Bless - Team Fortress 2

Demos don't lie but clearly you do. You can refute it all you want but the proof is right there of you straight chasing me down without even a bump. You went over to an area that you had no reason to go to outside of chasing me to try to get the bump. The only time I flashed was when my cloak ran out at the end. You can deny the evidence all you want but the reality is that you we're clearly chasing an invis spy that you had no reason to chase in the first place Or be suspicious over. Idk who you think that you're fooling, because it's sure as hell not me.

This is literally just denial if ive ever seen it you clearly flashed after I bumped into you please feel free to watch the end of the second demo once again.

You "conveniently" walked in the direction of spooks at the end of the second demo. THEN you bumped into her which caused the flash. I watched the demo multiple times and that's exactly what happened which reinforced the theory of wall hacks.

Besides just disproving w/e spooks was on about her not being bumped, bumping into one spy without meaning too does not a hacker make, so far the only thing I can legitimately call even remotely suspect is the final kill on spooks, everything else is me spy checking the contained area with spies that had been continuously respawning and coming back to the same area. I would give you guys the win if I had specifically walked into areas with invis spies and then bumped into them. But there is no such evidence because there was nothing there in the first place besides a batch of people who do not like to lose.

There seems to be a lot of back and fourth here about just how bless noticed cloaked spies without a completely solid consensus on what actually happened.

So, if we don't decide what exactly the case was, is it guilty until proven innocent, or innocent until proven guilty?

 

Just wondering

seems to be an overwhelming amount of bandwagoning towards guilty until proven innocent

Besides just disproving w/e spooks was on about her not being bumped,

Reread my comment above please.

continuously respawning and coming back to the same area.

I'm not talking about the red scouts you see running, i'm talking about the invisible spys that you seem to shoot close to so often. There are a lot of "convenience" when you are spy checking, a lot of the time especially in the first demo, that you are shooting so close to the invisible spy or you just so happen to to decide to spy check when one is in the area.

I would give you guys the win if I had specifically walked into areas with invis spies and then bumped into them. But there is no such evidence because there was nothing there in the first place besides a batch of people who do not like to lose.

This isn't some competition, i'm not sure why you think it is, there is legitimate concern on your playing and it was handled at the admins' discretion and they, myself included, felt it's too suspicious and too convenient.

seems to be an overwhelming amount of bandwagoning towards guilty until proven innocent

Perhaps they believe that the evidence is sufficient enough to keep you banned?

Also, i would like it if the higher ups would settle this matter as it has been awhile and i believe everyone would like a decision as soon as possible

@mrnutty12 @Vexx @Sesh @Bello

Reread my comment above please.

 

I'm not talking about the red scouts you see running,

I wasn't either every single time I killed one of the spies instead of going a different class to possibly combat me they continued to respawn run out of spawn and cloak and dagger and wait for me to either bump/hit them. Actively moving infront of me increasing the likelihood that i would find them, or just cloak spamming to distract me away from other spies.

I wasn't either every single time I killed one of the spies instead of going a different class to possibly combat me they continued to respawn run out of spawn and cloak and dagger and wait for me to either bump/hit them. Actively moving infront of me increasing the likelihood that i would find them, or just cloak spamming to distract me away from other spies.

I think you forgot bout Spooks just standing there bb which doesn't fit this narrative at all. also it seems like you are trying to make it out that the staff were trying to frame you and get you banned by getting in your way for shits and giggles which is idiotic by itself.

Perhaps they believe that the evidence is sufficient enough to keep you banned?

Of course the people that already think I'm cheating think the evidence is sufficient enough to keep me banned, that is literally why they are here in the first place. They didn't post to root for the underdog.

This isn't some competition, i'm not sure why you think it is, there is legitimate concern on your playing and it was handled at the admins' discretion and they, myself included, felt it's too suspicious and too convenient.

I mean it is by all definition a competition, killing people with the soul purpose to win over them is a competition. Its what tf2 is all about. The only legitimate concern there was at first was the fact that I don't run hats and I have a private profile. If I had a hales own sniper rifle (with cloaked spy shots counted) and a bubbling team captain noone would bat an eyelash at me shooting them because I would look the part. The only convenient answer here is that noone has even tried to play devils advocate as to how I might not be cheating.The general consensus seems to be I'm a cheater, although the evidence of such is anecdotal at best, with one shifty spy kill at the very end.

Actively moving infront of me increasing the likelihood that i would find them, or just cloak spamming to distract me away from other spies.

I'm dying that's so hilarious. I was sitting completely still until you came to chase me. As shown in the second demo. Next I never uncloaked. I said this. I showed this in the demo. Going as far to say walking in front of you just to get you caught is just plain hilarious. Because if they were walking in front of you so you wouldn't bump them and get you caught. How do you know they were running in front of you in the first place? Nextly It's hilarious how you're pulling the "I wasn't either every single time I killed one of the spies instead of going a different class to possibly combat me they continued to respawn run out of spawn and cloak and dagger and wait for me to either bump/hit them." Oh yes cause we were running in front of you to get you to bump us!

Yep, you got us. Even though the demos show spies and myself moving away from you. No no you're right. We just hate you in particular even though we literally never met. We just particularly wanted to call you a hacker. No what? Even a bunch of staff got on for no reason just to pick on you too. /s

This is ludicrous. You say all these things in your posts but then the demos show otherwise. You push so hard for innocent until proven guilty and we provided evidence, witnesses, and counter arguments. Instead you provide victim complex. Yeah ok buddy.

I think you forgot bout Spooks just standing there bb which doesn't fit this narrative at all. also it seems like you are trying to make it out that the staff were trying to frame you and get you banned by getting in your way for fudges and giggles which is idiotic by itself.

I mean it sounds idiotic when you put it that way yes, but so does denying the fact that playtime and skill level correlate more often then not, and the more someone fights with spies the more they can anticipate a spies actions, with a little bit of lucky timing of course. And you can also not deny the fact that more than 4 people purposefully went spy and then cloaked around me in attempt to get me to find them to fuel the "hackusation"

I mean it sounds idiotic when you put it that way yes, but so does denying the fact that playtime and skill level correlate more often then not, and the more someone fights with spies the more they can anticipate a spies actions, with a little bit of lucky timing of course. And you can also not deny the fact that more than 4 people purposefully went spy and then cloaked around me in attempt to get me to find them to fuel the "hackusation"

Oh You knew how many spies there were at all times? Even though I was completely invis and never attacked you but you know somehow you knew there were exactly four spies. If your profile wasn't kept to private then maybe we'd see your real hours not this fake screenshot "close enough" garbage. You fueled the "hackusation" by providing several minutes of nothing but suspicious af kills and spy checks in areas you had no reason to check. I literally joined to catch you cheating. Not because I'm salty cause you killed me. Not because I'm mad cause you beat me 1v1 oh boo hoo. But because we had suspicions that you were hacking, and we do strongly believe we caught you.

I'm dying that's so hilarious. I was sitting completely still until you came to chase me. As shown in the second demo. Next I never uncloaked. I said this. I showed this in the demo. Going as far to say walking in front of you just to get you caught is just plain hilarious. Because if they were walking in front of you so you wouldn't bump them and get you caught. How do you know they were running in front of you in the first place?

I find it funny that you think standing behind someone cloaked is a good place to be if you arent looking to be found. I also am going to need some of these sentences edited because theyre very disjointedly put together and are causing some confusion for me namely this "Because if they were walking in front of you so you wouldn't bump them and get you caught" and this "I wasn't either every single time I killed one of the spies instead of going a different class to possibly combat me they continued to respawn run out of spawn and cloak and dagger and wait for me to either bump/hit them." I think youre trying to point out that changing class against a sniper would be a bad idea, but that logic is horribly flawed within itself because there are classes designed to counter sniper. As for the first sentence I think you were trying to say that the spies walking infront of me and me bumping them wouldnt get me caught. Also i too watched the demo so i now know what the spies were doing.

Oh yes cause we were running in front of you to get you to bump us! Even though the demos show spies and myself moving away from you.We just particularly wanted to call you a hacker. Even a bunch of staff got on for no reason just to pick on you too. You say all these things in your posts but then the demos show otherwise. You push so hard for innocent until proven guilty and we provided evidence, witnesses, and counter arguments.

besides admin chat showing that you guys were in fact attempting to "cheater" check me literally one of you dictating to the others on what to do, and the fact that I only got two kills on fully cloaked spies. One was on someone who ran around with a trail that was clearly visible whether or not cloaked, and the second one being on Ghosty who I bumped and then promptly beat to death. The demos continue to prove me right although you keep saying they aren't. The only evidence being brought forth is how obvious it is that im cheating, and the only witnesses are the people accusing me of cheating. Also what sane individual wouldn't push for innocent until proven guilty if they believe they did nothing wrong.

Oh You knew how many spies there were at all times?

Not at all times and in the demo you can clearly see about 4 or 5ish spies in my general area at once so...

If your profile wasn't kept to private then maybe we'd see your real hours not this fake screenshot "close enough" garbage.

If you had even bothered to cross reference the steamids and steam profile links then youd see that they match up and that the account banned is the same account shown( I honestly dont understand why this is being brought back up)

You fueled the "hackusation" by providing several minutes of nothing but suspicious af kills and spy checks in areas you had no reason to check.

"suspicious af" yeah? I would like you to specifically point out these suspicious kills and these spy checks that looked so out of place that they confused to the point of calling them fake.

I literally joined to catch you cheating. Not because I'm salty cause you killed me. Not because I'm mad cause you beat me 1v1 oh boo hoo. But because we had suspicions that you were hacking, and we do strongly believe we caught you.

I can only guess that you are upset with me killing you because you held enough of a grudge to not only call cheats, but to then spend the rest of the day defending your reasoning behind my supposed "cheats"

About these demos. After looking over them I can say that the guy is not hacking, but has incredibly good game sense. Almost every time a spy is killed, the spy had done something to give themselves away. In the first demo spies had their cloaks flashing constantly, would shoot at him, and even make noises. The weird aiming is due to the guys connection, you can tell by his crouch jumping, it's very jittery due to lag. With the second demo, when he had killed the spy at the end. You may think he is hacking from that instance alone, but after listening to the demo very carefully with music, and voice off I did notice one thing. The spy he had killed was using voicelines, someone using a surround sound headset could use this to find a spy, fishy yes, but not impossible. More importantly, I am actually more annoyed at @Vargas using his /rof command and shooting at the player. I want you guys to go back and watch the demos. Turn voice receive all the way down, as well as the in-game music and listen. I'm going to rule this off as just very, very attentive game sense, no hacking involved.

EDIT: Was informed the spy he killed was not the one using voice lines, but still he heard a spy, which would cause him to check around. Doesn't help that literally 20 seconds before he had taken the same path that the spy was standing in.

We've sort of been through this before a few times where we thought someone was hacking but it turned out not to be the case, and this is another of those situations where I'm not too sure or maybe I'm just too tired to really figure it out. Either way, I'm somewhat leaning towards what Vexx said due to a few mistakes I saw by the people testing if he was a hacker making it a little harder to tell and because we don't want to go recreating a Mahogany situation. I'll try watching it over again tomorrow/later though if it's still going by then, but while at some points things seem fishy, there also seems to be things that could clue an attentive player in.

After re-watching and such a bit ago, I don't really see anything that could convict him here.

Okay, I watched both demos.

I definitely don't think he's hacking tbh, just looks like he's extremely good. Vexx and Sesh said everything that had to be said, so. +1 for an unban from my side.

Also, it seems like this discussion got kinda out of hand, therefore apologies to OP (@bless) if the way you were spoken to came off condescending.

Virr, Vexx, Sesh and all agreed that he's innocent and @mrnutty12 is on vacation, so I suppose we can go ahead and unban him.

- closed