Remove Cyberpunk 2_a for Nudity/not being PG-13

[TBOHB 74]

Imma stay neutral on this. It is meant to be seen as art, but it does break rules of being PG - 13. Im not too sure about. I saw some people saying just replace the brush. That shouldn't be too hard to do.

[dr.derpy 18]

but it does break rules of being PG - 13

so is it pg-13 or not?

Edited July 24, 2017 by Guest (see edit history)

[Moosty 148]

Your description is once again, blowing it way out of proportion, kinda like this entire thread. The image you used has all the parts you just described in "vivid (concerning) detail" covered up with sprays. It's nowhere near as bad as you are saying it is, it's once again, the roughest sketch it can possibly be while still considered art.

 

That's because maps with actual pornography are removed, exceptions can be made for maps where it's almost unnoticed, such as Hotel Hell.

I would have loved to get an uncensored shot but donators noclipped to cover too quickly, and removing sprays so I can UNCOVER nudity seemed shady, But it isn't a "just a rough sketch" when you have defined flaps and areolas. It's maybe "as close to a rough sketch to be considered unfinished" but except for a missing arm it's a complete image, and arms aren't what's under discussion here. but next time I'm on the map I'll be sure to post a full minge shot and uncover censoring sprays if need be, as long as I have your permission, I want all the info possible in this thread, so people can make an informed decision.

 

 

 

Edit: and not a single person can possibly genuinely believe this huge ass billboard of nudity "goes unnoticed" like a tiny model of a magazine

Edited July 24, 2017 by Moosty (see edit history)

[TBOHB 74]

so is it pg-13 or not?

No im saying it goes against pg-13 but the map maker meant for it to be art and there really isn't a problem with art. But when I can I try to enforce rules. It's the least I can do, especially now.

[dr.derpy 18]

No im saying it goes against pg-13

ok it was just worded poorly

[Vexx 112]

https://puu.sh/wRr8x/1bc5ffed8c.jpg

I'm telling you, the image is not anywhere close to how bad you're describing it is. There are no "flaps" nor is there anything sexual about the image. The pose the woman is taking is a common pose used in art like this. PG - 13 is entirely subjective, as the idea of PG - 13 as drastically changed over time.

 

Here is an excerpt I found someone had written when comparing Art to Pornography:

"...while both art and pornography utilize nude figures, the purpose/motives for portraying the naked body are definitively distinct. Pornography utilizes nude figures for the pure purpose of stimulating the baser instincts of individuals; instincts that will not be satisfied by that alone. Art, on the other hand, utilizes nude figures for the purpose of highlighting the beauty of man. While pornography engenders lust, art engenders admiration for the glory and beauty of the human body, and thus the glory of its Maker."

You can find the full article here: Art vs. Pornography: What’s the Difference?

 

Honestly, if you find this image at all erotic, I would seriously be concerned for you if you walked through an art gallery.

 

Edit: Also, the map is on GameBanana: CYBERPUNK 2 (Team Fortress 2 > Maps > Death Match) - GAMEBANANA

GameBanana does not allow any pornographic images in the maps on their website.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Guest (see edit history)

[Moosty 148]

https://puu.sh/wRr8x/1bc5ffed8c.jpg

I'm telling you, the image is not anywhere close to how bad you're describing it is. There are no "flaps" nor is there anything sexual about the images. The pose the woman is taking is a common pose used in art like this. PG - 13 is entirely subjective, as the idea of PG - 13 as drastically changed over time.

 

Here is an excerpt I found someone had written when comparing Art to Pornography:

"...while both art and pornography utilize nude figures, the purpose/motives for portraying the naked body are definitively distinct. Pornography utilizes nude figures for the pure purpose of stimulating the baser instincts of individuals; instincts that will not be satisfied by that alone. Art, on the other hand, utilizes nude figures for the purpose of highlighting the beauty of man. While pornography engenders lust, art engenders admiration for the glory and beauty of the human body, and thus the glory of its Maker."

You can find the full article here: Art vs. Pornography: What’s the Difference?

 

Honestly, if you find this image at all erotic, I would seriously be concerned for you if you walked through an art gallery.

I'm not saying it's erotic porn that I want to jack my ding dong too I'm saying it blatantly breaks our rules and we should either edit the rules or edit the map. you're correct about the difference between art and pornography, now throw what you just posted in our rules and my complaints are over. it's the lack of transparency and blatant ignoring of our own rules I have a problem with, not the semantics of what is and isn't pornography. or whether pornography is inherently sexual. put in the rule "no nudity unless DM+ find it has artistic value" and it's problem solved, I just don't see why people are so big on Keeping the map unchanged AND ignoring the fact that it breaks our rules. I'm not attacking anyone here just pointing out that we're contradicting ourself

Edited July 24, 2017 by Guest (see edit history)

[dr.derpy 18]

, why allow adult animated pron?

are you sure

[Moosty 148]

https://puu.sh/wRr8x/1bc5ffed8c.jpg

I'm telling you, the image is not anywhere close to how bad you're describing it is. There are no "flaps" nor is there anything sexual about the image. The pose the woman is taking is a common pose used in art like this. PG - 13 is entirely subjective, as the idea of PG - 13 as drastically changed over time.

 

Here is an excerpt I found someone had written when comparing Art to Pornography:

"...while both art and pornography utilize nude figures, the purpose/motives for portraying the naked body are definitively distinct. Pornography utilizes nude figures for the pure purpose of stimulating the baser instincts of individuals; instincts that will not be satisfied by that alone. Art, on the other hand, utilizes nude figures for the purpose of highlighting the beauty of man. While pornography engenders lust, art engenders admiration for the glory and beauty of the human body, and thus the glory of its Maker."

You can find the full article here: Art vs. Pornography: What’s the Difference?

 

Honestly, if you find this image at all erotic, I would seriously be concerned for you if you walked through an art gallery.

 

Edit: Also, the map is on GameBanana: CYBERPUNK 2 (Team Fortress 2 > Maps > Death Match) - GAMEBANANA

GameBanana does not allow any pornographic images in the maps on their website.

and if you're saying artistic nudity is pg and not pg-13, I'll argue that until the cows come home, because I feel that's incorrect

 

Edit: PG - 13 not R, it's clearly beyond Disney/pixar

Edited July 24, 2017 by Moosty (see edit history)

[Vexx 112]

I'm not saying it's erotic porn that I want to jack my ding dong too I'm saying it blatantly breaks our rules and we should either edit the rules or edit the map. you're correct about the difference between art and pornography, now throw what you just posted in our rules and my complaints are over. it's the lack of transparency and blatant ignoring of our own rules I have a problem with, not the semantics of what is and isn't pornography. or whether pornography is inherently sexual. put in the rule "no nudity unless DM+ find it has artistic value" and it's problem solved, I just don't see why people are so big on Keeping the map unchanged AND ignoring the fact that it breaks our rules. I'm not attacking anyone here just pointing out that we're contradicting ourself

Most things can be allowed if all the higher ups agree, which in this case we did. When the map was added, I was still an admin and Bello had said the map was fine because it was artistic nudity. I still stand behind the map being completely fine how it is, there is nothing wrong with having that image on the map. We don't need to rewrite rules to make decisions like this, if anyone asks it can be easily explained. It's not ignoring our rules when our rules only concern sprays, player decals, and steam profile pictures. Maps have nothing to do with those rules and are up to the discretion of higher ups as to whether they are fine or not.

[Krampus 42]

I literally don't care bout the nudity smh I just want to remove all cyberpunk maps

[LAN_Megalodon 195]

I'm with Krampus, I'd love to remove it as long as we toss the other in the bin as well, however, that's not the vote, and atm, this cyberpunk is marginally better than the old one, and is currently my only reprise from the worse one in question.

 

Just to weigh the differences...

 

There's a line between pornography and art. Would we kick someone with the statue of David as their spray? I doubt it, as pornography is intended to elicit erotic rather than aesthetic feeling. I don't think any small child is beating their meat to the woman in that painting.

 

The rule is "no nudity" though, and I suppose that's in part due to dealing with trolls who would count their porn as "art" when approached about it, and "no nudity" gives a pretty airtight case for booting them, whereas if the rule was merely "no porn" or whatever, there could be legitimate argument as to when the line is crossed between artistic value and porn, as believe it or not, there's plenty of actual critically acclaimed art designed to elicit erotic feeling from the viewer.

 

Hell I remember some guy who raised hell on Poke Trade because the admin/mod wanted him to change his spray, as it contained exposed breasts, and he complained about how "sexist" the rules were, that, "a picture of a man could have an exposed chest but a woman couldn't" or whatever. Obviously he was just there to be a l33t mast3r troll and raise as much hell as he could for 15 minutes or so. We probably don't want to open up the door to more of his ilk.

 

My personal opinion is that this is a rated-M game. 17 and up or whatever, and I think steam at least pretends to value the ESRB system, meaning you shouldn't even be able to download the game if you aren't one, at least seventeen, or two, lying about your age. By this game's rating, it should be assumed that everyone playing it could handle anything found in your average rated-R movie. You don't see gratuitous amounts of explicit sex or pornography in an R movie, but you might see some nudity or something, and generally not excessive amounts of such. I get the concerns of nudity and children and whatnot, but I think complaints about non-erotic depictions of reality (yes, women do have boobs under their clothes, this is a part of reality) are just a little bit too puritanical for a server based around a game where people kill each other in viscous ways while screaming curse words, and every weird fetish under the sun is fair game (vore, eyeball licking, furries, scalies, home-made descriptive steamy fanfiction entries about burping into Val's butthole, etc.) so long the depiction in question doesn't contain any nudity.

 

Anyway, I'm going to wrap this up because it's getting kind of ranty, in short, I don't really care. I don't particularly like the map, and the only reason I'd want to keep it around is because it sometimes saves me from the hallway. On one hand removing the map in question keeps the rules consistent, on the other it provides legitimacy for a rule I don't really like or think has a place in an M-Rated game. I'm going to -1 as it has, (and has had,) no immediate impact on the way player sprays are handled, or any increase in sprays that break our rules, and if it turns out to be a major problem we can always vote again.

[Thunder 79]

Couldn't someone just go in hammer and fix this problem instantly? We don't need to remove the map just for this one thing because we have the tools to change it. Unless people are -1ing for the art to stay I see no reason for this change.

 

Please correct me if im wrong :\

[Moosty 148]

Couldn't someone just go in hammer and fix this problem instantly? We don't need to remove the map just for this one thing because we have the tools to change it. Unless people are -1ing for the art to stay I see no reason for this change.

 

Please correct me if im wrong :\

No that's a perfectly valid outcome. My issue is with the rule contradiction, not the map itself.

[Rhododendron 994]

Couldn't someone just go in hammer and fix this problem instantly? We don't need to remove the map just for this one thing because we have the tools to change it. Unless people are -1ing for the art to stay I see no reason for this change.

 

Please correct me if im wrong :\

Yeah I would prefer this so we don't have to remove the map completely. I could do it if nobody else wants to.