kbraszzz

OP was never banned and we jump right to the perm? Maybe instead of gagging him 20+ times we just give him a good old day ban? I lowered his ban to a week. feel free to ban him for a larger period of time when/if he needs it again.
 
Just don't jump right to a perm, And yes I'm a few days late.

OP was never banned and we jump right to the perm? Maybe instead of gagging him 20+ times we just give him a good old day ban? I lowered his ban to a week. feel free to ban him for a larger period of time when/if he needs it again.
 
Just don't jump right to a perm, And yes I'm a few days late.

OP was never banned and we jump right to the perm? Maybe instead of gagging him 20+ times we just give him a good old day ban? I lowered his ban to a week. feel free to ban him for a larger period of time when/if he needs it again.
 
Just don't jump right to a perm, And yes I'm a few days late.

OP was never banned and we jump right to the perm? Maybe instead of gagging him 20+ times we just give him a good old day ban? I lowered his ban to a week. feel free to ban him for a larger period of time when/if he needs it again.
 
Just don't jump right to a perm, And yes I'm a few days late.

OP was never banned and we jump right to the perm? Maybe instead of gagging him 20+ times we just give him a good old day ban? I lowered his ban to a week. feel free to ban him for a larger period of time when/if he needs it again.
 
Just don't jump right to a perm, And yes I'm a few days late.

OP was never banned and we jump right to the perm? Maybe instead of gagging him 20+ times we just give him a good old day ban? I lowered his ban to a week. feel free to ban him for a larger period of time when/if he needs it again.
 
Just don't jump right to a perm, And yes I'm a few days late.

Division:

Team Fortress 2 In-Game Name:

Sirflash Steam ID:

STEAM_0:1:80090954 Ban Type:

Server Ban Information:

Ok so heres how it went
So i was swing my pan as scout and i didnt even swing it 15 times and then Avenger, who was warden told me to stop pan spaming so then i swung it like once more right after he said it, not on purpose though. So then like 5 seconds later I swung it, only once. OhStopYou then shoots me so then say "swinging it once is not spamming" so then he said "you are just swinging it slower" so then i said "swinging it once is not spamming" so he then says "you are loopholeing so hard right now" which he then says "my name is OhStopYou, so just stop". I then say "so then stop complaining" which i followed up with "*Lenny*/", exactly that. Then he said "I'm done" then banned me. I do not believe that, that is a justifiable reason for a permament ban. And so do Caleb956, ^xG^ Jänal, [xG|Rep]Swag

.. It's only easy to obtain "membership" because Division Managers aren't putting their foot down on what is considered a valid vouch as opposed to a "this is the first thing I could come up with to support my +1 even though it has no specific relevance to this particular person and is a very general statement." If you want change, it begins with the Higher-Ups imposing a stricter policy on Member Submissions, as it already should be.
 
Take a look at our Membership Submission Guidelines and you'll notice a handful of things that go unheeded. However, I don't want to put the blame solely on Higher-Ups simply because Members have to do their part in compiling a meaningful vouch that actually pertains to each individual in some way. At this point, it feels like those accepting new applicants are just skimming through and counting the +1s that a particular applicant has before slapping on the "Congratulations, you were able to get into our exclusive clan". Mind you this only applies to those select few and is merely an opinion with no evidence or the like. In the end, the Division Managers/Leaders are the ones who decide who gets in for their respective Divisions. If you have beef with people who are getting into the clan that are immature, then confront your respective Manager/Leader and give them the business. Hell, you have Member Submissions to pull valid evidence from for vouches that were invalid if you need "proof" that they shouldn't even be a Member.
 
It can be just as difficult to get membership as it can be to face (legitimate) expulsion from the clan. Honestly, if you have to go out of your way to actively seek out proof or evidence against someone every day and can't find any, then chances are that this is actually some personal vendetta you have against that individual. If the offending person is as toxic or as obnoxious as someone claims them to be, then it should be an easy task to get evidence. Kicking someone from the clan for no reason other than "we don't like him/her" is by no means a legitimate reason or justified solution and shouldn't even be considered.
 

 
This is a prime example of someone hung up on their personal vendetta against someone. If you (in general) were to look back at Matsi's protest thread and were to wade through all of the hate and anger, you'll find very valid points that were made to support him. That thread was the first major thread to address his behaviour, and as such the only logical solution would be to issue a publicly stated warning, a cease and desist notice for a lack of better words. Anything further would just be unfair and not justified in the least.
 
Those of you who keep shouting "we aren't being listened to" don't seem to get it; you're blinded by your own values and desires. You're looking through an opaque glass that focuses solely on results as opposed to listening to rationality. Your opinions didn't go unheeded, but just because there is a large group of people against someone, that doesn't mean their condemnations outweigh the right thing to do. Obviously your sheer outrage has been noticed and has resulted in a strike against Matsi's standing, meaning that the next time he is out of turn he will receive a punishment. Isn't that progress? Does that not mean that you were heard? No, instead, in your eyes it just means that because he wasn't out right banned or faced expulsion from the clan, the Higher-Ups didn't listen to you and therefore you aren't entitled to an opinion. Not everything you say or do will result in immediate action, and this applies everywhere. This is why we [should] have level-headed Higher-Ups who try their best to appeal to both sides of an argument. They consider both sides of the argument and determine the best outcome that is fair and just.
 
It isn't easy being someone with that kind of power and responsibility, seriously. As a retired Co-Leader I can attest to that.
 
EDIT: For the sake of salvaging what's left of this thread, it isn't my intention to open up a can of worms. If you want to directly reply to this post, just shoot me a PM or something and I'll be glad to discuss it. Hell, even open up a new thread and discuss it there, that would be fine. I just implore you to not do it here so that this whole "Age Requirement" thing can be discussed properly :coffee:

Let's lower the age limit to 13.
 
And perhaps we can get back to vouching properly instead of just leaving a +1 and not leaving a M or A Rating.

Let's lower the age limit to 13.
 
And perhaps we can get back to vouching properly instead of just leaving a +1 and not leaving a M or A Rating.

Let's lower the age limit to 13.
 
And perhaps we can get back to vouching properly instead of just leaving a +1 and not leaving a M or A Rating.

OP is unbanned.
We will be talking about Hachi.
-Closed

I'm gonna get shot for saying this.
 
I got nothing personal against @Matsi the worst I seen before the whole dog jacking thing was him having a fight with @Hachi on our servers.
 
I do think he should keep this shit away from our servers but as far as I know he never talked about jacking off dogs on anything besides Teamspeak/Forums.
 
The whole Blowjob Booze thing is Disgusting yes but worse things have been said but others on the Forums and Teamspeak as well.
 
This is very similar to the many times the TF2 division attempted to get Vector Permed, With the lack proof but the majority still wanting him gone.
 
And look Vector is still here and the most he got was a 6 month ban.
 
If that does not sway you and you still believe he should be permed then we should run around perming more people then just Matsi for shit like this.
 
On the subject of it being a Federal Crime Matsi is in fact correct it's not a Federal Crime in the USA.
 
Yes it's something he should not talk about in front of others however he only brought up the dog when Rabid asked can you fuck wolves.
 
It's for these reasons I feel he should not be Permed and he should not have his membership revoked.
 
The most i would approve of is a small ban if everyone really REALLY can't handle him.
 
I'm ready to be hanged now.

+:shrekd:

-1

Solely basing my opinion off of my previous questions (found Here) as well as what I've seen outside of the TF2 Servers, primarily in the xG forums.
 
Given the circumstances, I won't be typing out some massive wall of text (I looked back on this and, straight up, I lied) due to the fact that most of what I would bring up has already been brought up in this thread. That being said, it'll still be a lengthy read. To allow an easier time, I'll briefly summarize the main points that I believe were made in this thread with my added opinion.
 
1. Offensive Material
 
So far, this has been one of the biggest pieces of kindle to the fire, if not the open flame to the firestorm. It's understandable that no one wants to see or hear about the "offensive" material Matsi has brought up, but from what I've personally seen, 9/10 times these moments were instigated or even provoked. Mock the guy by saying something like "go have sex with a dog" (extreme example) and you damn well better expect him to retaliate with something just as vulgar. However, with that being said, it is just as unacceptable for Matsi to talk in detail about something as "offensive" as what he [supposedly] did, especially in the presence of minors either in or out of the Server. While this may be the case, I'd like to remind everyone that vulgarities are a common thing online. Hell I bet I could get on the TF2 Server and at some point or another, someone will outright say "suck my dick" or anything else along those lines. Obviously the two (beasiality, for a lack of better words, and text-book vulgarity) aren't on the same level, but if you're going to argue that Matsi is saying offensive material in the presence of minors, then you should take into account all of the other filth that is said in and out of Servers. In the end, it's all the same and minors should not be subjected to any of it if that's your argument. Needless to say, if you don't want someone to go into detail about their personal life, don't ask. If you won't ask, they won't tell. Stop instigating with comments or posts that either have no relevance or should not have even been mentioned. All in all, any sort of "extreme ideologies" or life choices that aren't PG- 13 should not be shared openly on the Servers. We're here to play games and have fun, not to debate and discuss what gets each other off. This should not be counted as a huge "strike" against Matsi.
 
2. Sense of Entitlement
 
If the offensive material was the open flame, then this is the pile of dead branches and twigs that contributes the ignition. We've all seen it before, someone posts something in a way that leads others to believe they're cocky or arrogant. I won't say this doesn't happen, I've seen my fair share of Matsi giving attitude and sass in response to a thread or post. I do agree that it is completely unwarranted in most cases, just as it was when the exact same problem had occurred with Vector. With that said, we can all do without this sort of attitude and behaviour on the forums. I'll agree that a change needs to be made here. There's some truth in the saying "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all". It really isn't that difficult to realize not everyone has the same thought pattern or perceptions as yourself (in general), so give the person a break or give them the benefit of the doubt. Anything from the sentence "have a nice day :) " can be misconstrued given the circumstances, which leads me to my next point.
 
3. Personal Opinion
 
Everyone is entitled to this. I may not be a part of the TF2 Division, but we're all in the same clan. This isn't some civil war where CS:GO is better than TF2 or TF2 is better than ND. Everyone has the exact same say in something, regardless of their primary Division. Even if it is negative, why is there a need to call them out by saying something like "you have no idea what this is about, get out of here and stay out of here"? It's just as easy to tell them why what they said couldn't work or why it isn't a viable option. The relevance of this point is how Matsi is shut out from the CS:GO Division due to whatever the hell the reason is. We all know that Matsi is a whistle-blower (based on the Ban Requests he has submitted) which means that the guy is dedicated to following the rules properly, which I can see no problem. However, because of the attitude he can give, most of what he says may come off in an arrogant way, a sort of "I know all of the rules and what you're doing is wrong" which can appear as though he has this sense of entitlement as mentioned earlier. Mix that with people who have a bad history with him, and you have an explosive and volatile reaction. Case in point, Snackbar's reaction to Matsi's post in which Matsi mentions a pre-existing rule that conflicts with Snackbar's addition of a new rule. Depending on your history with Matsi, you may read what he said as offensive, sarcastic, or any other variant. For example, had he said "As long as it doesn't apply to the TF2 Division, it doesn't matter to me" it would have been interpreted in a different way. It is exactly as how you choose to perceive it. I'm not saying Snackbar is in the wrong, this is just the most recent example that displays how things can be interpreted in a way that can potentially escalate the situation (which it does).
 
 
After all is said and done, the following are the issues that need to be cleared up:
 
- Vulgarity: Matsi needs to realize that one's personal life or ideologies (especially in regards to any form of sexual content) should not be shared openly on Servers or in the presence of minors.
 
- Sense of entitlement: Matsi needs to better critique people in a way that doesn't display a "I'm better than you" attitude, or just refrain from doing it at all. This includes snide remarks that really aren't necessary both in and out of the forums.
 
That being said, just as with Vector, if you don't feel you can get along, then do us all a favour and don't provoke the guy. It literally does no good to anyone and just exacerbates things. If you don't agree with his personal choices in life, deal with it. It isn't your life, you have no influence on it, stop trying to control it. My verdict? Seeing as how this was never brought up before by means of actual confrontation of Higher-Ups sitting down with Matsi and discussing the situation, I say he gets a stern warning. As I mentioned in my earlier post, if (prior to this thread) there was no moment in which this issue was discussed and a warning wasn't given, I don't see how it's fair to condemn Matsi immediately. As to whether he is deserving of being a Staff Member (my only experience is with his Ban Requests) that is completely up to the TF2 Higher-Ups.
 
*Note: Just to clarify, I do not condone any of Matsi's actions or life choices. However, that does not mean he deserves to be treated any less than any one of you. We all have our own personal lifestyles and choices, and shouldn't be determining how someone else should live their life.

you discussed promo demo in teamspeak with the mods/admins and silence, without instead consulting myself and bleed in the forum PM made for it? oh and those mods/admins you discussed it with are the very exact same ones you promoted? that can't possibly be biased. like I was telling you the first time you posted it without telling me anything about who you wanted to promo, we do it through forum PM for a reason. so higher ups can talk about them, and you said "ok" yet you turn and discuss with the same people you promoted about who to promote.
 
not gonna fly with me. if you don't see any flaw in that then you're a blind man.
 
again as stated numerous times, I don't hold things personal with anyone nor am I really out to get anyone, I'm here to make sure things are fair and everyone gets their side of the stories heard.
 
So when you "discuss it with everyone" and blame it on my inactivity that I dont get included, I go ahead and call bullshit. I'm actually fairly active the last month or so, being typically the first in the server in the mornings pacific time, and staying populating it until I have to leave for work, which by the way is at odd hours being at a place like disney, and will go ahead and take my sleep at 3am after I get off a long shift instead of logging on to TS and seeing if you and your friends are discussing promo/demo. or changes you want to make.
 
I also told you that I don't think this rule about names makes sense, yes it should globally be that tags are at the front of your name. yes you should be wearing M for mod and A for admin
what you said I was doing wrong was my name has atleast for the last year or so been xG:D Lifter
D standing for division and you want me to put an M at the end, sorry but that's just how my names always been, as well that DM/DL has always been IMO a stupid thing to make different tags for. infact I have brought it up numerous times and have never been told by a CL that I need to change it.
 
To add, I could also tell you that the more recent members were allowed into xG with invalid vouches as well as not enough vouches, and that some the staff members you promoted find it OK to troll on the forums, as well as to say rather vulgar and sexual things, that if I didn't know this was the internet I would find them disgusting and gross to hear. But don't mind my opinion on that, I'm just a DM I shouldn't be included in any discussion going on. right? ;)

I'm gonna get shot for saying this.
 
I got nothing personal against @Matsi the worst I seen before the whole dog jacking thing was him having a fight with @Hachi on our servers.
 
I do think he should keep this shit away from our servers but as far as I know he never talked about jacking off dogs on anything besides Teamspeak/Forums.
 
The whole Blowjob Booze thing is Disgusting yes but worse things have been said but others on the Forums and Teamspeak as well.
 
This is very similar to the many times the TF2 division attempted to get Vector Permed, With the lack proof but the majority still wanting him gone.
 
And look Vector is still here and the most he got was a 6 month ban.
 
If that does not sway you and you still believe he should be permed then we should run around perming more people then just Matsi for shit like this.
 
On the subject of it being a Federal Crime Matsi is in fact correct it's not a Federal Crime in the USA.
 
Yes it's something he should not talk about in front of others however he only brought up the dog when Rabid asked can you fuck wolves.
 
It's for these reasons I feel he should not be Permed and he should not have his membership revoked.
 
The most i would approve of is a small ban if everyone really REALLY can't handle him.
 
I'm ready to be hanged now.

Y'all are turning this into a courtroom. Allegations of animal abuse? Wat. That's not the concern. We're aren't here to judge character or life choices, but whether or not removal of membership is necessary and if so why. The words illegal and legal don't matter here. Drugs are illegal but we aint banning anyone for talking about them. Try and keep it more on track, provide evidence (#notacourtroomhipocrite) and logical arguments, also please leave a vote in Snackbar's thread if you have not already.

I'm gonna get shot for saying this.
 
I got nothing personal against @Matsi the worst I seen before the whole dog jacking thing was him having a fight with @Hachi on our servers.
 
I do think he should keep this shit away from our servers but as far as I know he never talked about jacking off dogs on anything besides Teamspeak/Forums.
 
The whole Blowjob Booze thing is Disgusting yes but worse things have been said but others on the Forums and Teamspeak as well.
 
This is very similar to the many times the TF2 division attempted to get Vector Permed, With the lack proof but the majority still wanting him gone.
 
And look Vector is still here and the most he got was a 6 month ban.
 
If that does not sway you and you still believe he should be permed then we should run around perming more people then just Matsi for shit like this.
 
On the subject of it being a Federal Crime Matsi is in fact correct it's not a Federal Crime in the USA.
 
Yes it's something he should not talk about in front of others however he only brought up the dog when Rabid asked can you fuck wolves.
 
It's for these reasons I feel he should not be Permed and he should not have his membership revoked.
 
The most i would approve of is a small ban if everyone really REALLY can't handle him.
 
I'm ready to be hanged now.

I don't really see what's so member-demotion worthy about saying that you stroked a dog. If you think you can get removed from membership for saying something that seems disgusting then this clan would be a lot smaller. I mean for christs sake we had an ENTIRE fan fic thread full of disgusting crap and the most that happened was the thread getting closed. No one raised a finger about it because it was "funny" to you guys. It all depends on the perespective. After looking through your post the only evidence that really holds any weight to me would be the post on the steam exploit thread.
 
There's also a function called ignoring if you don't want to see his "absolutely disguting" posts and etc. It's not like he is specifically trying to talk about and show you furry crap.
Now you might say, "well we dont want all the kids seeing this gross crap". Then again, weren't you the one always preaching about how the internet is not a friendly place and if you cant handle insults, bad things on the internet etc to not get on it?
 
Also he has had that avatar for many months now, but im glad that you had the resolve to push through the sick turning in your stomach all this time to make this member protest.
 
 

For some reason you seem to think that because people don't like him, its a good reason to make him leave. Until I see evidence of this "General Instigation" and "General Abrasiveness" I won't really think much of your post.
BTW since when was "Anti Social activity" a good reason to get your membership removed? lol
 
 
 
I honestly think that this post is just Vector finally letting out his hatred towards Matsi and everybodies just like "yeah furries are kind of weird imo, +1".
I'm not saying that I like furry crap, but the stuff in this thread doesnt provide enough decent evidence to get him demoted.
Now im not a member, so this is just my opinion.

Offender is Permed
-Closed

yo dog, i get that you're 14 and being cool on the internet is a must these days, but you're trying to hard.