mrnutty12

He's comparing in similarity. Similar =/= same.
 

 
Putting double emphasis on this statement.

Besides my side thoughts at the end and some simple comparisons for map references, I actually don't mention TF2 all that much...
Things like lack of community involvement, broken mechanics in a genre based on player skill as opposed to much more strategy based thing have very little to do with TF2. Not that strategy is bad, but they shouldn't sacrifice skill for strats.
 

First off, RJing was in initial trailers for TF2, and it was in all the predecessor games... Also, congrats you can do basic jumps, now get on to that actual complicated stuff like
. Also, it is an opinion for a reason, I just happen to prefer skill based movement. If you didn't see it, there is a big bolded bit of text that says they are my opinions.
 

I make some comparisons on maps and some of the characters, but they also added a lot of more heros than just our 9 familiar in TF2. Naturally with how they changed game balance with additional characters, ults, differently emphasized weapons. They can have similar characters and still play radically differently, (see Battlefield and CoD). Similar in base concepts but branch out much differently from there. Besides some personal ideas on similarities between isolated balance choices, where do I go out and say it is too similar to TF2? If anything, that would be a plus in my book.
 

Ok, I just said the design principles behind the characters felt similar to others that I am familiar with, just my personal thoughts on similar characters between class based, objective driven, cartoony first person shooters (similar at a very basic level???).
 
also, I believe I said something along the lines of that bolded bit...

 
 
For the record, Fallacy of Division:
It is committed by inferences from the fact that a whole has a property to the conclusion that a part of the whole also has that property.
Meaning that assuming that something true of a thing must also be true of all its parts is a false assumption. So while some of my issues with the game may be related to certain other games, that does not mean that all of them are complaining about the lack of certain features present in other titles. Many of them are general complaints for the general benefit of the game. Like community content, or a server browser, or a higher tickrate, or tools to deal with less than pleasant community members, etc.
 
If you are going to disagree, why don't you explain why having none of things like those would make the game better instead of just dismissing me.

Overwatch is a damn good game, And it isn't tf2. Mei isn't the pyro, zarya isn't the heavy, mercy...alright mercy is 100% the medic, only can fly and revive dead players, so it would be better, but mercy can't overheal.
 
It's mechanically so different from tf2, you can tell the devs looked at tf2 as a jumping off point but they really aren't similar games. They wont threaten eachother.

Well, overall Overwatch could be really good, but I have a few gripes with it. (see below)
 
WARNING: OPINIONS AHEAD, DON'T GET ALL TRIGGERED OVER IT
 
1) Maps, They are chokey as hell and can be very easy to lock down with certain heros/combos that make the game incredibly slow and boring to play while you try to break the stalemate. Most of the KOTH maps are manageable however, though they have their moments of chokepoint hold contest. (example of maps that people don't like because they are full of chokepoints; Dustbowl, Goldrush, Hoodoo, Hydro)
Also, they have taken much from TF2 in terms of balance (eg. Mercy-Medic similarities) so why can't the learn map design as well?
 
2) Team Colors, The lack of team colors can be a bit hard to get used too, especially with all of the visual clutter that goes on particularly in team fights where the chaos and flashy effects can make it difficult to quickly assess who is on what team. Other games can get away with this more because they don't have the same sort of chaos on the player's screen. (Seen in games like, Guns of Icarus, Chivalry Medieval Warfare, Star Wars battlefront [any of them], Unreal Tournament, Fistful of Frags [to an extent], and many more)
 
3) Visuals, Overall this game, while pretty, does suffer from a large amount of eye-grabbing, flashy, and visually obstructive effects (though it has been lessened since the earlier stages) that can make it hard to identify a lot of things. (a couple of games that clutter your screen for no good reason; CoD, Battlefield, or Kiling Floor 2 at times [Think about those chaotic fights with lots of body parts exploding...])
 
4) Character silhouettes, Basically, a distinct outline each class/hero has that makes them easy to identify. IMO the biggest offenders here are McCree, Soldier 76, and Reaper as they all have similar body types, and the skins can help blur those lines some as well. Some others are easier to tell like Roadhog or Zenyatta (spelling :confused:) so it is more of a cse by case business, but can be vital info in some cases.
(Games with Good Character Silhouettes; Chivalry medieval warfare, star wars battlefront I&II, Battleborn to an extent, Star Wars The Force Unleashed [repetative gameplay but they made sure you knew what you were fighting], both Killing Floors, Guns of Icarus [original,online,new co-op], and ace of spades to name a few)
 
5) Excessive stuns/slows/movement control, It may work in other types of games, but movement control is outright annoying in the FPS genre. Not to mention the classes that have the most prominent movement impairment have some serious hard hitting attacks/abilities. cough cough Mei/Roadhog/Junkrat/McCree Cough Cough
(most fps games don't have it)
 
6) legal Aimbots/wallhacks, I get that Ultimate abilities are supposed to fit with the theme of the character and all, but aimbots/wallhacks are both unfun/unfair to fight and generally annoying. Plus hackers are that much harder to find out.
(Call of Duty and DOOM are the only games I know of with full on wallhacks, even then it is for one player against one player)
 
7) No vote kick system, self explanatory, you are stuck with that hacker/afk/troll...
 
8) lack of community content, as a mapmaker I find this one kinda depressing, you won't find amazing community maps like many of the maps Valve has added.
(Note: for the future, I have not heard about any mapmaker software included in the release)
(Extra Note: Many games have mapmakers, DOOM and Ace of Spades have them built into the game menus. Others such as any source game, Chivalry MW, both original SW Battlefronts, both Killing Floors, Quake, any UT game, and many more allow custom creation of maps)
 
9) No community servers, from what I have gathered there won't be a server browser, forcing everyone to lay the game exactly how it was designed, so no casual competitive (competitive configs, but playing for fun. Think TF2Center type things) or fun type things unless Blizzard decides to make it an official gamemode.
(some examples include, UT, Quake, any source game (minus portal and maybe L4D), SWBF I&II, SW Republic Commando, KF 1&2, Chivalry MW, older CoDs, Minecraft, and ARK survival to name a few)
 
10) Customization, I hear people praise this game for it's customization options like sprays and skins when you have far more in depth systems available. Not that it is bad, but it could be better.
(Games like Loadout, DOOM, Minecraft, and KF have commendable customization to varying levels)
 
11) 20 tick rate, Should be a thread with infos on reddit, but I heard there was a tickrate of 20 on official OW servers. For reference Valve games run on 64 tick servers by default.
(Literally the only near mainstream game that have 20 tick servers is CoD, and they have lots of lag complaints...)
 
12) Hard counter all over, It isn't fun to be destroyed as a spy just because someone went pyro, odds are they are 10x worse than you, but they killed you just because they chose your hard counter as a class. Same applied in Overwatch, some characters just destroy others without much one could do about it. Soft counters is a much more enjoyable style where while one class may have an advantage in a fight (eg scout v demo) you could still outplay that soft counter because you were better than them at the game (demo lands pipebombs on the scout). (or chivalry, where the archers counter things like the MAA because they can one shot him easily, but get walked on by knights because of the shields. It works there because a properly skilled player can evade pretty much any counter, but it is certainly a counter system)
 
13) Pointless progression system, It really is just kind of an arbitrary number there to feed your hubris. One could achieve a high rank just by sheer amount of games played as opposed to skill. If there is a point to it, please point it out because I can't find one.
(given, it is like CS:GO in that you need a certain amount of levels to get into the competitive que. Not a huge fan, but at least it has a point)
 
14) $40 price tag minimum, Fairly self explanatory, not everyone has money and some people don't think this game is worth $40+ at the moment.
 
15) Lack of skill based movement, Besides something like Junkrat's conc mine there really isn't all that much skill based movement (eg. explosive jumps/bhops/damage surf/rampslides/ect.). Instead the movement is very 'press x button and get launched into the sky' or 'press y button and move to z player'. While this may not be extremely vital, it does detract a lot from vertical play and skill ceilings by limiting them to simple options or none at all.
(many games since DOOM [the original] have had skill based movement, seen in modern day source games and games like UT/Quake)
 
All of that said, There are a few things this game got right.
 
1) The maps are very pretty, it is a visually stunning game and is fairly well optimized.
 
2) It can be fun at times and better players will do better
 
3) they encourage good team composition
 
4) Accessible at any level of play
 
5) Has built in competitive from launch
 
6) Plenty of variety
 
7) NO RANDUMB CRITS <--- big one
 
8) Fix a lot of balance issues that certain games suffer from (TF2 and useless classes)
 
Extra thoughts... Not for any purpose but some observations made whilst playing.
 
They made the Pyro(Mei) even more infuriating to fight by strapping the Natascha and Sandman's lovechild to the flamethrower and made it really cold.
Demoknight (Reinhart) was made into a useful thing that actually meaningfully contributes to the team outside of fighting potatoes.
They made the demoman white... Also, rip stickies.
Soldier(pharah) now takes even less skill than before.
Mercy's pistol is actually worse at self defense than the syringe guns, at least assuming you don't have aimbot tier accuracy, but with some of these characters...
Zarya plays much like heavy, she has lots of hp, the ability to block damage and to block damage for allies (block vs heal, sandvich), a primary that is only effective in close range(minigun), and a useless melee attack(heavy melee in general.
If Blizzard ripped so much out of TF2, then why couldn't they make better maps (less reliant on gimmicks like choke points) or at the least, bring in people who know map design/balance?
 
By no means do I think it is bad, just flawed. Like certain other games I play...Cough TF2 Cough
Oh and before I forget, this game plays nothing like TF2. It's like comparing CoD to Battlefield, similar but very different at a base level.
 
My 2 cents for now, I probably missed some stuff, but meh.
 
EDIT: Grammar n' stuff

I dont know about TF2, but as much as people gave you shit(partially including myself) I still think you were a good staff member on CSS, because you didn't take shit from anybody, and you knew what you were doing.
Anyways good luck(even though you arent leaving), not being staff is alot less stressful i assume.

Slow it down, champ. You don't have to bump it that often.

Make xG great again! Vote for KSPlayer! 
+1 Pretty good about rules and such, and he is fairly active.
A:8
M:8

Well. I don't really mind dispensers, but I'm all for no sentries and teleporters. Sentry for obvious reasons, and teleporter for a few different reasons.
 
1. I've seen people build teles from spawn straight to the end of the surf map, now if you think about it, there is likely some sort of orb at the end of the map, which gives you buffs, anything from a moving dispenser to invincibility. Now that being said, I feel like teles make that extremely unfair considering they didn't do anything to even get there and then they are just getting a buff that they can walk into arena with and kill everyone in there.
 
2. What supreme said, if you REALLY want to teleport somewhere, use !cpsave and !cptele.
 
 
---
On the side of dispensers, like I said, I don't have a problem with them as long as people aren't blocking areas with them.

@Goblins, @Rejects and I overhauled the rules. We have

Updated the surf MOTD. Tf2 Surf Rules



Updated /rules on surf.



 
Should be clear now, eh?

Hooray for VAC I guess.
Reddit link if anybody cares: https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/4h1xfv/lmaobox_vac_detected_30th_april_2016/
 
Makes moderating easier I suppose.

Well GL on it, VSH should be easier than a JB map. Just don't get too spread out with projects.

honestly dont know how i am going to manage this and the jailbreak map
 
I am making a new Saxton Hale map!
It's called
 
VSH_CrossBridge
name might be suspectible to change

Progress will be in this thread soon!

Not quite, heavy and pyro each have severe weaknesses, such as awful mobility and lack of effective range. The demoman however, can output roughly the same damage as heavies (depending on how well the splash hits people) and he has decent range (sticky snipes and amazing mid range), traps, decent movement speed, sticky jumps, effectively 2 primaries (GL and SBL), and high burst damage making it difficult to avoid being killed by stickies or grenades. Also, splash damage hits everyone hard.
Don't get me wrong, it is easy to mass as pyro and heavy, but far easier as demoman.
 
THAT SAID, I would +1 full demoman unlocking on blue as they take the same risk as soldiers in terms of freekill. Just restrict things like traps on vital map areas (eg trapping the entrance to medic). So while demoman may not have the surgical precision of a sniper rifle, he can help greatly with mass rebellion and reduce the effectiveness of medic crusades (Lord knows those are fun for blue). Besides, JB usually has at least one staff member online if it is populated, and we have a call admin if people mass freekill without staff online.
 
If we are only unbanning melee unlocks and shields on demoman, then I will -1 it because the same thing from actual gameplay servers applies here, the demoknight is dead weight on their team since other classes do their job better. However, this outclassing is actually worse here because of the high (random) crit rate of melees in general and the fact that red is forced into using melee shouldn't be that far of a jump to the demoknight in question being horrifically murdered. Additionally the demoknight has to get into melee range (baiting) to actually hit stuff...
 
Just my 2 cents on the matter.

Will update later today:
 
Changing some of the button links.
Color tweaks

Part two of more progress
[spoiler=Progress] pool in game (water doesn't reflect no texture error)
 
deathrun in game (in progress)
 
secret easter egg event (finished it btw)

Finally more progress!
[spoiler=Progress] pool (not sure why it shows missing textures on water in spectate but is normal in rounds)
 
disco
 
new cell buttons (open/close)
 
deathrun in progress
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa8NREI_IPs
 
Obligatory. But in all seriousness, Fuk.

Great, so it seems like you guys wanna keep homing arrows. If so, can we at least do something about it?
I, personally, am getting sick of 10 fricken homing arrow sniper on one team which spread out 100 metres away from eachother.
As Hale, I literally HAVE TO kill the homing snipers first BUT in order to do that you HAVE to get past every other mercenary that wants to kill you.
=> So you basically HAVE to take damage to kill a single class.

So people literally have to select either Hitler or Heavydile to counter it? And what does that lead to? People spamming the same bosses. :derp:
But anyways, as long as we get a nerf (such as removing crits) or a class limit I am fine.
dis might be overexaggerated

I am really against taking off the crit bonus or removing the huntsman (I doubt that would happen anyway). Some people (hi my names barm i use the sniper bow xd) legitimately use the huntsman without homing, and I would personally hate to see anything nerfed about them. Class limits just ruin the fun for people who want to play sniper. In my opinion the best way to solve the issue is just to remove all homing perks what so ever. Valve made certain projectiles hard to hit for a reason and removing the skill needed for that also removes the fun with those weapons. The only reason people use homing arrows and such is because doing a lot of damage, even though it requires them minimal gameplay (sitting in a corner and pressing mouse1 every couple seconds), makes them feel like they are having "fun." Sure, some people will be mad if you remove it, probably most of the younger audience will be. But it is really ruining the fun for hale and destroys chances of someone who is not as good to win a round as hale.
 
 
Please. Make people play the game.

You must be at least 13 years old to become a member. Feel free to re-apply when you are 13!
~Closed

I mean, I'm all for 'second' chances, so uhhh...
+1 for unban

I put traps in DR and made it more difficult than the original,
and I finally figured out how fallgame works. That is one annoying setup, it just needs a stop button now.
 
Anywho, back to building the world.
make something in dr so the spot for the barrel trap is kind of noticeable instead of nothing being there and constantly tricking non-regulars.

Hey, update time. first, pics...
 
[spoiler=Pics or it didn't happen...]Yes, I know it is from basically the same angle, but the game actually kinda works now, so it's relevant.
 

 
 
I put traps in DR and made it more difficult than the original,
and I finally figured out how fallgame works. That is one annoying setup, it just needs a stop button now.
 
Anywho, back to building the world.

Hey, update time. first, pics...
 
[spoiler=Pics or it didn't happen...]Yes, I know it is from basically the same angle, but the game actually kinda works now, so it's relevant.
 

 
 
I put traps in DR and made it more difficult than the original,
and I finally figured out how fallgame works. That is one annoying setup, it just needs a stop button now.
 
Anywho, back to building the world.

More progress!
[spoiler=Progress] armoury
 
cells
medic