Xg:m| Sans-ta Claus - Team Fortress 2

[cream_gravy 0]

Division:

Team Fortress 2

Staff Name:

xG:M| sans-ta claus

Staff's Steam ID:

STEAM_0:1:57115901

Evidence:

I keep getting muted by Armin (aka sans-ta claus) for saying slurs such as "nigga" or "fag". I have some gyazos (images) of a friend, Nightstar (aka Calico Kitty) saying stuff in a jokingly manner, such as mine.

 

Gyazo - 6f2f5f1181db56cacefb5ee9d781a0be.png

Gyazo - 447ca2d6c04153af194238a7de58e3bf.png

 

I have been muted for short times by Armin before, for reasons such as "trolling" or "ghosting" (once) for (on JB1) telling people the LCT's health when I died. Just a few days ago, Ohstopyou told me that it is NOT considered ghosting. Anyways, I digress.

 

Today I was muted for 51 hours for "slurring" (check the gyazo's above ^)

 

I honestly think that this mute was unneeded, since I only replied to a slur with a slur. The other person got off scot-free and i got off with a 51 hour mute. Unfair.

 

I don't know what I want to happen with this claim... Either me being unmuted or Armin demoted... or both.

Further Information:

I'm pretty sure Armin has something against me, but I think it's just because I have recalled he/she saying he/she was transexual, and when I use the word "tranny" he/she calls ti a slur. Anyways, that's off topic.

[Ohstopyou 42]

What you said was a joke (you didn't say a slur). I don't think those gags were needed.

 

Whats up? @ArminArmout

[Moosty 148]

Neutral so far want to hear Armin's side

[ArminArmout 129]

Ok, so what happened, cream uses slurs alot, i warn him every time he does them, more than 10 times, and I know sometimes I don't see them. I didn't see the context of this one being a joke, and I'm sorry for missing the context. I've had to warn cream many times, and gag them a lot so I put an longer gag this time.

[Haruka 88]

Usually I go by, if you know there's kids on the server, (i.e. Sirflahses little brother) watch what you say. I don't know the situation in which you were gagged, but that's just my policy.

[cream_gravy 0]

Usually I go by, if you know there's kids on the server, (i.e. Sirflahses little brother) watch what you say. I don't know the situation in which you were gagged, but that's just my policy.

 

I had no indication of either of them being online. There were no young players ever talking on the mic, so I had no idea if any young players were even online.

[Forest 309]

If a player is going to be punished for using a racial slur, then any other player who uses that same racial slur should be treated the same way. That being said, I'm more concerned as to why someone is being muted/gagged for 51 hours. Now, I don't know if this is just a TF2 specific thing, but assuming it isn't:

 

Mutes/gags of any kind should only ever last until the end of the round, assuming the player was issued a warning before-hand. If they persist, then the punishment is escalated to a kick. After that, it becomes a Server ban for a minimum of a day (depending on the severity and nature of the rules being broken) but typically should only last an hour or two. At no time should a mute/gag be given for predetermined amounts of time (IE. 51 hours), provided this isn't a TF2 Division specific rule (which conflicts with our general Server Admin Handbook). Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is a gross misuse of the command.

[Chrono 372]

or you could just not use slurs in any way whatsoever. you may think they are funny jokes, and others may not. IMO armin did the right thing in muting you for things like those (granted i cant see the images they are errors for me, but moosty said they were used in a joking manner implying there were indeed slurs.) just that a smaller mute should have been issued for a first time mute.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Guest (see edit history)

[Ohstopyou 42]

I think the reason why the gag is 51 hours is that people forget that ban time is measured in minutes, not seconds, so they end up putting waaaaay too many numbers.

[Forest 309]

I think the reason why the gag is 51 hours is that people forget that ban time is measured in minutes, not seconds, so they end up putting waaaaay too many numbers.

Either way, Staff should remember standard protocol when dealing with rule breakers; warn > gag/mute > kick > ban. I'm not saying anything was skipped, but jumping to 51 hours (albeit unclear whether this was intentional or not, it can't be ruled out that it was) against one player for a racial slur when the same phrase/slur was used by another player without them receiving a warning/mute/gag isn't justified. In other words, equal punishment for equal crimes with case-by-case exceptions.

 

Though I strongly agree with Chrono; slurs just shouldn't be used at all, including those that are used to bypass other 'major' slurs (IE. Negroes > Niggers). Reason being that if exceptions are continuously made it just makes it that much more difficult to enforce. Moderating is already difficult without introducing more exceptions like "if minors are on" or "if it's just a variation of the word" which makes it that much more difficult to regulate. Another place for another time though, as this is a Abuse Report. Though I will point out that if the following is true, Armin needs to be reminded that Staff are expected to remain calm and collected when dealing with rule-breakers, not to single them out with extended ban times or unjustified punishments because they use a slur that the Staff Member takes personal offence to (I'm not saying it's alright to let a slur be used, just merely reminding Staff not to let their own emotions get the best of them):

I'm pretty sure Armin has something against me, but I think it's just because I have recalled he/she saying he/she was transexual, and when I use the word "tranny" he/she calls ti a slur.

 

All in all, 51 hours seems over-the-top in my own personal opinion, especially since it is a mute/gag. Reason being that it's just outright too long and it does have the potential to interrupt the gameflow, assuming he plays on Jailbreak (IE. Unable to play Trivia games, etc). As previously mentioned, gags/mutes should only ever be left until the end of the round (or in this case with TF2 an hour at the most or whatever the Higher-Up(s) deems fit; a sub-rule should be made covering this). If the user continues to break the rules, then the next step would be to kick/ban them from the Server for a predetermined amount of time.

 

Sorry for the long post, but there's one more thing I'd like to mention: I'm not here to call Armin a bad Staff Member or anything of the sort; I would be saying the same thing were it anyone else. I'm just here to suggest ways of improvement and to give my personal opinion on the whole matter. As with every other post I make, none of this should be taken personally.

 

TL;DR (now in new and improved bullet form!)

• Even if he was previously warned for past actions, 51 hours is too long an amount of time to remain muted/gagged; he should be unmuted/ungagged, or his friend and him should share the same reduced time for use of racial slurs.
  
• Racial slurs should not be tolerated in any shape or form (this includes "negro" or anything else that may be offensive. It's a PG13 Server)
  
• If he is being punished for racial slurs of that magnitude, then anyone else using the same slurs should receive equal warning/punishment
  
• A sub-rule for muting/gagging should be made specifically for TF2 since some of the Servers do not operate on 'rounds'
  
• Contents of this post should not be taken personally, it is all based on opinion and what we have set in place as rules
  

[xGShadowSpy 108]

Either way, Staff should remember standard protocol when dealing with rule breakers; warn > gag/mute > kick > ban. I'm not saying anything was skipped, but jumping to 51 hours (albeit unclear whether this was intentional or not, it can't be ruled out that it was) against one player for a racial slur when the same phrase/slur was used by another player without them receiving a warning/mute/gag isn't justified. In other words, equal punishment for equal crimes with case-by-case exceptions.

 

Though I strongly agree with Chrono; slurs just shouldn't be used at all, including those that are used to bypass other 'major' slurs (IE. Negroes > africans). Reason being that if exceptions are continuously made it just makes it that much more difficult to enforce. Moderating is already difficult without introducing more exceptions like "if minors are on" or "if it's just a variation of the word" which makes it that much more difficult to regulate. Another place for another time though, as this is a Abuse Report. Though I will point out that if the following is true, Armin needs to be reminded that Staff are expected to remain calm and collected when dealing with rule-breakers, not to single them out with extended ban times or unjustified punishments because they use a slur that the Staff Member takes personal offence to (I'm not saying it's alright to let a slur be used, just merely reminding Staff not to let their own emotions get the best of them):

 

 

All in all, 51 hours seems over-the-top in my own personal opinion, especially since it is a mute/gag. Reason being that it's just outright too long and it does have the potential to interrupt the gameflow, assuming he plays on Jailbreak (IE. Unable to play Trivia games, etc). As previously mentioned, gags/mutes should only ever be left until the end of the round (or in this case with TF2 an hour at the most or whatever the Higher-Up(s) deems fit; a sub-rule should be made covering this). If the user continues to break the rules, then the next step would be to kick/ban them from the Server for a predetermined amount of time.

 

Sorry for the long post, but there's one more thing I'd like to mention: I'm not here to call Armin a bad Staff Member or anything of the sort; I would be saying the same thing were it anyone else. I'm just here to suggest ways of improvement and to give my personal opinion on the whole matter. As with every other post I make, none of this should be taken personally.

 

TL;DR (now in new and improved bullet form!)

• Even if he was previously warned for past actions, 51 hours is too long an amount of time to remain muted/gagged; he should be unmuted/ungagged, or his friend and him should share the same reduced time for use of racial slurs.
  
• Racial slurs should not be tolerated in any shape or form (this includes "negro" or anything else that may be offensive. It's a PG13 Server)
  
• If he is being punished for racial slurs of that magnitude, then anyone else using the same slurs should receive equal warning/punishment
  
• A sub-rule for muting/gagging should be made specifically for TF2 since some of the Servers do not operate on 'rounds'
  
• Contents of this post should not be taken personally, it is all based on opinion and what we have set in place as rules
  

:british: