Let's Fix Some Things

[Hidingmaster 19]

Alright so this was something brought up a handful of times already, with not a lot being done about it.

 

Welcome to the wacky world of discussion of... Leadership. Follow me on a journey through time and space, where we will first stop off at the solution, and then follow it up with the reasons that I deem a change necessary.

 

Solution

The current setup of xG leadership is as follows:

 

Community Leaders: Silence, Nomulous, Hidingmaster (me), Dr. Lee, Diabeetus

Division Leaders: Tf2, CS:GO, Minecraft...

Division Managers: You know.

Administrators: You know.

Moderators: Yeah, you know.

Members: Love you plebs.

 

It works, for the most part, but there are some very easy changes that can really help make the community a lot more easier to.. lets say.. navigate. Essentially go back to what we had before:

 

Leader: Mr. Rhodosilencdendron

Co Leaders: 2 trusted members of xG

DL

DM

Administrator

Mods

Members

The nomulous, who is like a leader, but more for the technical side of things.

 

 

What does this accomplish/help improve on?

 

Well, I want you first to question (those who aren't CLs) who you would turn to when you had a question that required an authoritative figure to answer. Right now I bet a lot of you would turn to a variety of people, from DL's to a CL (but not all im sure), to even a DM. There is not one person people can turn to to get an answer that is definitive, its a lot of "I think this is the right answer".

 

With having 2 trusted Co-leaders, it becomes much clearer who people can ask for answers that need a solid and definitive answer. DLs and DMs alike would be able to turn to one person to get an answer, not an entire committee. Co Leaders would be of equal power, almost acting independently. If CoLeader gives an answer to a question, than the community can trust that is what will be followed. I know people will think that gives them too much power, but remember a few things. It worked very well in the past, the second Coleader can be brought into the discussion and have a joint decision, and this is not for the MOST important topics, but those that can/need to be solved in a timely manner. Silence of course will retain complete veto and his word is final in 99% of the cases.

 

 

So why?

 

1) People need someone they can turn to that they can trust, that will answer quickly, and that they know are giving an answer that will not inflict punishment against the person asking.

 

2) The current setup leads to a lot of issues going unresolved, or at least going unresolved for a unacceptable amount of time.

 

3) Having 4 CLs leads to way too much confusion. People are getting unbanned who shouldnt, bans changed when they shouldn't be.

 

4) There is absolutely no discussion between community leaders. When first founded by Forest, community leaders were meant to work together. As a group we came up with rules to help govern how decisions would be made. Every CL would be included, a 3/5ths vote required for the most important issues, and promo demo would be approved by all CLs before being published. This is where the issue lies. Observe the following:

 

 

April 26th:

 

July 23rd:

 

 

 

July 30th:

 

 

August 9th (This monday):

 

 

 

 

 

The first three were located in threads that both Dr. Lee and Diabeetus viewed, the last picture is of a conversation sent to both of them with no response as of yet.

 

 

Hopefully y'all now understand why it takes so long for answers to come from Community Leaders, why there are conflicting responses, and why things never get wrapped up. I'm not here to berate anyone, as I have been negligent in answers occasionally, but when you have a person in leadership who gets ignored by the others you can't expect a system to work efficiently; thus I propose a change to a smaller group where the Co-Leaders have more power to help solve issues.

 

[uSERGROUP=23]@Community Leader[/uSERGROUP] [uSERGROUP=5]@Division Leader[/uSERGROUP] [uSERGROUP=29]@Division Manager[/uSERGROUP]

[Dethman 191]

I think community leaders should stay to be perfectly honest but the system needs a complete refresh. Seems to me currently they have the same powers as DLs and DMs on forums and teamspeak. They need clear guidlines on how to do there job and what they are required to do. That bold part is because it seems CL's do not know there specific role, they are basically running around with there heads chopped off. I suggested a system just like the us government but no one really answered but i will put it in here just so people know what i was thinking.

 

For starters my idea was have the leader (silence obviously) makes 90% of clan decisions and all decisions made by him are final unless objected by co-leaders and/or majority of community and division leader.

 

Co-Leader (2 of them) : Makes most of the general rules for the clan that must be agreed upon by both of them. They represent silence when he is not present and make the final decision (if silence does not respond) but that decision must have been agreed upon by both co-leaders.

 

Community Leader (5 of them) : Makes decisions under member protest whether the reported user deserves a kick from the clan or not. All of there decisions must have majority vote which is 3/5. They should be given teamspeak powers that they can only have (along with leaders) like ability to delete, edit, create, and give positions. This is so we can have multiple people we can ask in case teamspeak channel conflicts arise and can be resolved by more then 2 people. The community leaders can claim division specific rules and community rules either Unneeded, too harsh, conflicting, etc. They are an appeals court and if someone feels there ban was unjustified after the dms and dls of the respective division already made a decision. They can go to cls for a second look and even rule out a rule. This way CL's have a clear role and keep the community clean. How about also making use of the steam group and have final say in promo demos before they post it.

 

All three of these should require that they are active in at least the forum active communities and maybe nuclear dawn and g-mod. If they dont play with the community and understand the concerns of all.

 

DLs and below can stay the same.

 

We need like a wipe of the community leadership to be honest, the only ones i see being unbiased about everything are silence, nom, and hiding.

[Moosty 148]

+1

[Hidingmaster 19]

I think community leaders should stay to be perfectly honest but the system needs a complete refresh. Seems to me currently they have the same powers as DLs and DMs on forums and teamspeak. They need clear guidlines on how to do there job and what they are required to do. That bold part is because it seems CL's do not know there specific role, they are basically running around with there heads chopped off. I suggested a system just like the us government but no one really answered but i will put it in here just so people know what i was thinking.

 

For starters my idea was have the leader (silence obviously) makes 90% of clan decisions and all decisions made by him are final unless objected by co-leaders and/or majority of community and division leader.

 

Co-Leader (2 of them) : Makes most of the general rules for the clan that must be agreed upon by both of them. They represent silence when he is not present and make the final decision (if silence does not respond) but that decision must have been agreed upon by both co-leaders.

 

Community Leader (5 of them) : Makes decisions under member protest whether the reported user deserves a kick from the clan or not. All of there decisions must have majority vote which is 3/5. They should be given teamspeak powers that they can only have (along with leaders) like ability to delete, edit, create, and give positions. This is so we can have multiple people we can ask in case teamspeak channel conflicts arise and can be resolved by more then 2 people. The community leaders can claim division specific rules and community rules either Unneeded, too harsh, conflicting, etc. They are an appeals court and if someone feels there ban was unjustified after the dms and dls of the respective division already made a decision. They can go to cls for a second look and even rule out a rule. This way CL's have a clear role and keep the community clean. How about also making use of the steam group and have final say in promo demos before they post it.

 

All three of these should require that they are active in at least the forum active communities and maybe nuclear dawn and g-mod. If they dont play with the community and understand the concerns of all.

 

DLs and below can stay the same.

 

We need like a wipe of the community leadership to be honest, the only ones i see being unbiased about everything are silence, nom, and hiding.

 

My concern is that you essentially are making community leaders just the leaders of the DLs. People need to put trust in DLs to make decisions that are relevant to their division with nobody else stepping over them. 2 Co leaders would have no problem doing promo demo + taking care of clan concerns. If DLs are allowed to... lead their division... there really isn't much more to do other than have someone to help make decisions regarding tough situations and promo demo.

[xGShadowSpy 108]

+1, but it should be 3 CoLeaders, rather than 2, that way there can be a tie breaker. And, if there is ever a case where one co leader is "acting up" the other two can vote him off, rather than it being one others choice(or silences, but I don't even think he's active anymore). Another thing, when xG had co leaders, they were given powers on all servers higher than that of DLs. They should have no server powers, this way they can focus on the community, not administrating a server. But I do think they should have teamspeak powers above everyone else.Co Leaders shouldn't be able to decide who gets promoted or demoted, but should look over the list, to make sure there are no bias or unfair changes in rank.

Co Leaders also shouldn't be forced to be active in all divisions(but it should be highly encouraged, especially for community nights, division re-openings/startups, etc.). If you take a Co Leader who hates tf2 and tell him he has to be active on it, he won't take it seriously anyway. When we had co leaders, they never had to be active on the servers, and it worked fine. Server related issues should be solved by the DLs and DMs.

CoLeaders SHOULD be somewhat active on teamspeak though, so that they can be contacted easier

 

 

xG was functioning way better when we had Co Leaders(It worked for years). I honestly think Community Leaders were made to make things look more democratic(which in the end didn't work anyway since in 99% of the threads I see it's only the CLs that have the final say in anything, rather than the community).

 

Also, for CoLeader I nominate @Forest (I'm being serious), @Hidingmaster , and maybe @Nomulous (not sure of his forum/TS activity, but he's all I could think of as a third CoLeader).

(EDIT: Maybe even @Chrono but I thought I saw a post somewhere saying he was inactive)

Of course, I'm sure it would be silences decision, but they just seem to be the best fit.

[Dethman 191]

My concern is that you essentially are making community leaders just the leaders of the DLs. People need to put trust in DLs to make decisions that are relevant to their division with nobody else stepping over them. 2 Co leaders would have no problem doing promo demo + taking care of clan concerns. If DLs are allowed to... lead their division... there really isn't much more to do other than have someone to help make decisions regarding tough situations and promo demo.

that might be true somewhat but what if there is a rule that was overkill like the death threat one. Someone could appeal to CL's and the rule could be looked at. And also this could be the preventer of favortising decisions that DL's make like giving "joe" a day ban when "bob" got a week ban for the same thing and same number of bans and such. DL's should be trusted but there also needs to be a leveler of somesort.

[Insane 2]

Tbh CL and DL never did anything anyways :^)

 

 

 

Jk

 

 

 

But on a serious note, i like the idea of going back to the original way have a definite leader that has the final say. The setup we have now is a little bit inefficient in solving problems.

 

But then again I never had any problems, and I prob don't have much say in any of this. But who cares.

[diabeetus 20]

To be honest, I think we should just do a hard reset on ranks and go back to how it was before the Community Leader rank was introduced. If I could choose anyone to take up the post, it would either be Chrono, Forest or Aegean. Unfortunately that probably won't happen as Chrono has been too inactive recently, Forest probably wouldn't accept the offer (polite canadian bastard), and Aegean isn't even in the clan and I doubt whether or not Silence would even let him anywhere near the position. Personally, I would say just stick to the old system and have one Co-Leader. Having multiple Co-Leaders (especially if you're going to prop them up as "representatives" from a specific division) will only serve to divide the clan even further across divisional lines. Whoever takes up the position has to abandon their former division (if we're going with the original level of powers that the Co-Leader had, this person still would have powers) and realize that they're serving a broader purpose. If you want someone with a high level of forum and server powers but also serves the interests of a specific division, you've essentially just described the rank of Division Leader. If the clan decides to have what essentially boils down to a Division Leader with slightly more powers and several added responsibilities, then so be it. Keep in mind that doing so will cause rifts in the future as divisions change in size.

 

At the bare minimum, the change eliminating the leader rank should be reverted. Since that change was made there have been serious issues with chain of command and has resulted in a fair amount of confusion on the responsibilities of the Community Leader.

[Vector 138]

You expect me to read all that shit?

[Rejects 81]

+1

[Moosty 148]

#KbraszzzforCo

#onlyifhewantsto

[Pepper 35]

While I agree that a change needs to occur, who would we put in that position? The person in the coleader position needs to be someone who is highly respected by the community and can hold an authoritive power. Right now the only people I can think of for that postition have already held it. I would like to hear people's suggestions as to who could hold this position.

[Forest 309]

They should have no server powers, this way they can focus on the community, not administrating a server. But I do think they should have teamspeak powers above everyone else.Co Leaders shouldn't be able to decide who gets promoted or demoted, but should look over the list, to make sure there are no bias or unfair changes in rank.

Co Leaders also shouldn't be forced to be active in all divisions(but it should be highly encouraged, especially for community nights, division re-openings/startups, etc.).

Server related issues should be solved by the DLs and DMs.

Community Leaders in a nut shell.

 

My suggestion would be to set this in stone somewhere, that way Members will know who to consult for whatever problem(s) they are facing. I'll admit to dropping the ball on that during the initial setup of the Community Leader rank since I only gave a very vague and brief description of their duties.

 

It was the intention of Serb and I to create a committee based on the duties of Co-Leaders, but with a narrowed specific focus on community. This is why they were stripped of their powers ingame.

 

If the problem here is one of trust, then the easiest alternative would involve the community itself to elect Members to the aforementioned position of power. Though the trouble here is that it would require an actual effort; people electing someone and giving valid reasoning to back them up. Something of which seems to dwindle more and more each day (look at Member Submissions. That's right, I'm bringing this up again). Once that has happened, it'll be the responsibility of someone (cough Silence. Lets face it, the guy owns XenoGamers. Of course he ought to be the one to pick.) to hand pick those who has been deemed.. Worthy, for a lack of better words.

 

I'd love to bring up more on the subject by giving my very own TL;DR post, but I'm currently at work so this will have to do. I may post again with more detail later in the day.

[xGShadowSpy 108]

Community Leaders in a nut shell.

 

My suggestion would be to set this in stone somewhere, that way Members will know who to consult for whatever problem(s) they are facing. I'll admit to dropping the ball on that during the initial setup of the Community Leader rank since I only gave a very vague and brief description of their duties.

 

It was the intention of Serb and I to create a committee based on the duties of Co-Leaders, but with a narrowed specific focus on community. This is why they were stripped of their powers ingame.

 

If the problem here is one of trust, then the easiest alternative would involve the community itself to elect Members to the aforementioned position of power. Though the trouble here is that it would require an actual effort; people electing someone and giving valid reasoning to back them up. Something of which seems to dwindle more and more each day (look at Member Submissions. That's right, I'm bringing this up again). Once that has happened, it'll be the responsibility of someone (cough Silence. Lets face it, the guy owns XenoGamers. Of course he ought to be the one to pick.) to hand pick those who has been deemed.. Worthy, for a lack of better words.

 

I'd love to bring up more on the subject by giving my very own TL;DR post, but I'm currently at work so this will have to do. I may post again with more detail later in the day.

When I said server related issues I meant ban protests and member protests too. Someone from tf2 can get in trouble for something related to tf2, yet somehow it always ends up with the community leaders and not the DLs or DMs. They should only be involved in cases where it effects the whole clan, or a case where the DLs and DMs can not come to a conclusion. And yes, a lot of things I said are things the CLs should be doing, but most of them don't seem like they're being done.

[Dethman 191]

OK, the system is not what is inefficient, it is the people in power. Most clearly did not know there role that much and they take forever to respond to stuff or look into stuff. The system just needs to be reworked and made clearer and have 5 people who are unbiased, represent the active divisions, and is respected by the members. Basically wipe the cls as they are with Silence going back to leader, nom goes back to co. Maybe need another co-leader or 2. Then have 5 CLs handpicked by silence to carry out the duties which are clearly given to them. Give them the respective powers needed to moderate teamspeak and forums fully. Hiding is really my only pick for the second or third co-leader or if no co-leaders then to stay CL.

 

Also the fact that CLs claim valid evidence cherry picking because I said one of there friends was in the wrong is complete bs. Another reason to wipe cls.

 

Another thing is that cl number should be 5. 3 tf2 and 2 cs since tf2 holds majority of active servers and cs was just revived