Tough Break Update

[Moosty 148]

Time to complain about the world ending

[Ms.Spooks 56]

Ok let's start with phlog pyros.. I'm no pyro main yet but what's my motivation when the options are w+m1 or lose. What were they thinking buffing it AND making them fully immortal while doing it? I feel like the teams with the most pyros basically win.

Degreaser was the one weapon that required skill but it got over killed with the air blast nerf. The +%10 reduction to damage was worth the utility that degreaser provided. Since it wasn't really used for killing anyways, Why nerf afterburn! the whole point of the weapon was the afterburn + airblast + weapon swap. Axetinguisher was basically an upgrade to every level it deserved it's nerfs. On the bright-side at least we have the overpriced pink flamethrower.

Rest in pieces engie too (my current main) I mean the jag was pretty op to the point of being an upgrade to stock. the rescue ranger already was having trouble saving sentries after the nerf to wrangler in gunmettle. Now sentries have a down time after sapping means that as long as the spy can sap, a soldier can just walk in and destroy everything. Engies are very underwhelming right now because it feels like everyone counters you before you can even hit level 3.

Also the reserve shooter deserved every nerf that came it's way. It was being used soley to kill anyone in the air instead of with your primary weapon. Now it requires skill and it's not a crutch so that's nice.

 

TL;DR

Screw phlog pyros, Rip engie, reserve shooter no longer a crutch.

[Goblins 580]

Ok let's start with phlog pyros.. I'm no pyro main yet but what's my motivation when the options are w+m1 or lose. What were they thinking buffing it AND making them fully immortal while doing it? I feel like the teams with the most pyros basically win.

Degreaser was the one weapon that required skill but it got over killed with the air blast nerf. The +%10 reduction to damage was worth the utility that degreaser provided. Since it wasn't really used for killing anyways, Why nerf afterburn! the whole point of the weapon was the afterburn + airblast + weapon swap. Axetinguisher was basically an upgrade to every level it deserved it's nerfs. On the bright-side at least we have the overpriced pink flamethrower.

Rest in pieces engie too (my current main) I mean the jag was pretty op to the point of being an upgrade to stock. the rescue ranger already was having trouble saving sentries after the nerf to wrangler in gunmettle. Now sentries have a down time after sapping means that as long as the spy can sap, a soldier can just walk in and destroy everything. Engies are very underwhelming right now because it feels like everyone counters you before you can even hit level 3.

Also the reserve shooter deserved every nerf that came it's way. It was being used soley to kill anyone in the air instead of with your primary weapon. Now it requires skill and it's not a crutch so that's nice.

 

TL;DR

Screw phlog pyros, Rip engie, reserve shooter no longer a crutch.

 

The thing is, pyro still isn't that bad. He got hit where the sunshine resides, but he still stands tall. While they took away his power to combo (puff n' sting), pyro can still output damage. I have had no issue within the past couple days using the decreaser and stock shotgun. It's slower by a noticeable ammount, but the switching is still faster than any other flamethrower (which is really nice). The damage reduction on the degreaser was removed, which means you can w+m1 a person to a remote location just fine and finish them off there. Now Valve didn't do anything with the flare guns. That honestly surprised me. The random crits on top of the set crits seemed broken. I remember the TF2 subreddit worrying hard about a potential nerf for the flare guns. Glad they didn't. The axtinguisher got nerfed for the hell of it. I don't know many pyro mains who actually used that. Most of them still used the powerjack for the mobility. +25% move speed is help, especially in competitive events like Highlander. Even though the axtinguisher got nerfed a few updates before Tough Break, it's finally done.

 

Over all I think pyro is more of a utility now rather than someone to be offensive. Deal damage where you can, but air-blast teammates that are on fire, spy check, reflect projectiles, etc. It's a new age of pyro that I hope will be reverted somewhat, but I can only hope.

[Thorax_ 539]

I said it doesnt blend because it cost too much o3o

[Hushpuppy 104]

but the warbird case is really cool so fuck game balance.

[Thorax_ 539]

idk

Edited December 20, 2015 by Guest (see edit history)

[Fink 64]

good update.

 

First of all, I can see why they buffed the phlog. Before you yell at me and say IT WAS OP BEFORE AND OP NOW, theres reasons. Yes, its unbalanced and was always unbalanced in pubs. In comp, it was awful. A comp pyro is mostly used for airblast. They airblast stickies off points, airblast rockets from kritted or ubered sollys, and play a more defensive role. Valve is implementing a matchmaking competitive system, so they try to make weapons viable. Before the phlog was terrible in comp, and while it still is pretty bad, it still could be used a bit more offensively.

 

Second of all, degreaser was op before. It was pretty much a direct upgrade to the flamethrower. Too lazy to explain and justify nerf, so heres this vid by b4nny (you may or may not know him hes a popular tf2 competitive player)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5pZgph_ZaU

 

Third of all, the jag still is really good and the best wrench for startup. Most people use it to build their buildings then suicide to the stock wrench. Before, it was a direct upgrade

 

Fourth, thank GOD they nerfed demoknight. Before, it was annoying, overpowered, and completely broken. (the shields had completely ridiculous defenses, and the zatoichis max health kill was completely broken)

 

Fifth, they made medic more fun so more people would play it. The crossbow buff was pretty good, and the other buffs were also really good.

 

Sixth, they encouraged team work with the extinguish giving health or recharge with jarate, airblast, and mad milk.

 

There's a lot more changes i could go into, but it would take an hour to type up and i cant think of them on the top of my head but id give this update a 9/10 or an 8/10 for some of the more pointless but minor nerfs

Edited December 23, 2015 by Guest (see edit history)

[Ms.Spooks 56]

good update.

 

First of all, I can see why they buffed the phlog. Before you yell at me and say IT WAS OP BEFORE AND OP NOW, theres reasons. Yes, its unbalanced and was always unbalanced in pubs. In comp, it was awful. A comp pyro is mostly used for airblast. They airblast stickies off points, airblast rockets from kritted or ubered sollys, and play a more defensive role. Valve is implementing a matchmaking competitive system, so they try to make weapons viable. Before the phlog was terrible in comp, and while it still is pretty bad, it still could be used a bit more offensively.

 

Second of all, degreaser was op before. It was pretty much a direct upgrade to the flamethrower. Too lazy to explain and justify nerf, so heres this vid by b4nny (you may or may not know him hes a popular tf2 competitive player)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5pZgph_ZaU

 

Third of all, the jag still is really good and the best wrench for startup. Most people use it to build their buildings then sedoku to the stock wrench. Before, it was a direct upgrade

 

Fourth, thank gosh they nerfed demoknight. Before, it was annoying, overpowered, and completely broken. (the shields had completely ridiculous defenses, and the zatoichis max health kill was completely broken)

 

Fifth, they made medic more fun so more people would play it. The crossbow buff was pretty good, and the other buffs were also really good.

 

Sixth, they encouraged team work with the extinguish giving health or recharge with jarate, airblast, and mad milk.

 

There's a lot more changes i could go into, but it would take an hour to type up and i cant think of them on the top of my head but id give this update a 9/10 or an 8/10 for some of the more pointless but minor nerfs

It's not a problem that your argument isn't valid. The problem is that you're assuming that you have a full competent team. In solo play there are play-styles that are more rewarding to the player than others. The problem with the phlog is that it punishes people for trying to fight pyro, while rewarding the pyro for w+m1. As I like to say M1 wins kills, m2 wins games. Assuming you have a team that is competent enough to properly use pyro and face pyro; the phlog is underwhelming. However people don't understand kiting, positioning, and cooperation within a team. In a solo scenario the player only cares about what he/she is doing. It's the same reason why pocket medics exist. Players are selfish. Medic doesn't want to heal scout he barely gets any points compared to the heavy mowing the enemy team. With pyro why use m2 when it doesn't directly get kills.(Obviously I disagree with that statement but that's the commonplace for most pyros.) The problem is that you can sit at their spawn and get free kills. You will never have to back because of your free health and your enemy can't stay back far enough for them not to be crit to death. The only counter play to phlog is to stay away from phlog. Also please don't try to argue that you can "run away" from the pyro that you clearly see taunt. Most of the time They come out of nowhere and rush your team with crits and only the scout and medic can back peddle fast enough to not get instantly burned to smithereens, and that's assuming he doesn't rush spawn where you can't leave now for a valuable few seconds.

 

The degreaser was basically a go-to upgrade to the flamethrower. It implemented "combo" type play style that made pyros feel skillful for properly using their other weapons and spacing. My problem still stands that the airblast nerf hits where it counts for me, because m2 wins games. However I can understand why it needed to have that nerf.

 

The jag needed the nerf it was a direct upgrade. It's barely noticeable to a competent engie. Plus it does it's job of a quick set up for aggressive play or fast defenses.

 

Demoknights are annoying. They are a less stealthy, less skilled spy. However as I like to continue to point out to people, the zatoichi now overheals in exchange for crits. The crits were stupid and I won't miss em. Now I feel rewarded for using the zatoichi well enough that I can go on a 10 kill streak and still be over healed. it's not as "nerfed" as people say because now it's not a luck based weapon.

 

Medics needed those buffs.

 

And for your last point. I love that feature being added. I like feeling rewarded for helping my team. Unfortunately not many people like to help others and prefer to go on killing rampages. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink, or in this case heal and refund cooldown. It comes down to the competence of the people you're playing with.

 

Overall I agree with you it's a pretty good update, but it's too difficult to forgive glaring balance issues. The phlog is too strong for solo play. Heavy is one of the most underwhelming classes and he never gets any attention by the valve gods. He still has no reliable mobility, no real utility for teamplay, and no ranged options available for his kit. Engineers keep getting nerfs to items that only skilled engies used anyways. Pyro got unnecessary buffs to ranged damage(encouraging w+m1) and of course the nightmare to face that is the phlog. Assuming you're a rational player you can at least understand why the community is outraged by the changes.

[Thunder 79]

Obviously they should buff the phlog 10 times more.

[Fink 64]

It's not a problem that your argument isn't valid. The problem is that you're assuming that you have a full competent team. In solo play there are play-styles that are more rewarding to the player than others. The problem with the phlog is that it punishes people for trying to fight pyro, while rewarding the pyro for w+m1. As I like to say M1 wins kills, m2 wins games. Assuming you have a team that is competent enough to properly use pyro and face pyro; the phlog is underwhelming. However people don't understand kiting, positioning, and cooperation within a team. In a solo scenario the player only cares about what he/she is doing. It's the same reason why pocket medics exist. Players are selfish. Medic doesn't want to heal scout he barely gets any points compared to the heavy mowing the enemy team. With pyro why use m2 when it doesn't directly get kills.(Obviously I disagree with that statement but that's the commonplace for most pyros.) The problem is that you can sit at their spawn and get free kills. You will never have to back because of your free health and your enemy can't stay back far enough for them not to be crit to death. The only counter play to phlog is to stay away from phlog. Also please don't try to argue that you can "run away" from the pyro that you clearly see taunt. Most of the time They come out of nowhere and rush your team with crits and only the scout and medic can back peddle fast enough to not get instantly burned to smithereens, and that's assuming he doesn't rush spawn where you can't leave now for a valuable few seconds.

 

The degreaser was basically a go-to upgrade to the flamethrower. It implemented "combo" type play style that made pyros feel skillful for properly using their other weapons and spacing. My problem still stands that the airblast nerf hits where it counts for me, because m2 wins games. However I can understand why it needed to have that nerf.

 

The jag needed the nerf it was a direct upgrade. It's barely noticeable to a competent engie. Plus it does it's job of a quick set up for aggressive play or fast defenses.

 

Demoknights are annoying. They are a less stealthy, less skilled spy. However as I like to continue to point out to people, the zatoichi now overheals in exchange for crits. The crits were stupid and I won't miss em. Now I feel rewarded for using the zatoichi well enough that I can go on a 10 kill streak and still be over healed. it's not as "nerfed" as people say because now it's not a luck based weapon.

 

Medics needed those buffs.

 

And for your last point. I love that feature being added. I like feeling rewarded for helping my team. Unfortunately not many people like to help others and prefer to go on killing rampages. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink, or in this case heal and refund cooldown. It comes down to the competence of the people you're playing with.

 

Overall I agree with you it's a pretty good update, but it's too difficult to forgive glaring balance issues. The phlog is too strong for solo play. Heavy is one of the most underwhelming classes and he never gets any attention by the valve gods. He still has no reliable mobility, no real utility for teamplay, and no ranged options available for his kit. Engineers keep getting nerfs to items that only skilled engies used anyways. Pyro got unnecessary buffs to ranged damage(encouraging w+m1) and of course the nightmare to face that is the phlog. Assuming you're a rational player you can at least understand why the community is outraged by the changes.

 

gewd points

[ArminArmout 129]

we should talk about the mannrobics taunt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIfAkOBMf5A

best taunt ever

Edited December 24, 2015 by Guest (see edit history)

[Insane 2]

Oooooo boi let me get this off my chest

 

Valve u fo real bra ? Why the pyro buff? Pyro was already OP AF I'm still waiting for them to completely remove the pyro.

 

Since the phlog update there are AT LEAST 4 pyros on 1 team. Like nig for real? Before the pyro buff I played pubs that had no pyros ( it was amazing ).

 

Now if you are a pyro main that's fine cause u know how to use mouse2 but o SHIZ the phlog pyros are everywhere. There is no way to kill them. I was able to sidestab, corner stab them but now the phlog does 100% more damage it basically 1 shots you. You can only kill them by dropstabs. That because they to busy w+m1 so they don't check the sky. *bunch of idiots*

 

Also where is the love for spy? When was the last time spy got a buff ????? Like it's been nerfs every update. They nerfed the dead ringer and no one has noticed ???? Prob cause all those shitty pyros be complaining that spy is "OP" when in reality they just a bad at their class.

 

Dear valve,

Remove the pyro and show the spy some love.

 

Sincerely

InSane | Spy main