Sylux

Ban request rejected, no action will be taken on user.
 
Note: Zack will not be given a ban at this time, and instead will receive a direct warning for his behavior on the server and that it will result in an immediate ban should it occur again in the future.
 
~closed

Your ban protest has been rejected. However, you can still get unbanned if you follow the steps in this thread.
 
Note: The ban will not be removed, but due to the length being considered too excessive will be reduced to one week.
 
~closed

So Zack was being toxic, Sylux gave it right back to Zack and got hit with a month-long ban, while Zack just got a slap on the wrist because it was his "first offense."
 
 
What is xG coming to?

It should stay at a week. His last ban was a day and he clearly broke the rules. Plus it makes for a lot simpler in the long run because if staff see that he was unbanned (as well as new staff) then they might think this ban his invalid so they ban them for a week again.

First point still applies then. He's still been a known issue on the server for some time now and he eventually got banned for it and the last ban was a day.

+1 I think my reasoning is clear

+1 I think my reasoning is clear

As mentioned above, using a players' past history of bans on servers is a terrible way to dictate a future punishment's duration. The common player the late teen catergory going into adulthood :thinking: . If you think a 1 day mute is a punishment for instigatin and pissing off a whole server and many of the regulars you need to re-think your policies.
 
I have said my points, sometimes once or twice to make them clear I will no longer reply to messages of the same points after I have explained the other wing. Thanks for the replies bros

Haha yeah Lan's crazy right? Yeah no, what I said is pretty reasonable. I'm not saying that nobody likes Sylux, I'm just saying I don't think he's actively a member of any of the main cliques that seem to plague this clan. Furthermore he alluded to someone telling him stuff through steam messages rather than say cough cough Discord, so idk, that seems to allude to the fact he doesn't have a group of people to support him at the drop of a pin.

Well said. My thoughts, quick and compressed: Was the ban justified?
Not really. Where do I start? If I recall correctly, we do a day -> a week -> a month. Were these steps followed? I don't think so. All bans that I am seeing are from about about a year ago (let's not take the ones for calladmin abuse into consideration, as that's a whole different topic). So we have one ban from 10-30-15 for disrespect. There is also the one from early this year which seems to be due to disrespect and calladmin abuse as well, though I don't know what exactly got him banned at the end. Only @Shadower may now. While I would rather give Sylux the benefit of the doubt, let's just assume it was for the same exact reason as yesterday - unless you want to take REALLY old bans into consideration, then there is no way a one month ban would be justified, as there was no recent week ban.
If you want to justify a month ban, then in my personal opinion using a week ban from 08-21-15 is a little weak, as people change during two whole years. If you think that he should have gotten a week earlier, that is fine but matter of fact, he hasn't and Sylux himself definitely cannot be held accountable for that. I'm also curious as to why Zac "only" got muted while Sylux was banned. Zac does not seem to be banned, however. Why is Sylux getting a ban and Zac just an extended mute? As far as I can tell, both are a part of the problem.
Is Sylux in the right here?
Definitely not. The fact that he made binds to specifically annoy that Zac guy is wrong and should not be condoned either. Comments like "zack if you pay me 20 keys i can teach you basic death match" are not helping Sylux's case either. I agree that Zac is definitely not in the right either, but it's just unnecessary on both sides. Someone should have tried to defuse the situation.
What should be done?
First things first I want to make it very clear that I am not speaking on behalf of anyone else. This is my own opinion and you can disagree with me all you want, but don't blame it on others if you do.
I think Sylux's ban should be reduced. I am curently not sure whether we should make it a day (or just unban him by the time this thread is closed) or a week. Looking at his past history, I can understand how some people want a longer ban, but I am not sure if a ban from 11 months ago that was not merely for disrespect is much of a reason to make it a week. This is something that higher ups need to discuss privately before coming to a conclusion.
However, a month is in my opinion too long. Zac on the other hand should either receive a day ban or a very clear warning.
And I want to shoutout @ThunderLimes for making quite useful posts. Good job (y).

We did discuss this issue after the Brian thread actually (just not publicly), though IIRC the consensus was that we should have the punishment match the offense as opposed to some arbitrary number of months that the bans stop counting after.
 
That said, with regards to reducing Sylux's ban, it has been nearly a year since he was last banned and it was for abuse of calladmin/disrespect not trolling and harassment like the current one. However I cannot just ignore his history of inflammatory and disrespectful behavior. So, my proposal is that we reduce his current ban to a week and replace the month punishment with a silence.
With note to @Sylux, stop being such a rude boi to people, it gets you nowhere good quick. Also, other people being part of a problem does NOT make it ok to continue causing it.
 
As for Zack, I would appreciate a proper ban request thread where we can have all of that information in one place to be its own focus of discussion.
Aside from getting his own ban request thread, I have heard that there is some amount of favoritism towards Zack who by most accounts is given much leniency and was only given a day mute. That would be fine if Sylux had gotten a day mute recently prior to this incident, but he didn't. As it turns out Sylux hasn't had a day mute in over 2 years! (from presumably Rejects since SB says the admin was deleted) It seems to me like somebody forgot to mute Sylux for a day or more before jumping to bans. We are given the ability to mute people for more than 30 min for a reason, don't ignore that when it is convenient towards the end of banning people you don't like.

I vouch for Sylux.
 
>Being banned without any warning in my opinion wasn't a justified action. The admin should give them two a warning before any actions were made. Whether it's favoritism or not, it is not a fair treatment.
>True that sylux was told before and was banned in the past however, he served his time and accepted it from his previous bans. I don't think that straight up banning him without saying anything was professional - I thought you guys follow procedures before acting.
>Sylux used to be mod and before he acted, he always do the procedure before acting.
>To be fair, Zack should of just muted him or leave the server. Sylux wasn't forcing him to stay, Zack had the chance to mute him or leave the server.

Zack wasn't banned he was only gagged for 24 hours

I'm going to say it how it is Elcark, I don't like you and I never have and you don't like me and never have it's clear. You are good friends with zack because I joined tgh went it was just 3 players you and zack being on a team to start popluating the server. Even when he was flaming my team mate you both just casually laughed it off and you have always stuck out for him. I could argue with you forever about how he is the instigator and locals who saw would agree and you can argue forever that I am the instigtator and you have your furry friends to help.
 
I do believe i was never kicked or muted for any part in the zack situations, maybe if I was defending val but I can't see when I was kicked/gagged for zack discussions. :thinking: Again you can just make up your side like the 'following' situation when infact me and queen went there to duel because we were tired of his tgh rage, you will always say nono zack said this or no i saw this etc but at this point it's clear it's just a grudge. You are a DM and you have this bias, you are thinking for your friends first over the conrete facts and are doing all you can do to oppose it. There is a reason people are saying they just took zack's bullying :whistle: For the final time i'd like to state he was muted several times by mute client side when he was just flaming as there is little to no point when you just want to frag. 'clearly has a history of this kind of behavior. If his previous history had consisted of just the single day ban mentioned for similar behavior then this time frame would clearly be out of the quest' you are ignoring the history part still, honestly this is one of the most frustrating discussions as people are not listening.
 
As you stated lets not let this spiral out of control, which you claimed earlier but still replied even though I didn't to help de-escalate it all.

I'm going to say it how it is Elcark, I don't like you and I never have and you don't like me and never have it's clear. You are good friends with zack because I joined tgh went it was just 3 players you and zack being on a team to start popluating the server. Even when he was flaming my team mate you both just casually laughed it off and you have always stuck out for him. I could argue with you forever about how he is the instigator and locals who saw would agree and you can argue forever that I am the instigtator and you have your furry friends to help.
 
I do believe i was never kicked or muted for any part in the zack situations, maybe if I was defending val but I can't see when I was kicked/gagged for zack discussions. :thinking: Again you can just make up your side like the 'following' situation when infact me and queen went there to duel because we were tired of his tgh rage, you will always say nono zack said this or no i saw this etc but at this point it's clear it's just a grudge. You are a DM and you have this bias, you are thinking for your friends first over the conrete facts and are doing all you can do to oppose it. There is a reason people are saying they just took zack's bullying :whistle: For the final time i'd like to state he was muted several times by mute client side when he was just flaming as there is little to no point when you just want to frag. 'clearly has a history of this kind of behavior. If his previous history had consisted of just the single day ban mentioned for similar behavior then this time frame would clearly be out of the quest' you are ignoring the history part still, honestly this is one of the most frustrating discussions as people are not listening.
 
As you stated lets not let this spiral out of control, which you claimed earlier but still replied even though I didn't to help de-escalate it all.

I'm going to say it how it is Elcark, I don't like you and I never have and you don't like me and never have it's clear. You are good friends with zack because I joined tgh went it was just 3 players you and zack being on a team to start popluating the server. Even when he was flaming my team mate you both just casually laughed it off and you have always stuck out for him. I could argue with you forever about how he is the instigator and locals who saw would agree and you can argue forever that I am the instigtator and you have your furry friends to help.
 
I do believe i was never kicked or muted for any part in the zack situations, maybe if I was defending val but I can't see when I was kicked/gagged for zack discussions. :thinking: Again you can just make up your side like the 'following' situation when infact me and queen went there to duel because we were tired of his tgh rage, you will always say nono zack said this or no i saw this etc but at this point it's clear it's just a grudge. You are a DM and you have this bias, you are thinking for your friends first over the conrete facts and are doing all you can do to oppose it. There is a reason people are saying they just took zack's bullying :whistle: For the final time i'd like to state he was muted several times by mute client side when he was just flaming as there is little to no point when you just want to frag. 'clearly has a history of this kind of behavior. If his previous history had consisted of just the single day ban mentioned for similar behavior then this time frame would clearly be out of the quest' you are ignoring the history part still, honestly this is one of the most frustrating discussions as people are not listening.
 
As you stated lets not let this spiral out of control, which you claimed earlier but still replied even though I didn't to help de-escalate it all.

Zack wasn't banned he was only gagged for 24 hours

Unfortunately, I only remember being told about that whole "alternate account racism" thing but don't exactly remember what happened or if it was even really his alt. The last ban you got for disrespect or "trolling" was last year, and that was only a day. Don't exactly understand the jump to a month ban, even if he had older bans for longer. As for Zack, I do know he's quite the toxic guy when he is on the server. I am honestly surprised in you guys only giving him a gag instead of a ban as well. From what I read there was a warning and it stopped there, so I don't exactly know why you guys did jump to a ban as quickly as you did without even kicking him beforehand. I do feel as though there is some unfairness in how the situation was handled, even if Sylux has a "history", Zack should be punished exactly the same.
 
+1 to drop the ban to at least a week, if not completely.
+1 to punish Zack with the same length, they're both in the wrong and should be treated with the same punishment for fairness.

Alright, first things first, Sylux you've been a troublemaker for as long as I can remember. If you look at your ban history, you have bans from several old staff members, first of which dates back to 2014. You clearly haven't seemed to have caught on within those 3 years, we've been very lenient on you with bans from the looks of it. -1 for unban, when people ask you to stop using binds for the sole purpose of agitating them, then have some respect and knock it off. Now I could be completely wrong, I haven't actually been on the server with you for a long time, so you may have improved, may not have. Maybe cool it on the servers a little bit and stop being so passive aggressive towards people, even if the things you say are just whatever to you some other people could take it the wrong way.
 
Now on the situation of Zack, if what you say is true then there's definite favoritism going on in terms of him not being punished in the same way you have been. I get Zack hasn't been banned before, but if hes gonna be on the server stirring up problems with people and the mutes clearly aren't doing anything to help, then something needs to change.
 
 

We get that Vexx is a DL and you are an admin and I have utmost respect for that, but if there is literally no proof at all of these conversations/research then we can't base your claims as a root for punishment, or at least we SHOULDN'T.. As in the case of an actual court, unless there is evidence then nothing will happen and you lose the case, and some of the things you say could be considered slander. Now I know this isn't court, but doesn't this feel a little onesided? I would love to take your guys' word for it, but that would be unfair, as much as I'd hate to say it.

citations would be nice if you can/are allowed to provide them.

Thank you krampus for telling me your side, a few questions though.. who is the friend who claims i 'harassing' zacko was it a furry - perhaps a friend of the furry gang or whatever you call them?
 
Yes zack was very quick to kick and shout how I should be banned etc when I muted him as he was not getting his way.
 
 

 
Lan as the genuine and likeable guy you are I am very thankful you talked about the obvious issue outside of the thread. Never have I seen a moderator be so liked whilst being firm and fair on the rules, you have been single handily keeping players on the pkmn server as we all know it is sadly dying so I want to thank you for that here on the public forums.
 
I am definitely preaching against a mass who are heavily against me based on bias and I do not talk to any as I just enjoy the server. I hear from time to time how I am a topic of discussion of some sort of discord or some steam chat is sent to me but honestly it doesn't phase me. I knew being alone trying to stand up for yourself doesn't go a long way when a clan is split into groups, especially when you are protesting against one of the members in a group.
 
Zack is actively recognized for his behaviour but is it acceptable on him by his clique associates :thinking:

I'ma just start off my responses by saying my side of the situation. I had just logged onto tf2 when I had gotten a notification from a friend who was also on the server witnessing what was happening, who told me that sylux had been harassing zack with his binds. So I got to tgh and when I first get on the server I instantly hear basically the same thing over and over again which is zack yelling about how sylux should be banned for targeting him, trolling, and the such in game, which I do get his point that sylux had been trying to troll him, but we do have the friendly and client side mute which can be used for stuff as simple as this. What I saw on Sylux's side was that he was basically doing the bind and joking about zack complaining from him killing him and the bind, which for this it is still pretty bad, but it was still a bit overreaction on zacks side which he has done multiple times in the past and he definitely isn't really any better at times with his responses to people killing him or anything of the sort. So anyway I can instantly can tell that their argument was going nowhere as it was about something very basic and both were egging each other on so I warned them both to stop the fight now and not to talk to each other at all for the most part so that it would end the argument, otherwise I would gag them . Which they had stopped for about five minutes before Zack started going on again about how Sylux should be banned ignoring how I had told them both to stop, where sylux went on also calling zack a kid and saying how he is still talking to agitate zack so I decided to gag them both. Which after that Elcark joined and month banned sylux from previous offenses.
 
Also about the binds and warning him, when I first had gotten there the binds did not appear to be that bad to warrant that much concern but after a while of seeing the situation go on and being told by other staff about how it is a bit too much I then did warn him not to use the bind, which shouldn't have mattered much anyway considering both were supposed to not be talking to each other in general to stop them from instigating.
 
In my opinion they were both in the wrong here as you were fully aware about how you were egging him on and how he would respond to it, and how that does not give Zack an excuse to react the way he did either. So I see it that it should be -1 for unban but to me a week ban would be more justified considering both sides were at blame for the most part and it did not seem severe enough to jump from the previous day ban a year ago (yes I know that there is no decay and that he has had future altercations) to a month now, but then again everyone does have their own opinion for how bad something truly is so I do understand why others would see a month to be more suiting. Also about your ban request for Zack I would actually have to say +1 for atleast a day ban for some kind of real record, I know that he had received a day mute and does not get in trouble as much as you but he was not really any better with his reaction to Sylux's actions, and how this has happened multiple times in the past and never payed much mind for the most part.

Thanks winslow brother 2, but again year gap is still a long time think of the changes you were faced over 2 years (especially sam) :thinking: 'Multiple issues' since the last ban however I have not been banned for such thing? The bind was only posted after he immediately joined and shit talked me and my friend for being there - if you are claiming his ban - sorry his mute is justified because of 'he had been in trouble notably less than you have' that is complete aids and is favouritism at it's maximum fitness.

I'm sorry, I don't like getting into arguments here, but I can't with a good conscience support the idea of someone getting a month ban for using binds that some other player didn't like. Especially so in the case of Zack, like I have no problem with the dude, but he doesn't even try to be non-confrontational. He is by one of the most toxic and most dramatic of our semi-regular players, and most of the shit he gives people is almost always completely unprovoked.
 
Additionally calling direct quotes harassment is a real fucking stretch even if the player being quoted in question doesn't like it. Wikipedia pointing out that Michael Richards was in fact an idiot who shouted racially charged slurs via a direct quote isn't "harassment", it's not up to other people to forgive and forget your idiocy and move on. If you said something stupid, you have to correct the record yourself, not just expect other people to drop it.
 
On an unrelated note, I think one of the main reasons other people aren't protesting against Sylux's ban is because he isn't part of any real "in" group. He doesn't have 9 to 13 people in a discord to back him up regardless of what happens, and I do think that people who don't like him (rightly or wrongly) are going to try and use it against him. The best part is, I personally have witnessed other people within in groups trying to target Zack in order to set him off, and I myself was guilty of the same when I didn't really know much about him, which really leaves me no choice but to assume there's some form of bias here.
 
Sylux's supposed previous infractions are months old, and I doubt his intentions in this case were to do anything but swing back. Justifiably so in my opinion. If each party was given a day ban for bickering, whatever, but a month is too much to throw on a single individual regardless of past bans.
 
+1

Are you fricking kidding me HAHA
"The multiple issues include you going on an alternate account and being racist (including anonymous tip-offs and reports that I gave to I believe @Vexx though I may be mistaken),"
That is complete speculation from one of you kids making up rubbish, you can track ips silly gooses. It's fair to say you've lost all credibility in this response since you're now using idle rumours as a point to jusifty my ban. I will use your line of 'irrelevant' to rice gum as you can claim what's relevant and not for your own personal gain