Rabid 173 Posted March 23, 2019 Member's Name Guest Information Obviously this isn't me trying to remove his staff, as I'm sure he's good staff in his respective division, but the powers that some "members" I'll call him get in other channels, or over discord entirely is clearly too much for some to handle and they feel the need to e-flex hard. With that said I'm not in full right here, but what I did did not justify his reasoning for a mute, not even close. The warns, the mutes, the kicks or bans, is way to much for some discord mods and rather think it should be regulated to respective channels and also not weigh opinions in other communities channels, if they're not dm or higher. or newer staff in the division. Idk how the snow flakes in tf2 deal with problems, but we talk them out weather through banter, or actual problem solving, not straight to mutes. Obviously this thread is going to be @'d all discord moderators, cs mods, and so fourth. not just him, Please respect your position in power, please learn to talk instead of muting, please learn that you're not above members as we have equal say in a vast majority problems. (I have no ideas if the screenshots are in order) And last, I'd just like to make this suggestion here, since every one is too retarded to find an actual solution to the @10manner problem that is soooooooooooooooo rampant in the #csgo channel Anyway just make a Text channel attached to csgo scrim waiting room and don't allow the use of @10manner in other channels maybe once every 30minutes or if there is X amount of people in the channel, you guys can hash that ruling shit out since you're too stupid too put your heads together and just want to complain any time someone @10manners Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaygoki 237 Posted March 23, 2019 just want to point out because I know it's going to happen this isn't the place to discuss the 10 manner role issue, we can make a separate thread for that 1 hongkongatron reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tatost 604 Posted March 23, 2019 Just going to highlight this section of the chat, as it's by far the most important thing that was said during the entirety of the discussion. You were warned that you were going to be muted, and you were because you continued to berate, escalate, and continue. 12 minutes ago, Rabid said: The warns, the mutes, the kicks or bans, is way to much for some discord mods and rather think it should be regulated to respective channels and also not weigh opinions in other communities channels, if they're not dm or higher. or newer staff in the division. Idk how the snow flakes in tf2 deal with problems, but we talk them out weather through banter, or actual problem solving, not straight to mutes. The entire point of having discord moderators is to moderate the text and voice channels, in what world does it make sense for us to not have powers in channels that we don't belong to? (I'm actually part of the CS div and have been for the last several months, so I don't know why my opinion doesn't matter to you...). Solving problems through an argument gets you nowhere, and this isn't an exception. People stick with their ideology and keep arguing the same points over and over and over again. To prevent chat spam we end arguments as early as possible, but sometimes people (like you and Steven) are too stubborn to chill out, so we have to resort to mutes/kicks/bans depending on the situation. In regards to your mute, it's entirely my fault and no one else's. I was told that times on punishments were jank, but I was under the impression that it meant all of them, not just bans. I would have set an actual time on the mute if I had known better. The absence of time stamps on the mute is just me trying to shut people up as fast as possible before anything else was said. In short, I'm sorry I fucked up your mute, but you are unmuted now so I don't see as to why this continues to be an issue. Hopefully, you can understand where I'm coming from and we don't have to have a huge thread over a very slight mistake. But please, if something similar to this ever pops up in chat, refrain from resorting to toxic remarks and at least show some level of respect towards staff members. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rabid 173 Posted March 23, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Tatost said: The entire point of having discord moderators is to moderate the text and voice channels, in what world does it make sense for us to not have powers in channels that we don't belong to? (I'm actually part of the CS div and have been for the last several months, so I don't know why my opinion doesn't matter to you. Didn't read the entire thread. i'll end it right there. Don't get an actual response until you read the whole thing. Edited March 23, 2019 by Rabid (see edit history) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tatost 604 Posted March 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, Rabid said: Didn't read the entire thread. i'll end it right there. Don't get an actual response until you read the whole thing. Elaborate, because you don't make any sense here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hongkongatron 384 Posted March 23, 2019 The entirety of the discussion beforehand was my explaining the purpose of previous punishments and what policies I and multiple other staff members hold on the current 10man tagging situation. The discussion you bring up, however, was directed solely on dropping a conversation that was quickly going to nowhere but berating one another. You can read back in those convos where I not only unmuted you, but opted not to mute others because I also share the view of actually solving problems rather than putting a bandaid on them by issuing a warning or other immediate punishment. @Rabid Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rabid 173 Posted March 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Rabid said: or newer staff in the division. @Tatost Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MineCrack 62 Posted March 23, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tatost said: Just going to highlight this section of the chat, as it's by far the most important thing that was said during the entirety of the discussion. You were warned that you were going to be muted, and you were because you continued to berate, escalate, and continue. Why are you taking that warning out of context? That was generalized towards people arguing over the 10man tag usage, not Rabid's response. Rabid's response to that is purely derived from the fact Hong not only participated in the argument, but decided to carry it on. To carry on an argument for as long as he did then threaten to end it by using his discord powers is extremely childish and borderline a power trip. It should have never happened in the first place. 1 hour ago, Tatost said: Solving problems through an argument gets you nowhere, and this isn't an exception. People stick with their ideology and keep arguing the same points over and over and over again. An argument is an exchange of opposite views with the attempt for parties involved to reason with each other. Saying an argument will get you nowhere and that people will "stick with their ideologies" is both false and projecting your own opinion. 1 hour ago, Tatost said: To prevent chat spam we end arguments as early as possible, but sometimes people (like you and Steven) are too stubborn to chill out, so we have to resort to mutes/kicks/bans depending on the situation. Chat spam is meaningless and pointless messages, an argument over certain policies is not chat spam (xD). 1 hour ago, Tatost said: In regards to your mute, it's entirely my fault and no one else's. I was told that times on punishments were jank, but I was under the impression that it meant all of them, not just bans. I would have set an actual time on the mute if I had known better. The absence of time stamps on the mute is just me trying to shut people up as fast as possible before anything else was said. In short, I'm sorry I fucked up your mute, but you are unmuted now so I don't see as to why this continues to be an issue. Hopefully, you can understand where I'm coming from and we don't have to have a huge thread over a very slight mistake. You accidentally permanently muting him wasn't even the problem. The fact you muted him in the first place was the problem, and people even agreed it was unwarranted. If you actually believed the mute was deserved you would have proceeded to fix your mute to be 30 minutes. Instead, you decided to stop talking and not mute him at all (wow this probably should have been done by staff during the argument). Lastly, 1 hour ago, Tatost said: But please, if something similar to this ever pops up in chat, refrain from resorting to toxic remarks and at least show some level of respect towards staff members. If you're going to be staff please don't be so sensitive. Yes, Rabid's comments were unnecessary but your reaction to the severity of what he said screams you are emotional and can respond irrationally if rubbed the wrong way. Edited March 23, 2019 by MineCrack xdddd (see edit history) 1 WafflesL reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hongkongatron 384 Posted March 23, 2019 27 minutes ago, MineCrack said: Rabid's response to that is purely derived from the fact Hong not only participated in the argument, but decided to carry it on. To carry on an argument for as long as he did then threaten to end it by using his discord powers is extremely childish and borderline a power trip. It should have never happened in the first place. If you read my response to Rabid I explained that I was elaborating on the reasons for the punishments of 10man spam, and as soon as it got to the point where there was no longer any meaning in the debate and it was just insults back and forth between others, I gave warnings in chat. That was also not only warning I gave, so it's not as if I just suddenly saw fit to end it with a warning. Only when I saw that it would escalate into people pointlessly berating people did I take action; it was heated, but there was purpose behind the initial argument, unlike how it turned into. I actually would have given warnings sooner, but my discord took ages for me to receive + send messages. Stopping a pointless flamewar is a childish power trip? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tatost 604 Posted March 24, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rabid said: @Tatost 2 hours ago, Rabid said: please learn that you're not above members as we have equal say in a vast majority problems. @Rabid I was a member of the CS div for months Edited March 24, 2019 by Tatost (see edit history) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MineCrack 62 Posted March 24, 2019 53 minutes ago, hongkongatron said: If you read my response to Rabid I explained that I was elaborating on the reasons for the punishments of 10man spam, and as soon as it got to the point where there was no longer any meaning in the debate and it was just insults back and forth between others, I gave warnings in chat. That was also not only warning I gave, so it's not as if I just suddenly saw fit to end it with a warning. Only when I saw that it would escalate into people pointlessly berating people did I take action; it was heated, but there was purpose behind the initial argument, unlike how it turned into. I actually would have given warnings sooner, but my discord took ages for me to receive + send messages. Stopping a pointless flamewar is a childish power trip? Why are you selectively reading my quote? 1 hour ago, MineCrack said: To carry on an argument for as long as he did then threaten to end it by using his discord powers is extremely childish and borderline a power trip. It should have never happened in the first place. I never said stopping the nonsense in #csgo was a childish power trip. Your participation by feeding Steven is childish, and calling it a "flamewar" when it was just Steven freaking out while other people are trying to input valuable opinions is borderline a power trip (hence, I never said it was actually a power trip). 1 1 lilbleed and hongkongatron reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tatost 604 Posted March 24, 2019 2 hours ago, MineCrack said: You accidentally permanently muting him wasn't even the problem. The fact you muted him in the first place was the problem, and people even agreed it was unwarranted. He didn't see the warning which was why he thought it was unwarranted lol. He got unmuted because I didn't put timestamps or mute time in there Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaygoki 237 Posted March 24, 2019 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Tatost said: He didn't see the warning which was why he thought it was unwarranted lol. He got unmuted because I didn't put timestamps or mute time in there I'm p sure Rabid did see it - "don't threaten people like that over a tag" was in reference to the warning if I'm reading correctly I suck at reading. Edited March 24, 2019 by Bonk (see edit history) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScottNi 51 Posted March 24, 2019 Holy shit this whole thread is childish at this point 1 3 Tekk, RazorScooter, Darrth and 1 other reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Topaz 140 Posted March 24, 2019 What exactly was this thread meant to accomplish? From what I have seen so far it has just been a bunch of petty back-and-forth 'you're wrong, here's why!' I am all for constructive criticism, but this seems far too public for something of this nature. Before I go any further, I was not there when this happened, I just read through the chat after the fact. (Jesus christ.) But because I have nothing better to do on a Saturday night, suppose I should just get the highlight reel going. 4 hours ago, Rabid said: Please respect your position in power, please learn to talk instead of muting, please learn that you're not above members as we have equal say in a vast majority problems. @Rabid respect is a two way street, while staff absolutely have an obligation to at the very least act respectful towards members and players, the same is true for members towards staff. I know that a lot of what people take away as you being 'toxic' is just the way that you naturally type/talk, but even still you can get a little overzealous and this situation is a good example of it. 2 hours ago, MineCrack said: Why are you taking that warning out of context? That was generalized towards people arguing over the 10man tag usage, not Rabid's response. But it was his response that resulted in the mute. The only thing I can agree on was that the mute was a bit impulsive and not evenly distributed given the shitshow that was above it. Nonetheless, it was not really taking the context away, as long as you actually read what was in this entire thread above it. 2 hours ago, MineCrack said: To carry on an argument for as long as he did then threaten to end it by using his discord powers is extremely childish and borderline a power trip wat. To be perfectly clear, I do agree that staff should not engage in stupid/petty arguments. That being said, it has to stop at some point, and using his powers is a sure fire way of doing it. If steven had an issue with that, well, just use DMs. In fact, that is kind of a recurring theme for most the the issues here. But I digress. 2 hours ago, MineCrack said: An argument is an exchange of opposite views with the attempt for parties involved to reason with each other. Saying an argument will get you nowhere and that people will "stick with their ideologies" is both false and projecting your own opinion. This may just be semantics, but I believe most of us can distinguish the difference between a civil debate and a childish argument. 2 hours ago, MineCrack said: Chat spam is meaningless and pointless messages, an argument over certain policies is not chat spam (xD). Right, but if the channel becomes flooded with petty responses and points that equate to non-starters, that is spam. Just reading through the logs kind of shows that is exactly what it turned into. On both sides. 2 hours ago, MineCrack said: and people even agreed it was unwarranted. Two people (one of which apparently later rescinded his comment after realizing a warning had occured) does not make a majority. Pretending like there was unwavering support against the mute when in reality only small handful of people cared either way may as well be a lie. Bruh. 2 hours ago, MineCrack said: If you actually believed the mute was deserved you would have proceeded to fix your mute to be 30 minutes. Instead, you decided to stop talking and not mute him at all (wow this probably should have been done by staff during the argument). Actually do agree with this, no matter how heated things are, as long as the time function is working you should have fixed it and perhaps elaborated a bit more on your mute reason. @Tatost 1 hour ago, MineCrack said: I never said stopping the nonsense in #csgo was a childish power trip. Your participation by feeding Steven is childish, and calling it a "flamewar" when it was just Steven freaking out while other people are trying to input valuable opinions is borderline a power trip (hence, I never said it was actually a power trip). Okay. 1 hour ago, MineCrack said: (hence, I never said it was actually a power trip). okay. So. I once again have to ask why a thread like this was even made, given the vast majority of things here could have been said in DMs. Just feels like a weird attempt at a public shaming for something that was not even a big deal to begin with. To conclude, stop acting like children. @everyone should treat @everyone with respect. Y'all know better than this, no need to be best friends with each other but hot damn. Please do take a step back and look at how weirdly petty this entire thread looks. Unless for some reason higherups feel like some sort of action should be taken against @hongkongatron and @Tatost, than perhaps this should be closed? 3 1 2 Darrth, Tekk, YeEternalTuna and 3 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites