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Jacklyn

Slurs Thread Redux

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Alright so I feel as though I should re-instate my opinions from my last thread in a more intelligible

way. My thread was kind of a stinkpiece I admit, I was a bit pissed off at the time. I didn't really expect

to influence any sort of big changes but I was aiming to at least get some people to see it from my

perspective. I wanted to voice my opinion on it even though I knew that I would get a lot of hate, and I

did get a lot of hate, which is fair but I thought I would explain myself since a lot of people think I'm for

what I said.

 

This time I'm going to move away from if Nigga really is a slur or not because really, it's besides the point.

My big problem is with Xenogamers outlawing slurs in general. The fact that people sometimes

use slurs in general or good terms and not in a malicious way is completely ignored and it just seems

unreasonable to me. People usually don't get offended at slurs if they're used in a general sense.

Another thing is that it's really your choice at the end of the day to be offended by slurs or not. I don't think

it's a very good idea to support people having thin skin because they can't handle hearing these words,

you're just supporting weakness by doing this. People have said to me that it's because xG wants to reach

out to a broader, wider audience but xG does not appeal to a wide audience at all in my opinion. xG is full of Pokefurs,

Furries and every kind of weirdo in between and that scares away people on the get go by itself. And as I

stated in my thread before, when you start banning words you just give them more power. It's feeding into people's

sensitivities in an attempt to seem politically correct, which I don't understand because xG is just full to the brim with

degenerates of all shapes and sizes who probably wouldn't give a damn about anybody saying any type

of slurs. It's the admins who are making it a big deal and I don't even think most of them care much about

it personally. Why would you even want to harbor anyone who gets offended by words like Nigga?

 

My other point I was trying to make in my last thread was that the staff in xG is just downright inconsistent,

and that was probably the most agreed on point so I'm just going to talk about it a little more.

 

Here's a recent example of some very inconsistent moderating on xG: Awhile ago there was this guy on one of

the TF2 servers who was trying to make trouble by loop-holing the rules on Slurs by making their name things like

"Fellow African American" and etc and maybe I could have tolerated the Admin who was on ignoring it, but he was

also spouting anti-semitic things like "The holocaust never happened" and "Hitler did nothing wrong" and he was

going at it for a good ten to twenty minutes and the admin didn't even do anything about it. Even when I tried pointing them

to the admin they just ignored it and didn't even issue any warnings to the specific person. It's not that I was offended by what they

were saying but I felt like I was being cheated by the staff because this guy could get away with this scot-free but I got

muted for 30 minutes for saying "I can't believe Nigga is still considered a slur here"? It seemed very unfair to me.

 

There's inconsistencies in other rules too, it really just depends on what admin is on and what they think is bad to them.

Like for instance, I used to use /bonkme -1 to do things like get out of taunts and I got away with it for a veeeeeery loooooong

time without any admins saying anything about it until all of a sudden I was getting threatened to be banned for it by someone,

Which just confused the fuck out of me because it was so normal to me that it had become habit. Another one is using putting

teleporters in the skybox, it just depends what admin is on, some will tell you not to do it and some wont. I could probably go into

more inconsistent rules but you get the point.

 

Like I said, I don't expect this to change anything really because I already know most of you disagree with me on principle already

and/or hate me for what I've said or done in the past but I really do evaluate what you guys say to me and I'm not planning on

breaking the rules. Thanks.

Edited by Guest (see edit history)

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People have said to me that it's because xG wants to reach

out to a broader, wider audience but xG does not appeal to a wide audience at all in my opinion.

To address this, i'm going to outright steal from our resident @Forest from the previous thread;

With that said, please keep in mind that our rules and guidelines were not put in place with the intention to oppress race, ethnicity, gender or anything of the sort. Xeno Gamers, as a community, strives to foster a healthy gaming environment that everyone can enjoy. This means trying our best to eliminate any sort of hate speech, derogatory language, or other content that may be offensive. While that may seem like an impossible task [given the amount of bias and hypocrisy] we still make it a point to demonstrate to our Players that we are trying.

In the end of the day, the servers are meant to be a place where anyone and everyone can go and enjoy themselves. Now due to the infinite variety of people there are, it is arguably impossible to make a situation that is satisfying for everyone, but the rules attempt to keep such as close as possible.

 

My other point I was trying to make in my last thread was that the staff in xG is just downright inconsistent,

and that was probably the most agreed on point so I'm just going to talk about it a little more.

I don't have much to add to this that wasn't expressed in the previous thread, but what i'd like to say is even though it is ideal to have complete consistency among staff at all times and all situations to be handled perfectly the same, it is not something that will ever be one hundred percent possible until xG is moderated by a team of bots. There certainly is always room for improvement, but what i'd like to express is that staff are people too, and as people, inherently imperfect.

 

Here's a recent example of some very inconsistent moderating on xG: Awhile ago there was this guy on one of

the TF2 servers who was trying to make trouble by loop-holing the rules on Slurs by making their name things like

"Fellow African American" and etc and maybe I could have tolerated the Admin who was on ignoring it, but he was

also spouting anti-semitic things like "The holocaust never happened" and "Hitler did nothing wrong" and he was

going at it for a good ten to twenty minutes and the admin didn't even do anything about it. Even when I tried pointing them

to the admin they just ignored it and didn't even issue any warnings to the specific person. It's not that I was offended by what they

were saying but I felt like I was being cheated by the staff because this guy could get away with this scot-free but I got

muted for 30 minutes for saying "I can't believe Nigga is still considered a slur here"? It seemed very unfair to me.

I've already explained this situation as I could to you, and would just like you to try and understand there is a significant difference in what can and will be noticed and addressed by staff as the number of issues occurring on the server increases. Other then that, I would like to apologize as I never expressed that I understand how such a situation would feel unfair to you, and will mention one more thing to you in private when I wake up in terms of that particular situation.

 

I used to use /bonkme -1 to do things like get out of taunts and I got away with it for a veeeeeery loooooong

time without any admins saying anything about it

Now in terms of this particular example, I very much feel this is a direct abuse of donor powers and would not agree with any staff who say otherwise. Having the ability to escape a situation others can not and then potentially hamper them is very much giving yourself an advantage that non-donors distinctively would lack.

 

Another one is using putting

teleporters in the skybox

I would like to address and discuss this particular example as well. The motd states that it is acceptable to noclip to the skybox and build and such which is all fine and good, but there is no specification as to any difference to achieving this through rtd, purchase of no-clip through the hub, or from donation. This is probably something I've seen go both ways more then anything else and while I presonally feel any such situation would be fine in this case, it would be very much appreciated if there could be a specification if using no-clip through donation is excluded from this.

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I honestly cannot see the angle you're aiming for here, are we talking about slurs or are we talking about staff incompetency? Slurs are never going to be allowed so I would never count on that. As for inconsistency with how staff handle situations, that is something that can't really be fixed either. As humans we are all different, no two people are going to handle their position the same way. While one staff member may be a total "Hitler" admin, the other might be incredibly laid back and not really do much of anything. We cannot change how people think, and us having the rules the way they currently are helps us keep a non-toxic environment.

 

Also,

when you start banning words you just give them more power

Stop quoting this. This was something said by a comedy based YouTuber, and has no real substance in an actual argument against not allowing slurs. What you are pushing for here does not really seem feasible, nor does it seem like a very right thing to do. I've played on servers where there is basically "no rules, say what you want" and honestly those were some of the worst I've visited. The last thing I want xG filled with is 15 year old's thinking that 9/11 jokes are funny and spouting racism at every user that decides to even turn the camera in their direction. There's a reason why things are the way they are, there's really no point in changing what has already worked for so long.

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Inconsistencies are a given since we're not a hive mind, best we can do is shoot for things to be as consistent as possible among the staff body.

 

If we started allowing people to use slurs in a non-malicious way, that'd just pave the way for further problems when people using them in 'wrong' ways start bashing us for punishing them but not others just casually tossing them around. It'd probably just also lead to people abusing this in other ways as well.

 

Things work as they are, and I'd much rather be in a policed server than one that's just left to fend for itself or is very lax after being on a few others.

Edited by Guest (see edit history)

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Inconsistencies are a given since we're not a hive mind, best we can do is shoot for things to be as consistent as possible among the staff body.

 

If we started allowing people to use slurs in a non-malicious way, that'd just pave the way for further problems when people using them in 'wrong' ways start bashing us for punishing them but not others just casually tossing them around. It'd probably just also lead to people abusing this in other ways as well.

 

Things work as they are, and I'd much rather be in a policed server than one that's just left to fend for itself or is very lax after being on a few others.

Inconsistencies are a given since we're not a hive mind, best we can do is shoot for things to be as consistent as possible among the staff body.

 

If we started allowing people to use slurs in a non-malicious way, that'd just pave the way for further problems when people using them in 'wrong' ways start bashing us for punishing them but not others just casually tossing them around. It'd probably just also lead to people abusing this in other ways as well.

 

Things work as they are, and I'd much rather be in a policed server than one that's just left to fend for itself or is very lax after being on a few others.

That's a fair opinion but I disagree.

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I honestly cannot see the angle you're aiming for here, are we talking about slurs or are we talking about staff incompetency? Slurs are never going to be allowed so I would never count on that. As for inconsistency with how staff handle situations, that is something that can't really be fixed either. As humans we are all different, no two people are going to handle their position the same way. While one staff member may be a total "Hitler" admin, the other might be incredibly laid back and not really do much of anything. We cannot change how people think, and us having the rules the way they currently are helps us keep a non-toxic environment.

 

Also,

 

Stop quoting this. This was something said by a comedy based YouTuber, and has no real substance in an actual argument against not allowing slurs. What you are pushing for here does not really seem feasible, nor does it seem like a very right thing to do. I've played on servers where there is basically "no rules, say what you want" and honestly those were some of the worst I've visited. The last thing I want xG filled with is 15 year old's thinking that 9/11 jokes are funny and spouting racism at every user that decides to even turn the camera in their direction. There's a reason why things are the way they are, there's really no point in changing what has already worked for so long.

How hard is it to give staff a set of rules to enforce. If they don't enforce the rules properly then they shouldn't be staff.

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How hard is it to give staff a set of rules to enforce. If they don't enforce the rules properly then they shouldn't be staff.

Staff are given the same rules to enforce as you are to follow. They are also given this guide to use: TF2 Staff Manual (Everything you need to know!) | Xeno Gamers and also do need to heed to the donator rules, which is where your complaint falls into. The reason why we didn't used to enforce the scareme thing was because anyone could use it. It was changed to donator only, as it was originally intended, and was then enforced as a donator command, falling into donator abuse if someone used it to gain an advantage. And once again, what one staff member may see as racist, others may not. Different staff members live in different parts of the world, racist comments in one place won't be the same in others. As for the one you were mentioning, the user in question seemed to be just spouting garbage, and inherently pretty harmless. You said a slur which, you were told not to say, which is why you were punished.

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My big problem is with Xenogamers outlawing slurs in general.

I don't see why that would be a problem. If you're going to complain about Xenogamers censoring slurs of any kind for whatever reason then I think you should complain about respecting other players rule as well. If what you want is to use slurs on the servers, plenty of people are going to abuse that. You already see people join the server occasionally spouting out the n-word like it's nothing just to start shit and are gagged/muted/kicked/banned for it and I would personally rather not have those people stick around just because you wanted to joke around with your friend.

 

People usually don't get offended at slurs if they're used in a general sense.

That's probably because a lot of people are afraid to speak their voice. I know I've heard some condescending things said about minorities on the servers before but, in all honesty, I'd rather not say anything because I don't really want to argue with that person, especially if they got a good portion of the server convinced that a particular group of people are bad because they are different.

 

I don't think it's a very good idea to support people having thin skin

I'm sorry everybody wasn't raised the same and taught how to respect others.

 

There's inconsistencies in other rules too, it really just depends on what admin is on and what they think is bad to them.

Please keep in mind that staff is made up of human beings that interpret things differently. What's bad to one person could be completely fine to another and if someone is unsure they'd ask for a second opinion on the situation. This happens all the time with non-racial slurs like "fag" and causes confusion among staff members. While it is allowed in some cases, other times it's not and people constantly check if the word is used maliciously or not.

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My big problem is with Xenogamers outlawing slurs in general. The fact that people sometimes

use slurs in general or good terms and not in a malicious way is completely ignored and it just seems

unreasonable to me. People usually don't get offended at slurs if they're used in a general sense.

 

I mean sure, I guess, if the people are really close friends. Most of the time I've actually seen them used on the servers, it was in a malicious way. There are people who join to just spam binds that say some pretty awful stuff.

 

People usually don't get offended at slurs if they're used in a general sense.

Another thing is that it's really your choice at the end of the day to be offended by slurs or not. I don't think

it's a very good idea to support people having thin skin because they can't handle hearing these words,

you're just supporting weakness by doing this

 

But on the opposite side, even if you're not offended by the words, wouldn't it make you uncomfortable to be on the server if it were allowed? You see a dude spamming racial slurs into chat every 5 seconds and the Admins don't do anything because "They're just words", wouldn't you think to yourself "Wow, the Admins don't have a handle on anything here"?

 

People have said to me that it's because xG wants to reach

out to a broader, wider audience but xG does not appeal to a wide audience at all in my opinion

 

2 seconds later...

 

xG is full of Pokefurs,

Furries and every kind of weirdo in between

 

I dunno, I think that's a pretty broad and wide audience...

 

xG is full of Pokefurs,

Furries and every kind of weirdo in between and that scares away people on the get go by itself

 

You say that they scare away players, maybe by their words or actions or whatever, but wouldn't someone who's spamming racial slurs either in chat or mic have the same effect?

 

I'm honestly not offended by slurs whatsoever. Doesn't mean I want players throwing those slurs at others though, either. Like I said in the last thread, there's a "Repect all players" rule. Throwing around slurs isn't very respectful.

 

My other point I was trying to make in my last thread was that the staff in xG is just downright inconsistent

 

Ok, true. Things are a bit inconsistent. Maybe some servers word the rules differently than the others do, and that can be fixed. However, the inconsistency thing really can't for one reason: everyone's different.

Yes, we have a Staff Handbook and a procedure we follow when enforcing rules/dishing out punishments. I agree that rules should be more clearly written, for example the Teleporter in Skybox rule, it shouldn't change depending on Staff, it should either be a rule or not. However, whether something is offensive or not is most likely gonna change from person to person...

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I agree inconsistencies happen between staff members and how they enforce the rules, however, what I don't understand is how allowing people to disrespect and insult each other based on skin color, sex, sexual orientation, or disability will somehow open us to a wider audience. These are insults, meant to literally get people to fuck off, rather than stick around.

 

Now, you have a point that everyone has their own thing which can be made fun of, and you can't watch everyone, even when they're attacking you personally. But we can still do our best to promote respect based around traits we all have in common, such as the one's I mentioned earlier.

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I agree inconsistencies happen between staff members and how they enforce the rules, however, what I don't understand is how allowing people to disrespect and insult each other based on skin color, sex, sexual orientation, or disability will somehow open us to a wider audience. These are insults, meant to literally get people to fuck off, rather than stick around.

 

Now, you have a point that everyone has their own thing which can be made fun of, and you can't watch everyone, even when they're attacking you personally. But we can still do our best to promote respect based around traits we all have in common, such as the one's I mentioned earlier.

I never said allowing slurs would help make the server reach a bigger audience, I just dont agree with it on a personal level

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I never said allowing slurs would help make the server reach a bigger audience, I just dont agree with it on a personal level

If you don't agree with it on a personal level and notice other people saying no, what makes you think that those people don't get offended by slurs? The rule isn't in place to annoy Jackie, its there for the greater good of other people who do get offended.

Edited by Guest (see edit history)

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If you don't agree with it on a personal level and notice other people saying no, what makes you think that those people don't get offended by slurs? The rule isn't in place to annoy Jackie, its there for the greater good of other people who do get offended.

who the fuck cares if people get offended. Boo hoo

Edited by Guest (see edit history)

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who the fuck cares if people get offended. Boo hoo

As staff members, it's our duty to stop people from disrespecting other people and make sure everyone has a good time to as far as a degree as possible. People getting offended would make them want to leave the servers.

I never said allowing slurs would help make the server reach a bigger audience, I just dont agree with it on a personal level

If you don't agree with it that's fine. I disagree with some rules myself, such as the old teleport-spawncamping rule. You just have to work with it though sadly.

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