff that was "trolled by vector". ohstopyou also has been known to be anti-them in recent threads shitstorms/"talk about who you don't like while they take it because we are the le mass so we cant get banned if we just call everything they do against us trolling/disrespect even if we do it to them" threads.

pretty sure that covers most people when it comes to bias towards the "tier 1 aka perm on sight" people

btw, here are the most recent member protests/ban requests on them which all already had some form of closure whether it be an action taken on them or a lack of action based on the decision that no punishment was necessary.

Iggy Iggs | Xeno Gamers

[xg:a] Vector | Xeno Gamers take a look at the dates on this and the next one, which are the most recent for vector they are almost a year ago. there has been no significant issue since, granted he isn't worthy of his admin back yet, he isn't what should reasonably be deemed a problem worthy of a ban imo

[xg:a] Vector - Team Fortress 2 | Xeno Gamers

added note, this is the same idea as my comment over on the end result of the iggy thread.

If this is a safe place to respectfully air out xG related personal grievances against other players, then I will do that now.

@Kypari first off I don't think you're a bad mod, and that you follow the rules to a T. But, for the purpose of being open and honest, you should know I wanted you on tier 3 and warned. This had nothing to do with anything wrong you had done, but everything to do with how you present yourself on the forums, and how you're hyper strict interpretation of the rules can negatively impact the general mood of a server. We had that problem a couple of days ago for example, when I rounded up some server regulars who hadn't been back since late 2013 for the most part. They asked me if they could try do an immature thing we all used to do on mic (change your name to some generic teenager name, then whine about how bad the life of your character is. It sounds really stupid, but it's beautiful with 32 people doimg at once) I allowed them to try it, watched chat closely to make sure the server was ok with it, and once I saw that they were, and that randoms were joining in, I changed my name to christie, and started whining about how brad dumped me because I'm too fat. (@Bach was in on some of these back in the day, he'll prove it's not as stupid as it sounds, or atleast that it was fun)

Then Kypari comes in, and is unsurprisingly shocked and confused that a dm is letting all of this micspam happen, and derides me to put my tags on, I believe an "or I'll tell kbraszz" was uttered(thats another personal issue I have with kypari, taking your personal battles to the higher ups rather than fighting them yourself). Then I put edgy pseudo tags on [xGizzle:DMizzle] which honestly was pretty rude, I was obviously doing it to irritate him, it worked, situations didn't improve, I should have put on valid tags and been done with it. I then explained the situation, he didn't get it because rules were being knowingly broken with no punishment from the moderating staff. and when his attitude in the server killed the mood and people stopped playing along I tell my friends the old regulars (we were in a skype call) to stop doing it, they do,first ask, problem solved. Except kypari isn't happy because people haven't been formally punished. So he mutes two of the guys for using the fake voice to say like a syllable over the mic. And tries to undermine my authority on the server by making an ultimatum against talking in csay, even though I, as a DM, had allowed the behavior to continue, and had put a stop to it with nothing more than a verbal warning.

My main problem with you kypari is that you interpret the rules as absolute fact, you leave no wiggle room for harmless fun, you think enforcing rules means only your powers as a mod count as enforcement. But warning and having a #realtalk with a rule breaker is so much more effective than going straight to slay or mute once you've given your generic indifferent warning. As for your actions on the forums, you obviously hold strong personal beliefs, it's made painfully obvious by how you treat those who disagree with you, constant bad ratings, being rude sometimes, laughing them off as stupid the other times. You act like only the people you want to be banned should be banned. You act like only the maps you want should be added. This is getting long so I'm gonna finish it off with this, you would be so much more valuable to the community if you learned how to compromise, and lighten up a bit. I've seen a lot of staff that don't take their jobs seriously, they were bad staff and got demoted. You have the opposite issue, you take the job WAY too seriously. Lighten up a bit, moderating shouldn't keep you from having fun, and it really doesn't seem like you're having fun whenever you're on a server moderating.

Sorry this was so long. I hadn't written after taking an ambien before. The ideas flow real quick it turns out. Hopefully this was somewhat coherent.

-Edit i didnt read what forest said in his post and just read the red text, whoops

-CENSORED BE CAREFUL WHEN READING TRIGGER WARNING-

So just want to address some things.

1. Chicken nuggets from McDonalds are amazing.

2. In relation to....

If this is a safe place to respectfully air out xG related personal grievances against other players, then I will do that now.

 

@Kypari They asked me if they could try do an immature thing we all used to do on mic (change your name to some generic teenager name, then whine about how bad the life of your character is. It sounds really stupid, but it's beautiful with 32 people doimg at once) I allowed them to try it, watched chat closely to make sure the server was ok with it, and once I saw that they were, and that randoms were joining in, I changed my name to christie, and started whining about how brad dumped me because I'm too fat. (@Bach was in on some of these back in the day, he'll prove it's not as stupid as it sounds, or atleast that it was fun)

.

Hell yeah I remember that. I was Tiffany pretty sure. It was ABSOLUTELY stupid but everyone did it because it was fun. It embraced what video games are meant to be. Fun. Like earlier yesterday(?) When a bunch of TF2 members, myself, @Barmithian and a few CL's were on TF2 dodgeball and slender just having fun. We were all screaming and laughing and having a good time. It's things like this that give me hope still for xG

3.

the only real ban on the list i saw was @Bach for the hacking thing, while i disagree that he wasn't banned based on our rules that he shouldn't have, i see the good intention behind it. (note: batman has good intentions about being a vigilante but the police hunted him/technically are supposed to arrest him even in current comics where he works with commisioner gordon; they don't because he helps a lot).

@Chrono basically called me Batman. GG

4. Back on topic, this "toxicity cleanse" was needed. All bullshit aside. Regardless or not if there were worse people, something needed to be done. Even myself I was getting out of hand. Chrono has a point though with the retroactive bans, but thats just me. For the future we should be starting to get more strict with punishments so people DON'T get a million second chances. (And maybe remove the "how to get unbanned thread, as funny as it is). Treat it like any other ban. "Warn, mute/gag/silence, kick, ban" kinda format. Works for the most part in TF2. And let's be honest. Everyone in TF2 is a retard to some extent.

(Also here's my standard Randy Savage part of my post)

Teenagers (or rather those under 15) getting moderator was one of the worst decisions. The only way I have ever gotten their attention in TF2 servers was actively saying furries were mentally damaged and needed therapy, or that British people need to be wiped off of the face of the earth. The TF2 division is full of kiddies who censor you if you want to make a joke, no matter if it's in poor taste, or get butthurt too easily if they're the butt end of the joke. The Leader doesn't care about the quality of the players, so as long as you give him money or watch his ads. The kiddies themselves are entitled, 14 years old, complaining about ever little detail. I got threatened with a permaban the other day for dominating a member, going into friendly and taunting them. The Co-Leaders do nothing about complaints and instead post these bullshit threads every few months, saying "We need to talk", then never acting on it. One of the Co-Leaders is even VAC banned and he's still in.

And you dare ask "Why is the clan so bad lately?"

Find your rectum and remove your head immediately

You have nobody but yourselves to blame. You let in the trolls, the crybabies and the mentally challenged drama queens, and as soon as they do something major, you ask "Why is the clan so bad?" Take a good hard look at yourselves, and maybe you'll find the answer. Until then, stop complaining you dumbasses.

16Y/O requirement to get in clan

18Y/O requirement to be staff

If this is a safe place to respectfully air out xG related personal grievances against other players, then I will do that now.

 

@Kypari first off I don't think you're a bad mod, and that you follow the rules to a T. But, for the purpose of being open and honest, you should know I wanted you on tier 3 and warned. This had nothing to do with anything wrong you had done, but everything to do with how you present yourself on the forums, and how you're hyper strict interpretation of the rules can negatively impact the general mood of a server. We had that problem a couple of days ago for example, when I rounded up some server regulars who hadn't been back since late 2013 for the most part. They asked me if they could try do an immature thing we all used to do on mic (change your name to some generic teenager name, then whine about how bad the life of your character is. It sounds really stupid, but it's beautiful with 32 people doimg at once) I allowed them to try it, watched chat closely to make sure the server was ok with it, and once I saw that they were, and that randoms were joining in, I changed my name to christie, and started whining about how brad dumped me because I'm too fat. (@Bach was in on some of these back in the day, he'll prove it's not as stupid as it sounds, or atleast that it was fun)

 

Then Kypari comes in, and is unsurprisingly shocked and confused that a dm is letting all of this micspam happen, and derides me to put my tags on, I believe an "or I'll tell kbraszz" was uttered(thats another personal issue I have with kypari, taking your personal battles to the higher ups rather than fighting them yourself). Then I put edgy pseudo tags on [xGizzle:DMizzle] which honestly was pretty rude, I was obviously doing it to irritate him, it worked, situations didn't improve, I should have put on valid tags and been done with it. I then explained the situation, he didn't get it because rules were being knowingly broken with no punishment from the moderating staff. and when his attitude in the server killed the mood and people stopped playing along I tell my friends the old regulars (we were in a skype call) to stop doing it, they do,first ask, problem solved. Except kypari isn't happy because people haven't been formally punished. So he mutes two of the guys for using the fake voice to say like a syllable over the mic. And tries to undermine my authority on the server by making an ultimatum against talking in csay, even though I, as a DM, had allowed the behavior to continue, and had put a stop to it with nothing more than a verbal warning.

 

My main problem with you kypari is that you interpret the rules as absolute fact, you leave no wiggle room for harmless fun, you think enforcing rules means only your powers as a mod count as enforcement. But warning and having a #realtalk with a rule breaker is so much more effective than going straight to slay or mute once you've given your generic indifferent warning. As for your actions on the forums, you obviously hold strong personal beliefs, it's made painfully obvious by how you treat those who disagree with you, constant bad ratings, being rude sometimes, laughing them off as stupid the other times. You act like only the people you want to be banned should be banned. You act like only the maps you want should be added. This is getting long so I'm gonna finish it off with this, you would be so much more valuable to the community if you learned how to compromise, and lighten up a bit. I've seen a lot of staff that don't take their jobs seriously, they were bad staff and got demoted. You have the opposite issue, you take the job WAY too seriously. Lighten up a bit, moderating shouldn't keep you from having fun, and it really doesn't seem like you're having fun whenever you're on a server moderating.

 

 

Sorry this was so long. I hadn't written after taking an ambien before. The ideas flow real quick it turns out. Hopefully this was somewhat coherent.

If this is a safe place to respectfully air out xG related personal grievances against other players, then I will do that now.

 

@Kypari first off I don't think you're a bad mod, and that you follow the rules to a T. But, for the purpose of being open and honest, you should know I wanted you on tier 3 and warned. This had nothing to do with anything wrong you had done, but everything to do with how you present yourself on the forums, and how you're hyper strict interpretation of the rules can negatively impact the general mood of a server. We had that problem a couple of days ago for example, when I rounded up some server regulars who hadn't been back since late 2013 for the most part. They asked me if they could try do an immature thing we all used to do on mic (change your name to some generic teenager name, then whine about how bad the life of your character is. It sounds really stupid, but it's beautiful with 32 people doimg at once) I allowed them to try it, watched chat closely to make sure the server was ok with it, and once I saw that they were, and that randoms were joining in, I changed my name to christie, and started whining about how brad dumped me because I'm too fat. (@Bach was in on some of these back in the day, he'll prove it's not as stupid as it sounds, or atleast that it was fun)

 

Then Kypari comes in, and is unsurprisingly shocked and confused that a dm is letting all of this micspam happen, and derides me to put my tags on, I believe an "or I'll tell kbraszz" was uttered(thats another personal issue I have with kypari, taking your personal battles to the higher ups rather than fighting them yourself). Then I put edgy pseudo tags on [xGizzle:DMizzle] which honestly was pretty rude, I was obviously doing it to irritate him, it worked, situations didn't improve, I should have put on valid tags and been done with it. I then explained the situation, he didn't get it because rules were being knowingly broken with no punishment from the moderating staff. and when his attitude in the server killed the mood and people stopped playing along I tell my friends the old regulars (we were in a skype call) to stop doing it, they do,first ask, problem solved. Except kypari isn't happy because people haven't been formally punished. So he mutes two of the guys for using the fake voice to say like a syllable over the mic. And tries to undermine my authority on the server by making an ultimatum against talking in csay, even though I, as a DM, had allowed the behavior to continue, and had put a stop to it with nothing more than a verbal warning.

 

My main problem with you kypari is that you interpret the rules as absolute fact, you leave no wiggle room for harmless fun, you think enforcing rules means only your powers as a mod count as enforcement. But warning and having a #realtalk with a rule breaker is so much more effective than going straight to slay or mute once you've given your generic indifferent warning. As for your actions on the forums, you obviously hold strong personal beliefs, it's made painfully obvious by how you treat those who disagree with you, constant bad ratings, being rude sometimes, laughing them off as stupid the other times. You act like only the people you want to be banned should be banned. You act like only the maps you want should be added. This is getting long so I'm gonna finish it off with this, you would be so much more valuable to the community if you learned how to compromise, and lighten up a bit. I've seen a lot of staff that don't take their jobs seriously, they were bad staff and got demoted. You have the opposite issue, you take the job WAY too seriously. Lighten up a bit, moderating shouldn't keep you from having fun, and it really doesn't seem like you're having fun whenever you're on a server moderating.

 

 

Sorry this was so long. I hadn't written after taking an ambien before. The ideas flow real quick it turns out. Hopefully this was somewhat coherent.

So...wait, you're mad at him for following the rules too well? Because that's what it looks like.

There was something like what you did in the past, people changed their names and all started doing the same stuff(micspamming), because a higher ups allowed it(there's a video on xG YouTube of what happened, not sure if it includes the end. It was called MEM).

What happened at the end? A Co-Leader at the time(Serbian) got on and started banning people for it. Which is a lot more serious than him muting the 2 people.

Just because you said they could break the rules, doesn't mean they can. If you said they could all start mass free killing(if it was JB), that doesn't mean you can.

Staff can enforce the rules strict if they want, since it is still written there, the rules doesn't say "No micspamming, unless a DM says so."

Also, you said he should handle his own problems, instead of reporting it to kbrazz, isn't that why we have report abuses? Mods have no power over a DM, so what else can he do?

Forest, we need to work as a community to get through all of the stupid bullshit that has been happening to this clan. xG needs to end toxicity and if that means kicking people out and making people scared of doing it then so be it. We needed to take action or else it would get to the point of people just being assholes on the servers and making us look like Jiggly's Fun House server. We should be taking out the trolls and not protecting them like a bunch of pussies. People are community leaders for a reason, they fix the problems instead of letting them happen. We can start the end of the toxicity right now instead of procrastinating and letting it get worse. Toxicity is not the only thing that needs to be fixed but it is a start. I don't drama in any other clan and most have more people then us.

Chrono, yes i had some beef with iggy but that was a long ass time ago and we let our personal differences aside. Iggy and I were good friends and it sucked putting his name on the list but if you actually witnessed what he was doing instead of complaining about it you would have agreed with the decision. With vector, he was an ass on the servers and teamspeak, not the forums. He would harass little kids and troll people on the servers and even told people to kill themselves numerous times and stated "All furries should honestly be killed." We should not have to deal with that on our servers.

TL:;DR

People needed to go

People need to stop trolling

Vector was bad

Iggy was bad

Chrono is smelly

Lets work together on making xG a better place

If this is a safe place to respectfully air out xG related personal grievances against other players, then I will do that now.

 

@Kypari first off I don't think you're a bad mod, and that you follow the rules to a T. But, for the purpose of being open and honest, you should know I wanted you on tier 3 and warned. This had nothing to do with anything wrong you had done, but everything to do with how you present yourself on the forums, and how you're hyper strict interpretation of the rules can negatively impact the general mood of a server. We had that problem a couple of days ago for example, when I rounded up some server regulars who hadn't been back since late 2013 for the most part. They asked me if they could try do an immature thing we all used to do on mic (change your name to some generic teenager name, then whine about how bad the life of your character is. It sounds really stupid, but it's beautiful with 32 people doimg at once) I allowed them to try it, watched chat closely to make sure the server was ok with it, and once I saw that they were, and that randoms were joining in, I changed my name to christie, and started whining about how brad dumped me because I'm too fat. (@Bach was in on some of these back in the day, he'll prove it's not as stupid as it sounds, or atleast that it was fun)

 

Then Kypari comes in, and is unsurprisingly shocked and confused that a dm is letting all of this micspam happen, and derides me to put my tags on, I believe an "or I'll tell kbraszz" was uttered(thats another personal issue I have with kypari, taking your personal battles to the higher ups rather than fighting them yourself). Then I put edgy pseudo tags on [xGizzle:DMizzle] which honestly was pretty rude, I was obviously doing it to irritate him, it worked, situations didn't improve, I should have put on valid tags and been done with it. I then explained the situation, he didn't get it because rules were being knowingly broken with no punishment from the moderating staff. and when his attitude in the server killed the mood and people stopped playing along I tell my friends the old regulars (we were in a skype call) to stop doing it, they do,first ask, problem solved. Except kypari isn't happy because people haven't been formally punished. So he mutes two of the guys for using the fake voice to say like a syllable over the mic. And tries to undermine my authority on the server by making an ultimatum against talking in csay, even though I, as a DM, had allowed the behavior to continue, and had put a stop to it with nothing more than a verbal warning.

 

My main problem with you kypari is that you interpret the rules as absolute fact, you leave no wiggle room for harmless fun, you think enforcing rules means only your powers as a mod count as enforcement. But warning and having a #realtalk with a rule breaker is so much more effective than going straight to slay or mute once you've given your generic indifferent warning. As for your actions on the forums, you obviously hold strong personal beliefs, it's made painfully obvious by how you treat those who disagree with you, constant bad ratings, being rude sometimes, laughing them off as stupid the other times. You act like only the people you want to be banned should be banned. You act like only the maps you want should be added. This is getting long so I'm gonna finish it off with this, you would be so much more valuable to the community if you learned how to compromise, and lighten up a bit. I've seen a lot of staff that don't take their jobs seriously, they were bad staff and got demoted. You have the opposite issue, you take the job WAY too seriously. Lighten up a bit, moderating shouldn't keep you from having fun, and it really doesn't seem like you're having fun whenever you're on a server moderating.

 

 

Sorry this was so long. I hadn't written after taking an ambien before. The ideas flow real quick it turns out. Hopefully this was somewhat coherent.

Are you fucking serious? You wanted to put me onto tier 3 because I was doing my job?

What really got me is that I had to tell A DM what to do. I'm only a moderator, and even you couldn't follow your owns rules. Id

So...wait, you're mad at him for following the rules too well? Because that's what it looks like.

That's exactly what it is. I was telling him how to do his job.

Here is the argument I had saved:

[MEDIA=imgur]vcMowpq[/MEDIA]

It's pretty lengthy.

I'm still annoyed about that.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Right then, my turn.

@ASock You aren't funny, never have been. Get yourself a life you worthless piece of shit. The only reason you haven't been banned yet is because you are liked by the CL's. Just get banned already pls.

@Brian You're racist scum that doesn't deserve to be able to access these forums. I don't care for you nor do I want your negative presence here.

@Moosty You don't do your job and you have a go at me? What is with you? You're higher-up than me in the staff roster and you can't even follow the rules yourself. You friends were disrespectful to me and you just let it happen as if you didn't have staff powers at all. Do your job already.

@Bach I used to like you, but now look. You've disliked me this entire time and I feel betrayed. I didn't like what you said about me being annoying at all - it really hurt. I guess I was wrong about you being a good guy. Your post is even in my signature and was my status I was that distraught because I thought of you as a nice guy.

@SupremeWolf Shut up. Literally, that's all I can say.

Everyone else is pretty much alright in my book, not that anyone cares.

@kbraszzz Stop ignoring me pl0x

@Ohstopyou HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOUR DAD

@metalslug53 yer2kwl

@Rejects Can confirm is a good guy

That's about it. Sorry for the long message.

@Dethman There can't be any communication if everyone is gonna be at each other's throats...

Are you fricking serious? You wanted to put me onto tier 3 because I was doing my job?

What really got me is that I had to tell A DM what to do. I'm only a moderator, and even you couldn't follow your owns rules. Id

 

That's exactly what it is. I was telling him how to do his job.

Here is the argument I had saved:

[MEDIA=imgur]vcMowpq[/MEDIA]

It's pretty lengthy.

I'm still annoyed about that.

I was there and saw it all unfold. I frankly don't give a fuck whether your friends and you thought it was funny. The fact of the matter is that they were trolling, and YOU were part of it.

My go:

Now, I think the entire Toxicity Thread was justified and did xG a huge favour. I know I left the clan; I have no regrets. But that doesn't mean I don't want to get rid of the cancer that has been affecting this place for too long. I was asked who I thought should leave, and I don't care about admitting that. I even said myself "xG is worse than 4chan.". Dethman claimed it to be the most powerful quote he's ever heard. I'm not here to rant about the clan, but what I personally feel is that the fact that more than half of the clan don't even go onto the forums should mean that there should be votes and polls for each division. So you could get a ban from TF2, but not the forums. The fact that not many people know who others like Asock are is the very reason he hasn't been banned, as I see it. I know that next time he instigates anything he gets permed, but what I say still stands. I'm not only talking about him, but he's just one of the assholes I can think of from the top of my head.

There are other people more deserving of a punishment who are not on that list which I won't say who they are.

16Y/O requirement to get in clan

18Y/O requirement to be staff

Please.

Please.

Please.

I'm a tiny bit messed up from getting my wisdom teeth extracted today, but I feel the need to say something before I go into a drug induced coma. Sorry if this sounds scatterbrained.

Yes, the TF2 leadership and Dethman were in that conversation; however, we compiled the list of people that should be taken into question from asking the community as well as their complaints against them. That, combined with recent experiences, were forwarded along to the CL's and L's who then decided what should be done. Aka, we didn't come up with this tiered system.

Many opinions and facts were expressed and discussed. Also, not everyone was punished, even if they were pointed out by the community.

Sorry to have to make an example of someone. Asock was mentioned numerous, numerous times; however, due to recent warnings and understandings that were met, he was disregarded as needing punishment.

TL; DR. The Tf2 staff and Dethman merely collected information from the community and added further input about recent experiences. The punishments were decided by the CL's and L's, and then agreed upon by everyone in the conversation.

BRB going 2 pass out

After reading through this (and one other post by @Chrono ) I see the error of our ways and I want to re-evaluate the punishments handed out (whether it is reduced ban or no ban). I apologize for reaching such a harsh decision

@Chrono smells

@Bleed procrastinates more than me

@ASock sucks at DOTA