[poll] Remove Or Keep Trade_nimbusland On Trade Gaming History

[Rejects 81]

As per this thread, it is known that the Blu team is heavily spawn camped by the Reds on this map, The thread had votes on both sides of the spectrum (remove or keep).

 

This Poll will stay up for 14 days and when it closes whichever side gets the most votes the map will be kept/removed, The decision of this will be final

 

 

Please keep the discussion clean

 

 

@Bello @Goblins @Moosty @TheSupremePatriot @Vexx @Vixen @Kitsune @Vector @BananaShoes @Tomahawk @SnowyMinion

[Vector 138]

for some reason i can't vote but my vote is to keep nimbus.

[Reptile 149]

I'm going to go ahead and put a vote towards keeping it. I do like the map a good bit, and not just for the hallway camping or nostalgia.

[Thorax_ 539]

Since when does nimbus get chosen for next map anyway, lmao

[Kitsune 18]

Rejects, wasn't the whole debate on nimbus due to skill, not map design? If we removed a map on the sheer notion of "Oh, RED can spawncamp BLU", we'd be removing, say, Click Clock Wood, Clocktown, Rusty Bucket Bay.. on the same basis.

 

Case in point; There are a lot of maps that wouldn't play very well if we cared for the balancing. I personally think that it'd be a bad idea to remove a map just because it wasn't good for competitive play, specifically because TGH is Trade Gaming History; A.K.A, a trade server. If people have a problem with the balance and fighting, then they can just go !friendly.

Skill discrepancy is the name of the game here, folks, and if we start to remove maps because of it, it's going to cause a major backdraft in map quality.

That's my opinion. Any thoughts?

[MurphytheMedic 0]

As a guy who only plays trade every once in awhile, I honestly think this map serves to hurt and hinder the growth of the server population.

[Moosty 148]

Rejects, wasn't the whole debate on nimbus due to skill, not map design?

Skill discrepancy is the name of the game here, folks

That's my opinion. Any thoughts?

My opinion is that not only are you wrong, you're doing it on purpose to mislead. The map design favors red and it takes no skill to shoot down an area as wide as two playermodels. No amount of skill will reflect a bison projectile, and It will go through the entire team. It's not a skill based difference, atleast on nimbus, whatsoever.

[Kitsune 18]

My opinion is that not only are you wrong, you're doing it on purpose to mislead. The map design favors red and it takes no skill to shoot down an area as wide as two playermodels. No amount of skill will reflect a bison projectile, and It will go through the entire team. It's not a skill based difference, atleast on nimbus, whatsoever.

 

1. You can use that same advantage against RED. They will come to you.

2. On purpose to mislead? What? I'm speaking from experience, Moosty. Yes, the RED team has the castle, and for some, that is an inherent advantage. But BLU has the entire courtyard to use. Simply take advantage of that fact. After all, RED cannot establish a reliable foothold due to the rule changes. Yes, they can take over one of the houses, but it only takes an Ubercharge to stop them.

3. The first thread was put up because he didn't like that BLU kept getting killed. That can refer to A: Poor Design or B: Skill Discrepancy. His opinion could reliably be on either, perhaps both factors.

4. Can't a Machina projectile also penetrate players? Sure, you can block their critical hits - but you can do the same thing with the Bison, too. The Bison also deals, on average, 46 damage without a critical hit. A critical shot can deal upwards of 120 to 160, but this again relies on:

 

A. Being a Sniper, an Engineer without the Gunslinger, or a Demoman with a Claymore.

 

B. Having absolutely no health increasing items on.

 

C. Taking the entire shot.

You also didn't respond to what I said. If we remove this map due to "Balance", what about the other maps? Why don't you acknowledge the long term?

Edited June 28, 2016 by Guest (see edit history)

[Moosty 148]

1. You can use that same advantage against RED. They will come to you.

2. On purpose to mislead? What? I'm speaking from experience, Moosty. Yes, the RED team has the castle, and for some, that is an inherent advantage. But BLU has the entire courtyard to use. Simply take advantage of that fact. After all, RED cannot establish a reliable foothold due to the rule changes. Yes, they can take over one of the houses, but it only takes an Ubercharge to stop them.

3. The first thread was put up because he didn't like that BLU kept getting killed. That can refer to A: Poor Design or B: Skill Discrepancy. His opinion could reliably be on either, perhaps both factors.

4. Can't a Machina projectile also penetrate players? Sure, you can block their critical hits - but you can do the same thing with the Bison, too. The Bison also deals, on average, 46 damage without a critical hit. A critical shot can deal upwards of 120 to 160, but this again relies on:

 

A. Being a Sniper, an Engineer without the Gunslinger, or a Demoman with a Claymore.

 

B. Having absolutely no health increasing items on.

 

C. Taking the entire shot.

You also didn't respond to what I said. If we remove this map due to "Balance", what about the other maps? Why don't you acknowledge the long term?

Balance isn't the issue, years of complaints are the issue. If the entire server hated clocktown and went through the trouble of official complaints, we would remove it regardless of how I felt about it. The balance is a non issue by itself.

[Kitsune 18]

You still didn't respond to "What about the long term". Reread what I said; If we start removing maps because of competitive balancing instead of bad design (COUGHSPEEDHIGHWAYCOUGH), what then?

 

As I said, we'd end up losing maps like Clocktown, or Rusty Bucket, or Click-Clock, instead of maps that crashed computers or caused major bugs for people, such as Echidna Shrine or Edventures.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Guest (see edit history)

[Moosty 148]

You still didn't respond to "What about the long term". Reread what I said; If we start removing maps because of competitive balancing instead of bad design (COUGHSPEEDHIGHWAYCOUGH), what then?

 

As I said, we'd end up losing maps like Clocktown, or Rusty Bucket, or Click-Clock, instead of maps that crashed computers or caused major bugs for people, such as Echidna Shrine or Edventures.

If you want to talk long term, we've had problems with Nimbus long enough term. What happens if we remove maps for balance? You're claimimg it would be a slippery slope (my all time favorite logocal fallacy tbh) and you're not making a very good argument. If maps cause problems to the extent nimbus does, they should be removed. Saying "if we remove this then we'll have to just remove more then it'll be worse" that was the argument against gay marriage and abortion rights and spoiler alert the people who made those arguments were wrong. What happens long term if we remove nimbus and other unbalanced maps? The server improves.

[Kitsune 18]

If you want to talk long term, we've had problems with Nimbus long enough term. What happens if we remove maps for balance? You're claimimg it would be a slippery slope (my all time favorite logocal fallacy tbh) and you're not making a very good argument. If maps cause problems to the extent nimbus does, they should be removed. Saying "if we remove this then we'll have to just remove more then it'll be worse" that was the argument against gay marriage and abortion rights and spoiler alert the people who made those arguments were wrong. What happens long term if we remove nimbus and other unbalanced maps? The server improves.

 

If we're going to debate that, then we can't forget about the Treaty of Versailles? That led to World War 2 and The Great Depression. Short term solution, long term consequences.

That being said, gay marriage and abortion rights are both good things to of pushed for, and a great example of the circumstances behind a situation. I'm not being conservative on Nimbus because of nostalgia goggles. There are worse maps to be rid of than this one.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Guest (see edit history)

[Thorax_ 539]

And this is where the debate de-rails?

[Caleb956 451]

If we're going to debate that, then we can't forget about the Treaty of Versailles? That led to World War 2 and The Great Depression. Short term solution, long term consequences.

That being said, gay marriage and abortion rights are both good things to of pushed for, and a great example of the circumstances behind a situation. I'm not being conservative on Nimbus because of nostalgia goggles. There are worse maps to be rid of than this one.

 

 

If there are worse maps they must not be too bad since no one else has asked for them to be removed.. If there really is a lot of bad maps then the same thing that happened here could happen with those maps, get a community vote and see what they think. There is clearly a reason why people don't want this map to be removed, and there are clearly reasons why people want this map to be removed. Some people like the map for several different reasons I'm sure, and some people don't like the map due to it being easy to lock an entire team down and getting people angry resulting in people leaving the server. Not too hard really lel

[FenrirTheWolf 2]

This map makes me want to rage quit life every single time I play it, I vote to get it out of here.