xShadowSpyx - Counter-Strike: Source

[Hidingmaster 19]

Alright, the big thing you have to realize shadow is that as a staff member you are a representation of xG, you are the role model. The argument of the punishment being different is attribute to the fact that you are one of the faces of xG. If a non-member did these things it doesn't affect anyone else, but when an admin does it, it can affect everyone who is a staff member. When you got admin you knew that you are in a different spot that is much more important and visible.

 

If all of the things you did were in fact breaking the rules, then it would be a legitimate punishment... But I do question a few of them.

 

1) FR:LR.. I don't see how what you did was wrong at all. It clearly states you cannot do it for lr. In no way did he do it for lr, he did it so he could get it down to a final t, with the two that were exempt. There are 3 left... Did he or did he not do it for lr? He did not.

 

2) wardays: technically the areas were valid as they has 2 entrances, but the one on medic was very cheap and asking for freekilles. I personally don't have a problem with the one in race that dark showed, but this doesn't excuse you from doing it after him telling you not to.

 

3) Ignoring DM's: can't say much about this since I wasn't there, but you gotta listen to them. If you disagree with what they tell you, have a civilized discussion with them. If they ignore you and say your wrong without answers or explanation, bring it to the forums. If you did blatantly ignore them, that can warrent a demotion if its a bad enough situation.

 

4) Trust day: Eh, doesn't bother me very much although I don't like them in general. You know they are going to rebel though, so don't try to make it seem like you had no clue what was going to happen. Yes, it is their choice to rebel, but seriously? Everyone knows that you are doing it to make them rebel.

 

 

I don't know if a demotion was necessary or not, I wasn't there in the discussion between you and the DM's, so I may be missing some information. In my opinion it would have been much easier to give you the ultimatum of: you will be demoted if you do another invalid warday or trust day. At least that is a very clear warning and had you been demoted then, it would have meant that you had no room to argue it. Again, it was up to them to decide at the time the best course of punishment. I just sense that a lot of this occurred out of dislike for each other, so the big question is... Did the bickering and dislike for each other influence the punishment?

 

 

+/- 0 right now until I hear some more.

[Vector 138]

Alright now that i'm charged and awake, I have virtually NEVER see shadowspy be a problem, whether it be moderating or wardening. he has also been an admin for a long while and is consistently active. Now, i'm not saying he shouldn't listen to DMs he clearly understands that he did something wrong, HOWEVER, does this really show he is a bad admin? i mean demotions are generally because the moderater doesn't do his job correctly, or at all. As of late when i'm on i don't really ever see these so called trust days, i just see him moderating and playing very well. a CT ban would be much more necessary then a demotion. +1

[DarkWolf6052 0]

Alright, the big thing you have to realize shadow is that as a staff member you are a representation of xG, you are the role model. The argument of the punishment being different is attribute to the fact that you are one of the faces of xG. If a non-member did these things it doesn't affect anyone else, but when an admin does it, it can affect everyone who is a staff member. When you got admin you knew that you are in a different spot that is much more important and visible.

Agreed.

 

If all of the things you did were in fact breaking the rules, then it would be a legitimate punishment... But I do question a few of them.

 

1) FR:LR.. I don't see how what you did was wrong at all. It clearly states you cannot do it for lr. In no way did he do it for lr, he did it so he could get it down to a final t, with the two that were exempt. There are 3 left... Did he or did he not do it for lr? He did not.

 

It would be about the same thing though. If you exclude a T, whether they're there or not, having two Ts participating in the FR/LR would be very similar to determining LR with it. It would pretty much be a loophole on how to do it down to LR, while not activating LR by playing it.

 

 

2) wardays: technically the areas were valid as they has 2 entrances, but the one on medic was very cheap and asking for freekilles. I personally don't have a problem with the one in race that dark showed, but this doesn't excuse you from doing it after him telling you not to.

 

The first warday inside of race on Tiles, was not valid at all. This was already determined. Two doors can't be open at the same time. One closes, the other opens, and vice versa. This means its a one entrance area that he was warned not to do again.

 

 

3) Ignoring DM's: can't say much about this since I wasn't there, but you gotta listen to them. If you disagree with what they tell you, have a civilized discussion with them. If they ignore you and say your wrong without answers or explanation, bring it to the forums. If you did blatantly ignore them, that can warrent a demotion if its a bad enough situation.

 

4) Trust day: Eh, doesn't bother me very much although I don't like them in general. You know they are going to rebel though, so don't try to make it seem like you had no clue what was going to happen. Yes, it is their choice to rebel, but seriously? Everyone knows that you are doing it to make them rebel.

 

Agreed.

 

I don't know if a demotion was necessary or not, I wasn't there in the discussion between you and the DM's, so I may be missing some information. In my opinion it would have been much easier to give you the ultimatum of: you will be demoted if you do another invalid warday or trust day. At least that is a very clear warning and had you been demoted then, it would have meant that you had no room to argue it. Again, it was up to them to decide at the time the best course of punishment. I just sense that a lot of this occurred out of dislike for each other, so the big question is... Did the bickering and dislike for each other influence the punishment?

 

 

+/- 0 right now until I hear some more.

 

I don't have any problem with Shadowspy. Gkoo and I both agreed Shadowspy was ignoring us after we warned him previously, and finally decided to take action. Shadowspy is pointing out that Serbian said not to treat different people differently; well we aren't. He is being treated the same. We gave our warnings. He ignored our orders. Just because it was done as a CT doesn't make it different. He was a staff member who we expect to be a role model to the lower ranks and other players.

 

-Dat furfag DarkWolf6052

[xGShadowSpy 108]

Alright, the big thing you have to realize shadow is that as a staff member you are a representation of xG, you are the role model. The argument of the punishment being different is attribute to the fact that you are one of the faces of xG. If a non-member did these things it doesn't affect anyone else, but when an admin does it, it can affect everyone who is a staff member. When you got admin you knew that you are in a different spot that is much more important and visible.

Agreed.

 

If all of the things you did were in fact breaking the rules, then it would be a legitimate punishment... But I do question a few of them.

 

1) FR:LR.. I don't see how what you did was wrong at all. It clearly states you cannot do it for lr. In no way did he do it for lr, he did it so he could get it down to a final t, with the two that were exempt. There are 3 left... Did he or did he not do it for lr? He did not.

 

It would be about the same thing though. If you exclude a T, whether they're there or not, having two Ts participating in the FR/LR would be very similar to determining LR with it. It would pretty much be a loophole on how to do it down to LR, while not activating LR by playing it.

 

 

2) wardays: technically the areas were valid as they has 2 entrances, but the one on medic was very cheap and asking for freekilles. I personally don't have a problem with the one in race that dark showed, but this doesn't excuse you from doing it after him telling you not to.

 

The first warday inside of race on Tiles, was not valid at all. This was already determined. Two doors can't be open at the same time. One closes, the other opens, and vice versa. This means its a one entrance area that he was warned not to do again.

 

 

3) Ignoring DM's: can't say much about this since I wasn't there, but you gotta listen to them. If you disagree with what they tell you, have a civilized discussion with them. If they ignore you and say your wrong without answers or explanation, bring it to the forums. If you did blatantly ignore them, that can warrent a demotion if its a bad enough situation.

 

4) Trust day: Eh, doesn't bother me very much although I don't like them in general. You know they are going to rebel though, so don't try to make it seem like you had no clue what was going to happen. Yes, it is their choice to rebel, but seriously? Everyone knows that you are doing it to make them rebel.

 

Agreed.

 

I don't know if a demotion was necessary or not, I wasn't there in the discussion between you and the DM's, so I may be missing some information. In my opinion it would have been much easier to give you the ultimatum of: you will be demoted if you do another invalid warday or trust day. At least that is a very clear warning and had you been demoted then, it would have meant that you had no room to argue it. Again, it was up to them to decide at the time the best course of punishment. I just sense that a lot of this occurred out of dislike for each other, so the big question is... Did the bickering and dislike for each other influence the punishment?

 

 

+/- 0 right now until I hear some more.

 

I don't have any problem with Shadowspy. Gkoo and I both agreed Shadowspy was ignoring us after we warned him previously, and finally decided to take action. Shadowspy is pointing out that Serbian said not to treat different people differently; well we aren't. He is being treated the same. We gave our warnings. He ignored our orders. Just because it was done as a CT doesn't make it different. He was a staff member who we expect to be a role model to the lower ranks and other players.

 

-Dat furfag DarkWolf6052

 

As far as the "Similar to determining LR" part goes, I didn't do it for LR , there is no other real way to put it unless you're trying to find an excuse to make it look bad, Loopholing is exploiting a rule when it doesn't really specify something, then you abuse the part that isn't specified. I saw "You cannot do for LR" and I acted off of that.

The warday in race on tile map, dark is correct, 1 is open at a time, but now that I actually think about it, that doesn't make it not 2 entrances, and it doesn't make the other door stay closed, the Ts can just press the button to open that one RIGHT after the other closes, there's no timer for how long you can open it afterwards as far as I see. So even though 1 is open at a time, it's easy to open the other really fast after the other T goes in, and it's still two entrances, so although I was warned for it, it's still a valid spot.

 

Ignoring DMs- So if a DM tells me not to do something like trivia (that is in the motd) , even though its something in the motd I would have to listen? I would think not. Obviously I have listened to them for the most part, and the only reason I did any of these things (warday in race and trust day on station) over again after being told no is because there is no reason that it shouldn't be allowed. If the only reason it's not allowed is "Because I said so" (from a DM) then wtf? I wouldn't see a point.

Trust Days- The one on blackout was wrong and I haven't done one since, the one on station ISN'T wrong because it's their choice, and yes hidingmaster im sure Ts will rebel, but that's only because they're Ts and that's what they do, I didn't say to go in armory, or imply it, like I said earlier does that mean we cant put them in big cage if it has any vents? It makes no sense. And I didn't ignore darkwolf on the trust days with station, I didn't do it a 2nd time, I moved the spray farther away and had them go into ST room.

@@DarkWolf6052 , yes if another ADMIN did this stuff, he COULD be treated the same, but if you can't treat me the same as someone who doesn't have something like staff powers, you're doing something wrong, you can't change punishment due to ranking in the clan.

@@Hidingmaster What you mentioned about the "Did the bickering and dislike for each other influence the punishment?", as far as darkwolf himself goes, I'd definitely say so, without a single doubt, any time I was on he PURPOSELY sat in spec to get proof on me for the demotion, now I wouldn't mind if it was for a reason other than he WANTED to get me demoted just because I want him demoted.

[Hidingmaster 19]

I dont know whether i would agree with the spot having 2 entrances, because there is only AT MOST 1 open at a time. As long as we have followed that rule its been that it must have 2 entrances that are always able to be entered.

 

Dark, go ahead and quote the motd where it talks about FR:LR then answer the following: Did Shadow's FR:LR stunt allow one of the partcipating T's to get LR? If no, then how was it done for LR?

 

You don't have to "listen" to the DM's, thats up to you. But that doesnt mean you need to go out and disobey what you were just told, if you have an issue with something that we tell you or ask you to stop/start doing, then bring it to the forums and ask the community. You cant just ignore us and think that its fine if you dont agree with it, tell us you disagree then link us to the forum asking everyone else about it.

 

Again I don't really have a say either way with trust days, there really isnt a point to them. The sole purpose of the spot it to get them to rebel, so whatever.

 

As for the issue with Dark sitting in spec, well if that's what truly occurs then thats not right.. not at all. I know we have all done it before (Michael), but it wasnt because there was a grudge.

[xGShadowSpy 108]

Yeah, im just going to stop arguing on here and let it stay on topic, all it's going to do is get things worse/cause a flame war

[Superkiller67 4]

So.I can't keep something to myself this big. For those 2 wardays he got on to get proof. He took off his tags and just started recording. He had friends on the server, (reporting stuff to dark about shadowspy)saying stuff to dark. He told people to get proof so he(shadowspy) can be demoted. You really wanted him demote darkwolf. And thats not right. @@xShadowSpyx @@DarkWolf6052 @@serbiansnaga @@Gkoo @@Forest @@Hidingmaster . darkwolf you been trying to get him demoted for awhile. I feel this was wrong to do. You were targeting him when you join the server not the regulars that could be freekilling. and after one of the wardays you said in ts he will be demoted. Dont hate me for this.

[Forest 309]

The reason you were considered for Demotion and not a CT ban is simply because you are a Staff Member as well as a Member of xG. I'm sorry to say, but there is a form of hierarchy here. It is to be expected that as an Administrator (someone of a far higher rank of a normal player) you know what is right from wrong. Disobeying a Higher-Up is not something that will end well, nor will a CT ban suffice.

 

When a Higher-Up is telling you something is wrong and should not be practised any longer, you should probably stop whatever it is you're doing. If you believe that it's right, then take it up with another Higher-Up (Co-Leader or Division Leader or other Division Managers) and solve it. The worst thing you could possibly do is continue doing it (when you were warned that a demotion may occur should you continue your actions) just because you believe it's fine. You were completely aware of what would happen should you continued, and you continued doing so. Just to point out, this whole ordeal was not due to your Fr/Lr, so do not use that as one of the reasons to fight back.

 

It's not so much your actions that have led to these consequences so much as it is your attitude as well. We get it, you're an old member and you know the rules. But that doesn't mean you can use your "old-member" card as leverage to prove that you're right. Things change, rules change, management changes. With those changes, it is expected that guidelines are altered and edited. You and I both know that things have changed pretty drastically, and I'm sure others do as well. However; you should not disobey direct warnings as told by Higher-Ups without expecting some form of consequence or punishment.

 

You are an active member of the community, far more active then many others. You should be able to earn your rank back. It's not the end of the world.

 

@@DarkWolf6052 You are a Division Manager. The last thing I want to see is Players/Members telling me that you are conspiring to get a Staff Member demoted because you have a problem with them. Do not abuse your rank, you are to be unbiased at all times, as with any other Staff Member.

 

TL;DR - You loopholed and disobeyed Higher-Ups when warned that a demotion may occur should it continue happening. You are a Staff Member. A player who disobeys a Mod/Admin doesn't know better and therefore only gets CT banned or Server banned. You do not have that luxury, you have a status to uphold and disobeying Higher-Ups is a serious offence. Earn your rank back, it shouldn't be difficult.

- Dat guy, Forest

[xGShadowSpy 108]

@@Forest If its not the FrLr thing I was accused of loop holing for, then when did I loophole, and like I said I'm down for earning it back if this is denied anyway, was gonna do that originally, but its hard when you have 1 DM who is bias against you and many others

The only part I ignored you guys was doing the race on tile after you guys said no, the warday on tiny medic I was never warned not to do before doing so, and after I did it that one time, you guys pulled me on TS and told me not to.

The station part I didn't put them infront of armory the 2nd time, I sent them into ST and the new spray was comparably farther away than previous, and during that 1st round I wasn't told it was not allowed until after it started.

Also you just warned darkwolf for being biased, he messed up on my report abuse, strike 1, messed up on chronos report abuse, strike 2, you had to warn him now, strike 3, I mean seriously I'm demoted for this minor shit but he's not demoted for being biased as a DM? How many more times does he need to be warned? I was demoted after being warned and continued doing so, the same happened to him twice, now 3 times, and he's not demoted? What he does is 10x worse and he's a higher rank. I would really hope you look at what he's done.

[John 0]

Alright. I will be 100% honest. I haven't read a fucking thing in here. I know exactly what it's about though. I know why Shadow was demoted. I understand the DM's reasoning.

 

Shadow, sometimes I don't like you and sometimes you're pretty fucking cool. However, you were an admin who knew his shit mostly. Honestly, you should have just listened to the DM's and not done the trust days and the Warday's in certain areas. It would have been better to make a forum post about it and ask for the permission and or discussion of such areas. I know you like to have fun but sometimes it gets hectic and people get uber butthurt when they get freeshot or freekilled.

 

I am not going to +1 or -1 this thread as it is the decision of the DM's as to the fate of your re-promotion.

 

I would just like to add that even though at times I didn't like Shadowspy he was still a good admin. Whatever decision the DM's make I would agree with. Just know that as stated, he was a good admin.

[SonicRainbow 1]

So let me get this straight, You say the end of race on that one map is invalid because the other entrance isn't always open?

Wouldn't that go for the same at the bottom of Dam on Canyon-Dam since The Cts would have to push the button for the elevator like they would for the Race Door? haha, you guise...

[DarkWolf6052 0]

@@Forest If its not the FrLr thing I was accused of loop holing for, then when did I loophole, and like I said I'm down for earning it back if this is denied anyway, was gonna do that originally, but its hard when you have 1 DM who is bias against you and many others

The only part I ignored you guys was doing the race on tile after you guys said no, the warday on tiny medic I was never warned not to do before doing so, and after I did it that one time, you guys pulled me on TS and told me not to.

The station part I didn't put them infront of armory the 2nd time, I sent them into ST and the new spray was comparably farther away than previous, and during that 1st round I wasn't told it was not allowed until after it started.

Also you just warned darkwolf for being biased, he messed up on my report abuse, strike 1, messed up on chronos report abuse, strike 2, you had to warn him now, strike 3, I mean seriously I'm demoted for this minor shit but he's not demoted for being biased as a DM? How many more times does he need to be warned? I was demoted after being warned and continued doing so, the same happened to him twice, now 3 times, and he's not demoted? What he does is 10x worse and he's a higher rank. I would really hope you look at what he's done.

 

I am not biased against you. Just like John said, there are times I don't like you, and there are times I do. But I don't keep any enemy or friend relationship against you. You break rules and you will be punished. Being a staff member, you're expected to do a bit higher than both moderators and non-administrator players.

But anyway, the promotions and demotions I discussed with the other DMs every time. We explain what the problem is. So here's something I would like to know:

If it is up to all the DMs to demote you, why is this thread only about me? Gkoo had agreed you be demoted. Nothing against Gkoo, but why is there no abuse thread on him or thread complaining he had part in demoting you?

[DarkWolf6052 0]

not the regulars that could be freekilling

 

regulars that could be freekilling

 

could be freekilling

 

Could be freekilling. Saying they could be freekilling is like saying target everyone, cause everyone could freekill.

[Chrono 372]

Gkoo doesn't join servers to specifically gather negative things on people.

 

Gkoo doesn't question every action done by someone higher than them, when it doesn't even involve them, trying to find a wrong to report it. (trying to get them demoted) [can't touch dis]

 

Gkoo doesn't sit in teamspeak with "friends" talking about wanting to demote others for not thinking the same way as him.

 

 

just saiyan

 

inb4 "flame war"

These are the reasons i see that this is not a complaint about Gkoo. and he asked why it wasn't about Gkoo.

[DarkWolf6052 0]

Gkoo doesn't join servers to specifically gather negative things on people.

 

Gkoo doesn't question every action done by someone higher than them, when it doesn't even involve them, trying to find a wrong to report it. (trying to get them demoted) [can't touch dis]

 

Gkoo doesn't sit in teamspeak with "friends" talking about wanting to demote others for not thinking the same way as him.

 

 

just saiyan

 

inb4 "flame war"

These are the reasons i see that this is not a complaint about Gkoo. and he asked why it wasn't about Gkoo.

I don't join the server just to get shit on people. People in Teamspeak telling me that someone is breaking rules, I get on and check. The past few times with Shadowspy, it was moderators telling me that Shadowspy is ignoring them saying he isn't allowed to do what he's doing, I come on and check, and record a demo while doing so for future reference.

Nothing against Gkoo, like I said, but his attitude was poor as a Division Manager until just recently. He's improved, but he wasn't doing much as a DM, and Forest and I did point that out to him.

Gkoo doesn't come on Teamspeak that often anyway, if you haven't noticed. I'm on whenever my computer is on. Just because I sit in my room with friends and other people doesn't mean I'm talking about wanting to demote people.