The Moderator Submission Rules Have Been Updated. Please Read.

You're misunderstanding what a donation essentially is. A donation is a contribution made to benefit a cause, in this case to further the growth of Xeno Gamers. That's great and all, but donating is typically done of free-will and not because someone is obliged to do it. In this scenario, in order to just apply for Staff Membership, a user has to donate. There are no 'ifs' 'ands' or 'buts', if you don't "donate" then you don't have the privilege to apply for Staff. This, in and of itself, isn't donating. It's just masking the underlying "if you want this perk, you have to pay to get it" mentality. No matter how it's worded, people are being forced to have to pay to submit a Staff Application, plain and simple.

I guess I see it that way since I also feel that the whole idea of staff applications' existance is really dumb, to be honest if someone wants staff they should just be picked by the higher ups and that should be it.

I really don't see the need for anyone to make a staff submission since there can be no good reason for it other than the guy being too impatient or unfit for staff, we already eliminate the staff submissions from people who are inactive and unfamiliar with higher ups so I honestly think it's the most unnecessary option we have on the forums

here are some fresh examples of the kind of staff submissions I'm talking about, and take note that these are the only TF2 staff submissions that I've checked this year, and every single staff submission I've seen so far has been dumb as fuck

Submissions from people that are way too impatient (and maybe a little egotistic (@Bach)) to let others know that they are either active again, or they are willing to be active again if they get staff

Hero - Team Fortress 2

Shwoos - Team Fortress 2

[xg] Bach - Team Fortress 2

Moosty - Team Fortress 2

[xg] Avenger - Team Fortress 2

Cr1tikal - Team Fortress 2

Submissions from little kids that we don't even know

Danger Ham - Team Fortress 2

☮vibes☮ - Team Fortress 2

Xenofox - Team Fortress 2

Vriska Serket - Team Fortress 2

Submissions from people who are (or were) often considered to be unfit for staff

Chef Shadower - Team Fortress 2

Tomahawk - Team Fortress 2

Snowyminion - Team Fortress 2

Shitposts

Xg| Chef Shadower - Team Fortress 2

Caleb956 - Team Fortress 2

Actual good one that was awkwardly handled and ended up being closed

[xg:m] Thesupremepatriot - Forum

Like I said, these are literally every staff submission that I've seen this year and all of them were either terrible from the beginning, or were handled terribly

If it was up to me I'd just remove the option of staff submissions as a whole

To be honest I always thought that donating was a crucial step before making a staff submission, I was never able to access that section due to the fact that I didn't/couldn't donate, and I always thought it's a legit process, I mean if you really want a position in staff, you can pay for a PM or a PA, if you can't pay that much, but you are impatient and don't think the higher ups will ever notice you to get promoted, you can pay a small fee and see how it goes, and the last way to get staff, is to forget about getting staff and just play your part in the community, if the higher ups sees you're fit to be moderator or admin, you'll know.

The second thing is about donations, which is frequently misunderstood, this is a community, and if you love your community and want to see it rise and live, you should and must donate no matter if you're a CL,DL,DM,A,M, or just a member, not because you want a pass or just want to get perks, but because you're committed to the community and want to help without expecting a gift in return.

Submissions from people who are (or were) often considered to be unfit for staff

I can't tell if I'm in the "are" section. or the "were" section.. probably the "are" section.

-1 was expecting the next scootaloo news thread to be a wub wub weekends announcement

*part of post you should care about*

It doesn't say "within the last 2 weeks anymore" so if you've only donated once, can you apply multiple times?

Just say it's like a 5 dollar fee to make an app. It's a lot less confusing then calling it "donating", cuz it really isn't.

I think that, like Egossi has stated before, the term "donation" has been loosely thrown about and taken from "Here, take my money because I want the community to grow" to "Here, take my money because I want stuff in the game". I really don't think that the paid submission to even apply is a good idea. It creates this underlying feeling that someone who is indeed worthy of the moderator position will not be selected because they have no money. Also like Egossi has said, Many of the people who have created Staff Applications fit into many categories, and all of the ones I have seen (Not meaning all of the staff applications in the forums) have either been said no to, or have not had a valid answer. Most of the people who create the applications are either underage, have not "donated", or are immature. If this is going to be the case, then I would say just take them away and give out the Promo/Demo according to activity and maturity from the person in the community, not because they gave some money recently and they are old enough. If there is someone who the higher-ups see fit for mod, they should not go based on this silly rule of "You must 'donate' to make an application." and instead think "Hey, that person is a memeber AND they are really mature? Maybe I should recommend tell a DM/DL/CL!"

But, this is only a mere member's opinion. not something that a higher-up would look at.

Now you dont have to donate to apply????????!!!!!!????

* Donating is no longer a requirement to obtain a Staff Position, but it weighs favorably for you if you have donated prior to submitting your application!

Copy and pasted at 3:48 P.M. my time

It was editted around 2:30 P.M. my time. What is going on???

I guess I see it that way since I also feel that the whole idea of staff applications' existance is really dumb, to be honest if someone wants staff they should just be picked by the higher ups and that should be it.

I really don't see the need for anyone to make a staff submission since there can be no good reason for it other than the guy being too impatient or unfit for staff, we already eliminate the staff submissions from people who are inactive and unfamiliar with higher ups so I honestly think it's the most unnecessary option we have on the forums

From my perspective, there are a few reasons why Staff Submissions are still a thing:

[spoiler=Staff Submissions]

1. Community Input

It's always important to heed what the community has to say about something, whether it be in regards to a rule change or new Staff Member(s). Reason being that it introduces a third party to provide their input on the matter; an outside perspective that may differ from that of a Higher-Up's. It also gives players/users who only have Member status a chance to give their input on something that may very well influence the Servers (or even clan). In other words, it gives the 'Member' rank an important air around it whereas a 'Registered' user's input wouldn't be as influential. Such is the case with every other form of application/protest in terms of 'Member' influence.

2. Inadequacy/Shortage of Staff

During times where the Staff pool is shallow, the application process becomes crucial in boosting those numbers. It allows Higher-Ups to specifically monitor potential applicants as opposed to having to determine who is deserving of a position. It also eliminates the potential of a player declining the offer to become a Moderator/Administrator as an applicant wants to have the position. This can really cut down on the time it would take to promote new Staff since not only would there be community input to aid in developing a portfolio of the applicant, but as aforementioned, the Higher-Ups can eliminate one step (finding potential applicants) which can take anywhere from a few days to a week or more. Long story short, it [potentially] cuts down on the time spent trying to find new Staff.

3. Establishing Interest in Player

There are times where players who have an extensive knowledge of the Server rules slip through the cracks and are never really noticed by the Higher-Ups. However unlikely, this is bound to happen, and when it does it makes these applications a chance at getting that player's name out there. Even if that player's application is denied, it still gives the Higher-Ups an option down the road should they be lacking in Staff.

4. Extra Income

This one is a given, it's what we're all discussing at the moment. Every little bit helps, even if it's a "donation" of $5 toward gaining the ability to post a Staff Submission.

In the end, having the option to submit an application is better than not having the option at all; even if players are inclined to "donate" (still really think this should be considered a fee).

That all being said, I brought this up in a comment and I'm interested to know whether Paid Moderator/Administrator positions are still a thing @Rhododendron . If so, I recommend an addition of it be made in the "Moderator Submission Rules" thread (maybe a discussion had on whether it should still be a thing or not among the Higher-Ups; and if so whether it should have some sort of rules).

Also still curious on a before/after of the Moderator Rules, honestly can't tell what is new and what isn't.

EDIT: Also noticed that the rule on "donations" was reworded which is great, but it is still hiding the fact that you have to donate in order to post a Staff Submission in the first place ("weighing favourably" is like saying "it wouldn't hurt to", but it is actually necessary in order to post a Staff Submission to begin with and may confuse Players/Members). *Note: This is assuming that Players are still unable to actually post a Staff Submission, if they are able to now (non-donators now have access to the Staff Submission form), then please disregard this edit.

Another EDIT: Hate to be an annoyance, I know this post is long enough as it is, but for the record; if a Higher-Up could post what they've changed or included in threads like the "Moderator Rule" one, it would be greatly appreciated as opposed to just making an edit and expecting everyone to know about it afterwards without little to no warning or announcements.

In the end, having the option to submit an application is better than not having the option at all

I see your point, I guess even though pretty much every staff submission I've seen has been unnecessary and unsuccessful, having the option to make staff submissions is still a good thing as it has the potential to let the higher ups know about good staff material

Another EDIT: Hate to be an annoyance, I know this post is long enough as it is, but for the record; if a Higher-Up could post what they've changed or included in threads like the "Moderator Rule" one, it would be greatly appreciated as opposed to just making an edit and expecting everyone to know about it afterwards without little to no warning or announcements.

yeah for real, i guess the donation necessity for making staff submissions are removed now which was an option that has been demanded in the first place, that's better

Sorry I'm late to the party.

Don't worry guys. If we have a former staff member want staff again, and they haven't donated, we aren't going to cold-shoulder them. =p

Really Scoot? 'Cause that kinda happened to me. Hero - Team Fortress 2 I'm not faulting anyone for this, but if the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing that's a bit disconcerting to me. @Scootaloo

Edit: Noticed Donor req has been removed. Good call.