Smash Bros

why do people not like the 3DS version of Smash 4, it's way better

Wii U has better graphics, better stages for competitive, need only one for multiple people, better controller options (etc)

EDIT: Oh and the numerous amount of circle pad casualties

Wii U has better graphics, better stages for competitive, need only one for multiple people, better controller options (etc)

EDIT: Oh and the numerous amount of circle pad casualties

Who said i was trying to play competitive in the first place, 3DS has way better stages. It always seems like an excuse for people to prevent themselves from playing Smash 3DS

Who said i was trying to play competitive in the first place, 3DS has way better stages. It always seems like an excuse for people to prevent themselves from playing Smash 3DS

Yeah but you literally just pointed out one reason and that's it

Plus a bigger screen

@Kypari @Swift @metalslug53

Alright, so here are my thoughts on the series. I probably left something out but whatever.

The ranks:

1. Super Smash Bros. Melee

2. Project M

3. Super Smash Bros. Brawl

4. Super Smash Bros. 64

5. Super Smash Bros 4 (SM4SH)

SSBM: 1st place

Pros – Easily the best competitive Smash title, not to mention a great spectator sport. Fast, dynamic, exciting to watch and even more fun to play. Enough character options and content that it's been a fan favorite for nearly 15 years. This game basically sets the standard for all future Smash titles, although it's doubtful that any will ever compare.

Cons – The fast-paced nature of this game makes it difficult to master and less of a “party” game. But really, if you’re playing Melee with anything but competitive intentions, you need to find a new game.

Characters – Sheik/Zelda, Link, Ganondorf (main); Marth, Puff, ICs (alternate)

Reason for characters: While I am good with them, I main the Hyrule trio for fun and for style, not because they’re optimal character choices. If we're looking to optimize though, Marth is good against nearly every character while Puff cleans up the rest, so that’ll be my competitive team if I ever decide to play in tournaments. Wobbling is fun.

SSBPM: 2nd place

Pros – This Brawl mod takes the characters and DACUS of Brawl and combines it with the physics and fast-paced gameplay of Melee. Roy and Mewtwo are back, and much better than their Melee counterparts. All multi-character selections (Pokemon Trainer, Zelda/Sheik and Samus/Zero Suit) are separated into their component characters, and most are better than their vanilla Brawl counterparts. But in the end, it’s really just Melee with Brawl characters.

Cons – The game is constantly being patched, with characters updated and revised every several months, making it impossible for a standard metagame to develop and evolve (as it has with Melee). Mewtwo is a little too overpowered, but it’s still to be seen whether he’ll become the next Meta Knight or if he’s just more like Melee Fox.

Characters – Marth, Lucas, Kirby (main); Snake, Mewtwo

Reason for characters: I enjoy the feel of Marth and Lucas, can't really explain it. I use Kirby to troll, especially if my opponent is an Ivysaur main – it’s a soft counter and I can go to nearly any stage and win. It’s dumb and cheap and funny as hell. Mewtwo is just a given 'cause he's good, and Snake’s stickies are OP.

SSBB: 3rd place

Pros – Several useful new techniques, such as the DACUS, debuted in this game. The Subspace Emissary adventure mode is totally awesome, and easily the most engaging single-player Smash mode to date (and it has a co-op feature too!). Meta Knight is basically a Melee character in this Brawl world.

Cons – Random trips make gameplay unpredictable and detract from the competitive potential of the game. Couple that with the floaty game physics, and you have one heckuva boring game to watch (usually) that favors defensive strategic play. Some advanced techniques in Melee were removed (Wavedashing, etc.). Meta Knight is too overpowered.

Characters – Marth, Lucas (main); Meta Knight, ICs (alternate)

Reason for characters: Marth and Lucas as above. Meta Knight is a given, and ICs still have infinite grab combos.

SSB64: 4th place

Pros – Easily the most “party” game of any Smash title. Fun to play with friends. I miss Saffron City.

Cons – Many of the maps still have a fixed-angle feel to them, like basically every other fighting game. Y’know, like you’re fighting in a box. Easily the least “hype” Smash title to watch, unless Isai is playing (Google him if you don’t know who that is). I know there are some high-level strategies and skill involved in competitive play, but this is by no means a spectator sport. Combos are difficult to perform. While great for its time, Smash 64 has a small character roster, limited character options and little bonus content as compared to the other Smash titles.

Characters – Kirby (main); Link, Fox, Falcon (alternate)

Reason for characters: Link for style points (and for fun too!). Kirby 'cause he plays like Melee 'Puff. Fox and Falcon 'cause they're easier to control than their Melee counterparts.

SSB4: 5th place

A quick note: Most people seem to believe the formula here is [(Melee + Brawl)/2] = SM4SH. Although the physics are indeed somewhere between the previous two titles, the action lag for each character’s moves varies from better than Melee to worse than Brawl, so the game really is its own thing, for better or for worse. So far I have only watched others play it on YouTube, so I can’t make a fully-educated decision, but if I have to rank it I’ll put it last. It's not worth mentioning the Wii U and the 3DS versions separately, since I really don't know the difference.

Pros – Certainly more entertaining to watch than Smash 64. Online play is faster and more synced than in Brawl, and the roster seems more or less balanced. The ability to play a decent Smash game on a handheld device is pretty cool too.

Cons – Several advanced strategies from previous titles (edgehogging, etc.) have been nerfed or removed entirely. There’s no adventure mode ... I guess Nintendo couldn’t think of a way to top Subspace Emissary? While the twist with Master Hand at the end of the Wii U single-player mode is interesting,

it’s just not the same as a new Subspace. Also, For Glory mode isn’t much different from online play in the last title, except that it performs a bit better and has a cool name. Since Nintendo finally made the leap to include DLC, we may see *mandatory* patches and updates released for the game just like with Project M (but that’s just speculation). Removed Snake and ICs. Overall, I’m not very impressed with this game thus far.

Characters – None at the moment, but I may try out Marth, Mewtwo and/or Lucas in the future.

The Verdict:

Melee is da best, nothing will compare. Project M is pretty good too. Brawl is actually better than diehard Melee fans make it out to be. Smash 64 is fun to play with friends, but lacks content. Still undecided on Smash 4.

For Smash skeptics, this may change your mind (or at least make you rethink preconceived notions). If you like Smash already, it’s still an interesting analysis of Melee: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qxVDOc-oV8

Why Melee is the best: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpyYdMNKknk

Why I still believe in Brawl: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBGffJfBkd0

@-snip-

You can't really say that SSB4 is not as good if you haven't played it.

Anyway, they got rid of Subspace because they didn't want leaked cutscenes. Stupid, but yeah that was more or less the reason I believe

Once you've played smash 4, it's quite likely that you'll change your mind about 64 being a party game.[/user]

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On smashboards, some people have been saying that Marth is 2nd if not top tier in melee.

On smashboards, some people have been saying that Marth is 2nd if not top tier in melee.

I hear that Smash Boards hasn't been good lately, and also, yea, i can believe them at some points

I definitely think that Marth is #2 in Melee -- Falco is certainly no Fox. Fox is top of the list for many reasons, mainly because of the versatility and reliable KO potential of his shine. While Marth is decent against Fox, he has a terrible time against Sheik, and surprisingly against Link and a couple other low-tier characters. Also, a large part of the matchup depends on the Marth player's ability to successfully initiate and maintain throw combos on Fox. In contrast, Fox's only solid counter is Falco, and even then Mango is the only Falco player who has been able to take down top-level Fox players. Additionally, Marth relies (mostly) on either aggressive aerial play or defensive ground play at any given time, while there are a great variety of successful Fox playstyles: ground Foxes (Chillin), aerial Foxes (Leffen), aggressive Foxes (Mango), campy Foxes (Toph), physical Foxes (SFAT), technical Foxes (Mew2King), and many more. While these examples generalize each player and they obviously incorporate other elements into their playstyle, it just shows that there are many viable options available to the character. While both of of Marth's main playstyles are nonetheless very effective, Fox has many more options available to him than Marth, and I think we'll see a lot more development of that character in the future. I'm not saying Marth has peaked yet, but he just doesn't have the wide variety of reliable tools that Fox does. So, much as I prefer playing Marth to Fox, it's difficult for me to rank Fox below him.

Tl;dr: Fox is the best character in Melee. Marth is a close second.

Edit - As far as the Fox v. Marth matchup goes, Fox has a slightly better neutral game while Marth has a slightly better punish game. Fox is good at chip damage while Marth is good at chaingrabs. Fox is great at platform movement while Marth is great at tech chasing. Fox can approach easily while Marth can gimp easily. Fox can bait into a waveshine while Marth can bait into a combo. Fox has a good shinespike but Marth has a better recovery. Fox has the advantage on Stadium, Dream Land and Yoshi's while Marth has the advantage on FD, Battlefield and Fountain. It's tough to gauge who is better in a straight matchup because each character can beat the other a different way. Ultimately it's 50/50 in a 1v1.

Alright, I think it's about time I share why I think Brawl is a much more competitive game and more fun to watch than Smash 4, which I find boring to watch

Now it's time to face facts, ever thought why competitive Smash 4 has 2 stocks and 6 min. time, think about how the Blast Zones were extended (making DI easier to do), "magnetic" ledge grabs, the removal of Edge-Hogging, buffed recoveries, infinite air dodging, and "buffed" defensive play just prolongs the matches, making it actually slightly harder to K.O. anybody, making it to easy to survive.

Think about it, I know Brawl had some of the problems i just listed, but recoveries had to be timed, because of Edge-Hogging was still a thing, ledges weren't magnetic, recoveries weren't as "op", and I think air dodging into the ground didn't give you landing lag (correct me), the only thing that was harming competitive Brawl was the tripping. Lastly the Brawl rule set was 3 stock 8 min if that has to prove anything as Melee/PM is 4 stock and 8 mins and 64 is 5 stock.

Alright, I think it's about time I share why I think Brawl is a much more competitive game and more fun to watch than Smash 4, which I find boring to watch

 

Now it's time to face facts, ever thought why competitive Smash 4 has 2 stocks and 6 min. time, I think I about how the Blast Zones were extended (making DI easier to do), "magnetic" ledge grabs, the removal of Edge-Hogging, buffed recoveries, infinite air dodging, and "buffed" defensive play, just prolongs the matches, making it actually slightly harder to K.O. anybody, making it to easy to survive.

 

Think about, I know Brawl had some of the problems i just listed, but recoveries had to be timed, because of Edge-Hogging was still a thing, ledges weren't magnetic, recoveries weren't as "op", and I think air dodging into the ground didn't give you landing lag (correct me), the only thing that was harming competitive Brawl was the tripping. Lastly the Brawl rule set was 3 stock 8 min if that has to prove anything as Melee/PM is 4 stock and 8 mins and 64 is 5 stock.

Tripping COMPLETELY ruined Brawl for me. The gravity is stupid and you have a broken character.

Tripping COMPLETELY ruined Brawl for me. The gravity is stupid and you have a broken character.

every fighting game has their "broken" character and Smash 4 is not an exception

every fighting game has their "broken" character and Smash 4 is not an exception

At least the broken characters in the other games weren't banned from tournaments.

At least the broken characters in the other games weren't banned from tournaments.

To be fair, Brawl was released January 2008, and Meta Knight was banned from tournaments in January 2012 (four years later). Sm4sh was only released this past October -- the meta hasn't developed enough yet to determine whether any characters are consistently OP . . . but Diddy Kong's looking pretty badass right now. He's certainly no Meta Knight, but my guess is that he'll be the next Melee Fox unless Nintendo nerfs him in a future update.