Being out of cell...

[Hidingmaster 19]

So there are two big issues regarding being out of your cell.

 

1) Being out of your cell before warden says "Out of cell rebel" is a grey area. The problem I have with this is when you get out of your cell before it was said, and then warden says it which leads CT's to kill you nearly everytime. It doesn't make sense to be considered a rebel if you were out of your cell before it was said. We need something to clear this up, either having out of cell rebel implied, or having something in the MOTD say that if a T is out before it is said then they cannot be killed.

 

Example of when this happens:

 

You get out of your cell without breaking or going through a vent, like in the vip cell in blackops (i think thats the map), and you run to go open cells. Warden says out of cell rebel when you are halfway there, so a CT sees you outside of your cell and kills you. Obviously you were out of the cell well before, thus not really a rebel...

 

2) Being out of cells before a time to leave cells is given for a warday. I swear this happens 90% of the time there is a warday. Warden will say "We will be having a warday in XXXX" *Cells opened, with a few T's leaving* "Don't leave until X:XX". Obviously saying out of cell rebel makes them rebels for leaving, but what about the times when it isn't said. This needs to be cleared up in the MOTD.

 

Its late so those descriptions probably suck, but i can clarify if needed.

 

My ideas:

 

Make out of cell rebel implied (you would be in real life) I know this is a drastic thought, but seriously think about it

-Obviously a little disadvantage to T's

-But there are a lot of benefits to this (no more arguing over if it was said or not, don't have to worry about freekills from it, clears up a lot of grey areas)

 

Make sure the MOTD clearly says if a T is out before it is said, they are not a rebel and are pardoned/allowed to return to a cell OR freeday?

 

NOTE: This does not apply when most of the T's are out, it is a problem when 1 or 2 are out.

[McNeo 3]

+1

 

Out of cell rebel should be implied, period.

 

I think everyone would agree that once warden says "1 step out afk freeze" etc that any T that's somewhere else is considered a rebel anyway. Implying this at the beginning of the round would clear up confusion.

 

A bigger issue I could see though is if a T were able to open cells before orders were given it would still be a freeday, so do we just go on good faith on this or what?

[ItsAaron 1]

I agree completely. Even on maps when a T has gone through a cell though, if it wasn't observed then they aren't rebels, but this same shit happens. I can't tell you how many times it's happened to me on carceris, when I've left iso which is right next to armoury, but then been shot whether out of cell rebel has been called or not. Leads me to raaaaaaage D:

 

I think an automatic pardon is a good idea, where the T has to go into the nearest available cell or else can be killed as a rebel, but the only problem is people leaving after its called and saying "PARDON ME I WAS OUT BEFORE IT WAS CALLED".

 

Having it implied is the best solution I'd say by far.

 

EDIT: P.S. +1

[Digitalhax 0]

takes too long to type out "pardon me i was out before warden said this" then for everyone to realize this, just wont ever work. the only fix would be implied, so t's wont make the mistake. I could've sworn its ALWAYS been implied, except with this server

[DarkNova 0]

@@Chrono @@TChief

 

I want your inputs on this regarding out of cell rebel for our division. I have seen this occur in our CS:GO and would like it if we can find a resolution to this issue.

 

Usually when we see players out of the cells before "Out of cell Rebel" is called, we give the whole T side a free day. Regarding the War-Day Issue I have heard that they open cells and then they say you must leave by XX:XX which is a bit frustrating as it leads to unnecessary free kills and puts stress to mods/admins for a warden not giving correct orders.

[Rhododendron 994]

@@Neo

[ItsAaron 1]

I'm the one who mentioned this when me mcneo and hiding were playing, and he gets all the thread making glory. Bastard

[Neo 0]

1) In reality if someone commits a crime that isn't a crime yet, they don't get charged cause we dont have an applicable law. I think the same logic can apply here. There are numerous maps where you can push a button and get out to try to let your fellow prisoners out. The CT should be able to use the logic, oh he's out of his cell before out of cell rebel was called. However could he have done that? And not kill the poor prisoner. If a T has escaped before out of cell rebel was called then they are not a rebel! If the T does not make it to open the cells in time, the warden should gain control of the situation by making him go back and comply with the future orders. I don't think it should be a standard addition to the motd, if the CT's can't get their act together call warden and the person say out of cell rebel, then they should suffer a terrible fate and learn to be better wardens from it.

 

2) In your second instance I feel as if the Warden can easily complete his orders before he opens the cells, or instructs his fellow CT to open the cells for him. If we keep with the old way of having to say out of cell rebel and it isn't said, then the CT's would pardon those individual T's. If we go with your proposed new idea of Out of cell rebel being implied then that nullifies this second point.

[Hidingmaster 19]

The issue is that those T's that do get out before its called are never pardoned/let go back to their cells, this happens because the warden will say out of cell rebel, but there are always CT's that hear that, then see the few T's out and kill them. The problem isn't really when T's are out before it is called but after (even though they were out before). And as mods it's very hard to slay those CT's for freekilling since we're always looking at armory or specing the CT's.

 

I understand where you are coming from neo, but I think the benefits of adding out of cell rebel as being implied when warden is called would solve more than this problem.

 

1) No more arguing over if it was said or not

2) Huge reduction in freekilled at the beginning of rounds

3) Reduces number of freedays, which I think have been a problem recently

4) It just kind makes sense to be a rebel if you escape from your cell

5) Makes it a little easier on the warden and CT's, since they don't have to worry about knowing if the t that was outside of his cell is a rebel or not (so it would make the beginning of rounds smoother)

[Warriorsfury 12]

I feel as if this rule is fine. Neo pretty much said what I was going to say. The warden should take control and tell the t that was out before out of cell rebel was called to freeze.

[Hidingmaster 19]

I feel as if this rule is fine. Neo pretty much said what I was going to say. The warden should take control and tell the t that was out before out of cell rebel was called to freeze.

 

But this is the issue, it doesn't happen, because the warden is focused on other things. It's the other CT's doing the killing, and if we slay its always a huge argument. I honestly thing having it implied would be a huge benefit..

[Chrono 372]

but having it implied removes unofficial freedays, and i would die without them.

 

as for wardays: @A51Nova if a time is not issued for Ts to leave the cells BEFORE they are opened I personally along with many others have made it so that the Ts are allowed to leave, a time should be given before they press the button to open them.

[ItsAaron 1]

Like Hiding said, the biggest problem is that no matter how many people get slain for freekilling, or most of the time not because it can't be proven, so muchhhh shit is caused against mods that it can go on for the entire round and beyond. It'd be infinitely easier to have it implied, because whether the warden should take control or not, the escaping T is gonna get shot by someone

[Tsuchikure 38]

Yeah, im going with 1), It's happened quite a bit and starts a couple of fights, as well as making the T's very angry. Nobody calls warden - T escapes cell, almost at button... - CTs come out of armory, look at T (1 of 2 things will happen) either: A derp CT will assume it was called, and freekill the T. OR: Someone will freak out and instantly call out of cell rebel, kill the T, and get on with the round as if nothing happened. Very annoying, can't they have an invalid freeday for once?

 

I'm trying to comprehend this late at night what you guys have just been saying what i've been reading is "Freekilling at beginning of rounds.." "Applying out of cell rebel" etc etc etc.

 

But i personally think, If that happens (#2), The T should be told to return to the nearest cell by the Warden. Because it was not his fault for leaving the cell due to the CTs are just too much of slowasses to call it before they even so much as left the armory.

[Forest 309]

I believe I raised this question before with Neo in a thread concerning questions about Jailbreak in general. I agree 100% with what Neo says, and I can see what everyone is getting at in saying that it should be implied. However; adding a rule in which makes "out of cell rebel" implied just ruins the entire invalid freedays which I think would be just wrong.

 

Honestly, about 90% if not more of CTs will kill a T outside of their cell even if the order was given afterhand. It's just an instinct that you get as a CT, and i'm sure it's happened several times to many of you as well. You don't Mean to do it, it just happens. Regarding this issue, there is no reason to add a rule which basically exterminates invalid freedays Just so that there is clarification that a kill is justified. In most cases, this situation only happens 20% of the time from what i've seen. Why add a rule that may drastically change jailbreak when it's over something as small as a possible freekill when you know the risk of doing it?

 

The intention to rebel was there Anyways, you take the risk knowing that going for that cell button may get you killed. You Know the consequences. If you feel so strongly about this, then just don't even take the risk, or call out the offending CT on it telling him why the kill wasn't justified.

 

I personally don't see the reason to add yet another rule into the motd when it involves so little a problem.

 

- Dat guy, Forest

 

PS: -1