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Bhopping on Deathrun

Do you think Bhop should be added to Deathrun?  

23 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you think Bhop should be added to Deathrun?

    • Yeah, that'd be neat
      10
    • No. What are you doing, do you want to break everything?
      13


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This is something that's been on my mind for a very very long time. Adding the ability to Bhop on our Deathrun server.

 

Why you may ask? Firstly, because it's fun. Secondly, because if you play regularly on our Deathrun server, you'll know that there's quite a few traps that you absolutely cannot escape or get past. Be it a ridiculously large hitbox, a quick moving (sometimes invisible) hazard, or it just being a huge trap. Bhopping could help Runners get through normally impossible or very difficult traps, or even help the Death catch up to people rushing on maps without a pusher.

 

Obviously, however, Bhopping could also make the game much more difficult for those playing Death. How are you gonna catch them when they're moving at Mach 2? Simple, limit the max speed. I believe this is what our Surf server uses (please correct me if I'm wrong), and I propose we use this plugin for Deathrun, considering you have more control over the max speed a player can get and it's much much more customizable.

 

I think Deathrun Redux automatically sets all player's speeds to 300 (except Death) unless our server has it edited.

So perhaps set the max obtainable speed to 400-450? Hopefully the plugins use the same unit of measurement...

 

I'm gonna put up a poll to see if anyone else who plays DR might be interested in this, or if the majority of players prefer vanilla(ish) Deathrun.

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Bhopping not being a thing on deathrun is the reason why I don't enjoy it. I used to be a superadmin (DM) of a jailbreak/deathrun server on Garry's Mod before I came to xG and I only enjoyed deathrun because it had bhopping in. It feels way too slow now so I feel like bhopping with a max speed limit should be considered and tried out. Obviously it's a major change to the server and a lot of people won't accept it with open arms which is why it might be a good idea to give it a test run. +1

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Correct

 

 

These are the values we use on DR currently, just to have something to compare with.

 

>
           "runners"    "300.0"    //On the runners team
           "death"        "400.0"    //On the death

 

Interesting idea for sure, i think it might worth at least trying out to see what the reaction to it would be. If it doesn't work out we can always go back. The only thing im curious about is how the deathrun plugin interacts with other movement based plugins. No biggie though, we'll figure that out if we do make the switch.

Edited by Guest (see edit history)

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Bhopping not being a thing on deathrun is the reason why I don't enjoy it. I used to be a superadmin (DM) of a jailbreak/deathrun server on Garry's Mod before I came to xG and I only enjoyed deathrun because it had bhopping in. It feels way too slow now so I feel like bhopping with a max speed limit should be considered and tried out. Obviously it's a major change to the server and a lot of people won't accept it with open arms which is why it might be a good idea to give it a test run. +1

 

Same. I used to regular a Gmod Deathrun server a few years back. It's a completely different beast when you can give yourself a boost on some of the slower parts. Delaying wasn't as much of a problem as it is in TF2 because of it.

 

Correct

 

 

These are the values we use on DR currently, just to have something to compare with.

 

>
           "runners"    "300.0"    //On the runners team
           "death"        "400.0"    //On the death

 

Interesting idea for sure, i think it might worth at least trying out to see what the reaction to it would be. If it doesn't work out we can always go back. The only thing im curious about is how the deathrun plugin interacts with other movement based plugins. No biggie though, we'll figure that out if we do make the switch.

 

Neat. I'm hoping it won't since it doesn't seem to limit a players speed if they go on speed altering brushes and entities on maps. Looks like it only alters a players base walking speed, hopefully.

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First of all bhopping is a ability to gain speed by hopping and straifing. This allows the player to gain momentum. This is clearly broken being able the hop of traps, speed run past the death and traps. There's reason why bhop is in surf because it doesn't effect any of the players, but in dr it's one blue against a number of reds giving a unfair un advantage to keep up with the reds. -1

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Sorry man but I'ma -1 this since there are a lot of open maps and if we were to add bhopping it just would suck for the death even with a set speed, such as on maps like bandicoot or phycopath with really bad buttons and easy bhopping areas. It would be fun for the runners but who would want to be death if they knew that people could just jump by traps rapidly with speed runners having an easier time.

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The problem with this is mostly that you cant use +use to activate buttons, the delay on swings makes it hard enough to the point that you need to predict on some traps. Giving people more speed + the delay makes it almost impossible for death unless you get lucky and if you make it too small of a cap no one would even bother doing it. -1

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-1 Sorry bud. It would make the game WAY too easy and you could blow through it quickly. Wouldn't be very fair for the other people that can't bhop or the death because he would be too slow for the traps.

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-1 Sorry bud. It would make the game WAY too easy and you could blow through it quickly. Wouldn't be very fair for the other people that can't bhop or the death because he would be too slow for the traps.

I mean it doesn't make it easier. It makes it more challenging in some ways. Bhopping from platform to platform is not exactly easy. Plus if you can't bhop it gives you a chance to learn it.

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I mean it doesn't make it easier. It makes it more challenging in some ways. Bhopping from platform to platform is not exactly easy. Plus if you can't bhop it gives you a chance to learn it.

But like if I wanted to go bhop I would just go to surf or something and it wouldn't make it harder for the runners since it's just a straight upgrade to what they have now. It would be more fun for some of the runners but like I said earlier, why would I want to be death when some guy who is a good bhopper or has a script can just jump by everything before the animation to hit the button is even finished on my side and avoid a lot of traps on most maps. It sucks though since it would be fun to have it on the server since I like bhopping when I'm bored but I can't really see anyway that it would benefit the server such as to not hurt it as much as it helps it.

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I will now attempt to address all the concerns brought up in this thread thus far:

 

First of all bhopping is a ability to gain speed by hopping and straifing. This allows the player to gain momentum. This is clearly broken being able the hop of traps, speed run past the death and traps. There's reason why bhop is in surf because it doesn't effect any of the players, but in dr it's one blue against a number of reds giving a unfair un advantage to keep up with the reds. -1

 

-1 people could just gain enough speed to run through the entire map in like 2 seconds

it's how it works in gmod dr servers

 

-1 Sorry bud. It would make the game WAY too easy and you could blow through it quickly. Wouldn't be very fair for the other people that can't bhop or the death because he would be too slow for the traps.

 

True. However, you could simply speed the Death up to counteract this. Example: Gmod Deathrun uses mostly CS:S maps, and in those maps are a (now obsolete) entity called a Speedmod. What it does is as soon as Death spawns on it, he's given a speed boost. Not for certain amount of time, but by setting his base walking speed higher than that of the runners, since most CS:S maps didn't include a pusher.

Our Deathrun plugin has this ability built in. We could simply boost Death's base speed up to, or just above, the Runner's max Bhop speed (which would also solve rushing issues on maps without pushers).

 

Next you're going to say: "What's the point of Bhopping then if Death's speed is higher or equal to the max Bhopping speed?"

 

Simple. Bhopping is for trap avoidance/mind games with the Death, trying to throw him off to prematurely activate the trap. Since Bhopping also increases the amount of strafe control you have, it makes baiting a more viable option, especially if players have more confidence in trying to bait the Death other than "Welp, someone has to die here". This would hopefully reduce the amount of delaying on maps, since people might actually try to progress.

 

Sorry man but I'ma -1 this since there are a lot of open maps and if we were to add bhopping it just would suck for the death even with a set speed, such as on maps like bandicoot or phycopath with really bad buttons and easy bhopping areas. It would be fun for the runners but who would want to be death if they knew that people could just jump by traps rapidly with speed runners having an easier time.

 

Psykopat has tons of obstacles to avoid as well. Areas where you could fall, die from an auto trap, or be stopped for a short period of time as you try to break a object in your path. Bandicoot also has a lot of areas that could interrupt Bhop flow, as it were. Since there are areas you'd need time well. Hell, Bandicoot even has a Bhop minigame.

 

All it takes is one person using a script to completely ruin the game. -1

 

It would be more fun for some of the runners but like I said earlier, why would I want to be death when some guy who is a good bhopper or has a script can just jump by everything before the animation to hit the button is even finished on my side and avoid a lot of traps on most maps.

 

Scripts are just autohop binds, which is literally a feature in the plugin I linked (though it is optional). Even if someone is using an autohop script, they'd still have to know how to strafe correctly. You could even make the necessary amount of strafe increased. So you'd have to make a larger strafe to build speed, but the reward would be worth it. I don't believe there's a script to automatically strafe for you as well, but for Bhopping it would be incredibly inaccurate, since you'd have no control of it whatsoever.

 

The problem with this is mostly that you cant use +use to activate buttons, the delay on swings makes it hard enough to the point that you need to predict on some traps. Giving people more speed + the delay makes it almost impossible for death unless you get lucky and if you make it too small of a cap no one would even bother doing it. -1

 

Nothing you can do about the buttons, honestly. That's just bad design. If Death's speed were increased, I'd feel more people would end up dying in the delayed traps more than they do now. Currently, people slightly walk into range of the trap in a straight line, then jump out in a straight line. If they could build speed then they'd have more confidence they could make it all the way through, and probably end up dying from it.

Again, Bhopping would mostly be for trap avoidance and not just rushing.

 

Honestly, I didn't expect this much negative feedback from this suggestion, but that's why this is a discussion. After all, we are a community, and if the community would prefer it not to be changed, then so be it.

Plus, I'd hate to be known as the guy who ruined Deathrun.

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I will now attempt to address all the concerns brought up in this thread thus far:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

True. However, you could simply speed the Death up to counteract this. Example: Gmod Deathrun uses mostly CS:S maps, and in those maps are a (now obsolete) entity called a Speedmod. What it does is as soon as Death spawns on it, he's given a speed boost. Not for certain amount of time, but by setting his base walking speed higher than that of the runners, since most CS:S maps didn't include a pusher.

Our Deathrun plugin has this ability built in. We could simply boost Death's base speed up to, or just above, the Runner's max Bhop speed (which would also solve rushing issues on maps without pushers).

 

Next you're going to say: "What's the point of Bhopping then if Death's speed is higher or equal to the max Bhopping speed?"

 

Simple. Bhopping is for trap avoidance/mind games with the Death, trying to throw him off to prematurely activate the trap. Since Bhopping also increases the amount of strafe control you have, it makes baiting a more viable option, especially if players have more confidence in trying to bait the Death other than "Welp, someone has to die here". This would hopefully reduce the amount of delaying on maps, since people might actually try to progress.

 

 

 

Psykopat has tons of obstacles to avoid as well. Areas where you could fall, die from an auto trap, or be stopped for a short period of time as you try to break a object in your path. Bandicoot also has a lot of areas that could interrupt Bhop flow, as it were. Since there are areas you'd need time well. Hell, Bandicoot even has a Bhop minigame.

 

 

 

 

 

Scripts are just autohop binds, which is literally a feature in the plugin I linked (though it is optional). Even if someone is using an autohop script, they'd still have to know how to strafe correctly. You could even make the necessary amount of strafe increased. So you'd have to make a larger strafe to build speed, but the reward would be worth it. I don't believe there's a script to automatically strafe for you as well, but for Bhopping it would be incredibly inaccurate, since you'd have no control of it whatsoever.

 

 

 

Nothing you can do about the buttons, honestly. That's just bad design. If Death's speed were increased, I'd feel more people would end up dying in the delayed traps more than they do now. Currently, people slightly walk into range of the trap in a straight line, then jump out in a straight line. If they could build speed then they'd have more confidence they could make it all the way through, and probably end up dying from it.

Again, Bhopping would mostly be for trap avoidance and not just rushing.

 

Honestly, I didn't expect this much negative feedback from this suggestion, but that's why this is a discussion. After all, we are a community, and if the community would prefer it not to be changed, then so be it.

Plus, I'd hate to be known as the guy who ruined Deathrun.

Tl;dr?

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Tl;dr?

IIRC we could solve rushing by just letting the death run faster than people can bhop, people with autohop scripts still need to know how to strafe, plenty of maps don't necessarily help bhopping, and not letting people use +use is bad map design.

 

As for myself I would really like to have bhops on DR, so long as we have any autohop command disabled. Sure you could get a script, but in my experience from the surf server the number of people who use bhop scripts is really low (strafing is the harder part anyways imo). +1

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True. However, you could simply speed the Death up to counteract this. Example: Gmod Deathrun uses mostly CS:S maps, and in those maps are a (now obsolete) entity called a Speedmod. What it does is as soon as Death spawns on it, he's given a speed boost. Not for certain amount of time, but by setting his base walking speed higher than that of the runners, since most CS:S maps didn't include a pusher.

Our Deathrun plugin has this ability built in. We could simply boost Death's base speed up to, or just above, the Runner's max Bhop speed (which would also solve rushing issues on maps without pushers).

But even if the death is faster and can catch up that doesn't mean he'll have enough time to react fast enough to where the runner is and hit the trap on time, especially for new players who have just joined the server as it won't be fun for them since they will struggle to hit any of the buttons on time to catch anyone. Also bhopping may not be good everywhere on the map but it does make it easy to skip large chunks of the map easily and the point of deathrun in my opinion is for the runners to try and outsmart/bait the death in order to get them to survive and if we were to add this it wouldn't be like this much anymore as people could just run by traps too fast and not even have to bait the death.

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