rejected Sylux - Team Fortress 2

[Sylux 31]

I remain neutral on the main sylux situation, however +1 for an extension to Zack’s ban because, although like @Elcark said he wasn’t acting the same in this situation, he’s had way too many instances of toxicity and instigating in the past without punishment past gags and mutes.

Zack wasn't banned he was only gagged for 24 hours

[Kypari 579]

[attach=full]32698[/attach]

(Dates are important)

Jumping on a wim and giving Sylux am instant month ban was pretty unfair I would say. All of his band are spread out from years, and as we've learned from our friend Brian, staff shouldn't go off of very very old bans for punishment. +1 for removal/shorten.

That's not his ban history. It's longer.

 

There is absolutely no reason why this ban should be removed. Sylux broke the rules and should receive a punishment as a result of being kicked and warned in the past as well. That means he needs to be banned. If that so means 1 week so be it, but there is no reason why he should be entirely unbanned. After all this time he has shown no sign of improving ever since he was first banned so there is no reason to just add a random decay even though there is no actual rule for it. Until there is an actual decay rule brought in I stand by this.

[Kypari 579]

That's not his ban history. It's longer.

[attach=full]32703[/attach]

 

There is absolutely no reason why this ban should be removed. Sylux broke the rules and should receive a punishment as a result of being kicked and warned in the past as well. That means he needs to be banned. If that so means 1 week so be it, but there is no reason why he should be entirely unbanned. After all this time he has shown no sign of improving ever since he was first banned so there is no reason to just add a random decay even though there is no actual rule for it. Until there is an actual decay rule brought in I stand by this.

When Zack's punishment was being discussed the idea of a one hour ban was also brought up but a day gag was what was settled on. I am fine with changing Zack's punishment to either a day ban (hour bans are pretty useless on forums) and Sylux has his ban reduced to 1 week (since clearly people aren't completely 100% on a month) or we can have them both week silenced. I am fine with whatever. Just my thoughts though

[Kypari 579]

I think a day ban would be suitable for both of them. I never said that he should be unbanned.

+1 for removal/shorten.

[Kypari 579]

You're ignoring the fact that I said shorten too. Stop with the cherry picking

I'm not ignoring anything. You clearly said remove/shorten and you just said that you didn't.

 

There's no need for stupid shit like this. You said you were in favor of removing it then you said you aren't. That's fine.

[dr.derpy 18]

Not gonna vouch on your ban because I don't care but I'm gonna +1 to ban Zack

idk looks like he said he doesnt care about removing it

[Kypari 579]

I'm just saying that I'm in favor for both, but I'm more in favor of shortening his ban. Clam down my guy

And that's all you needed to say.

You're also making this situation way worse than it already is. We pretty much agree with each other so I don't understand why you're still arguing.

Don't put this on me when you literally just said

Clam down my guy

That literally makes no sense at all. I'm also in favor of Sylux being banned for at least a week, preferably a month since his last ban was not even a year ago.

[Tatost 604]

For what feels like the millionth time, I am going to have to disagree with the Weasley twins here

+1 for removal/shorten of the ban

+1 to ban Zack for the same time

To avoid saying the exact same thing in this thread for the hundredth fucking time I'm just gonna give the gist of it. Sylux argued and was perhaps a little toxic, but his last bans were last year.

Zack is constantly being a salty man child in-game whining when things don't go his way and starts pointless arguments with everyone. How has this guy not been banned before????? Sometimes I wonder how well the staff team is holding back bias ?

[Kypari 579]

For what feels like the millionth time, I am going to have to disagree with the Weasley twins here

+1 for removal/shorten of the ban

+1 to ban Zack for the same time

To avoid saying the exact same thing in this thread for the hundredth fucking time I'm just gonna give the gist of it. Sylux argued and was perhaps a little toxic, but his last bans were last year.

Zack is constantly being a salty man child in-game whining when things don't go his way and starts pointless arguments with everyone. How has this guy not been banned before????? Sometimes I wonder how well the staff team is holding back bias ?

Sylux's last ban was less than a year ago.

[Kypari 579]

His last ban was 11 months ago. I think what we're trying to say is that it's been long enough to give the reset.

That's fair to say as an opinion. However, I think the main issue is that there is still no decay rule. We need to be told if there is going to be a decay rule or not and how long that decay is, because most of this ban protest is based off the fact that his last ban was a while ago.

 

Please can we just make this a rule or say that it won't be a rule so this doesn't happen in the future, like I said it would after the Brian thread. It's really stressful to be arguing over something so opinion-based and none of us agreeing on how long this made-up decay is

[Tatost 604]

That's fair to say as an opinion. However, I think the main issue is that there is still no decay rule. We need to be told if there is going to be a decay rule or not and how long that decay is, because most of this ban protest is based off the fact that his last ban was a while ago.

 

Please can we just make this a rule or say that it won't be a rule so this doesn't happen in the future, like I said it would after the Brian thread. It's really stressful to be arguing over something so opinion-based and none of us agreeing on how long this made-up decay is

There is no way that you could know this, but I

That's fair to say as an opinion. However, I think the main issue is that there is still no decay rule. We need to be told if there is going to be a decay rule or not and how long that decay is, because most of this ban protest is based off the fact that his last ban was a while ago.

 

Please can we just make this a rule or say that it won't be a rule so this doesn't happen in the future, like I said it would after the Brian thread. It's really stressful to be arguing over something so opinion-based and none of us agreeing on how long this made-up decay is

I've contacted a higher up on the matter, once they are available they will give me their opinion and we can discuss it. If needed I can ask them to take the question to both of the Community Leaders and get their opinions on the idea as well. If they allow me, or they make a post themselves, we can give further updates on this.

[Tatost 604]

Just ignore the top part, oops.

[mrnutty12 184]

That's fair to say as an opinion. However, I think the main issue is that there is still no decay rule. We need to be told if there is going to be a decay rule or not and how long that decay is, because most of this ban protest is based off the fact that his last ban was a while ago.

 

Please can we just make this a rule or say that it won't be a rule so this doesn't happen in the future, like I said it would after the Brian thread. It's really stressful to be arguing over something so opinion-based and none of us agreeing on how long this made-up decay is

We did discuss this issue after the Brian thread actually (just not publicly), though IIRC the consensus was that we should have the punishment match the offense as opposed to some arbitrary number of months that the bans stop counting after.

 

That said, with regards to reducing Sylux's ban, it has been nearly a year since he was last banned and it was for abuse of calladmin/disrespect not trolling and harassment like the current one. However I cannot just ignore his history of inflammatory and disrespectful behavior. So, my proposal is that we reduce his current ban to a week and replace the month punishment with a silence.

With note to @Sylux, stop being such a rude boi to people, it gets you nowhere good quick. Also, other people being part of a problem does NOT make it ok to continue causing it.

 

As for Zack, I would appreciate a proper ban request thread where we can have all of that information in one place to be its own focus of discussion.

Aside from getting his own ban request thread, I have heard that there is some amount of favoritism towards Zack who by most accounts is given much leniency and was only given a day mute. That would be fine if Sylux had gotten a day mute recently prior to this incident, but he didn't. As it turns out Sylux hasn't had a day mute in over 2 years! (from presumably Rejects since SB says the admin was deleted) It seems to me like somebody forgot to mute Sylux for a day or more before jumping to bans. We are given the ability to mute people for more than 30 min for a reason, don't ignore that when it is convenient towards the end of banning people you don't like.

[realBelloWaldi 1245]

On an unrelated note, I think one of the main reasons other people aren't protesting against Sylux's ban is because he isn't part of any real "in" group. He doesn't have 9 to 13 people in a discord to back him up regardless of what happens, and I do think that people who don't like him (rightly or wrongly) are going to try and use it against him.

Well said. My thoughts, quick and compressed: Was the ban justified?

Not really. Where do I start? If I recall correctly, we do a day -> a week -> a month. Were these steps followed? I don't think so. All bans that I am seeing are from about about a year ago (let's not take the ones for calladmin abuse into consideration, as that's a whole different topic). So we have one ban from 10-30-15 for disrespect. There is also the one from early this year which seems to be due to disrespect and calladmin abuse as well, though I don't know what exactly got him banned at the end. Only @Shadower may now. While I would rather give Sylux the benefit of the doubt, let's just assume it was for the same exact reason as yesterday - unless you want to take REALLY old bans into consideration, then there is no way a one month ban would be justified, as there was no recent week ban.

If you want to justify a month ban, then in my personal opinion using a week ban from 08-21-15 is a little weak, as people change during two whole years. If you think that he should have gotten a week earlier, that is fine but matter of fact, he hasn't and Sylux himself definitely cannot be held accountable for that. I'm also curious as to why Zac "only" got muted while Sylux was banned. Zac does not seem to be banned, however. Why is Sylux getting a ban and Zac just an extended mute? As far as I can tell, both are a part of the problem.

Is Sylux in the right here?

Definitely not. The fact that he made binds to specifically annoy that Zac guy is wrong and should not be condoned either. Comments like "zack if you pay me 20 keys i can teach you basic death match" are not helping Sylux's case either. I agree that Zac is definitely not in the right either, but it's just unnecessary on both sides. Someone should have tried to defuse the situation.

What should be done?

First things first I want to make it very clear that I am not speaking on behalf of anyone else. This is my own opinion and you can disagree with me all you want, but don't blame it on others if you do.

I think Sylux's ban should be reduced. I am curently not sure whether we should make it a day (or just unban him by the time this thread is closed) or a week. Looking at his past history, I can understand how some people want a longer ban, but I am not sure if a ban from 11 months ago that was not merely for disrespect is much of a reason to make it a week. This is something that higher ups need to discuss privately before coming to a conclusion.

However, a month is in my opinion too long. Zac on the other hand should either receive a day ban or a very clear warning.

And I want to shoutout @ThunderLimes for making quite useful posts. Good job (y).

Edited December 5, 2017 by Guest (see edit history)

[KittysPJ 1]

I vouch for Sylux.

 

>Being banned without any warning in my opinion wasn't a justified action. The admin should give them two a warning before any actions were made. Whether it's favoritism or not, it is not a fair treatment.

>True that sylux was told before and was banned in the past however, he served his time and accepted it from his previous bans. I don't think that straight up banning him without saying anything was professional - I thought you guys follow procedures before acting.

>Sylux used to be mod and before he acted, he always do the procedure before acting.

>To be fair, Zack should of just muted him or leave the server. Sylux wasn't forcing him to stay, Zack had the chance to mute him or leave the server.