Opinion On Recent Events

[Hidingmaster 19]

Alright. All this has gone way further than it ever should have. If you don't know what, its two things:

 

1) Rabid being permanently banned.

 

2) The "toxicity reform", especially the point where Vector got permanently banned.

 

I'd like to put a little opinion out there regarding the issue, hopefully to clear up confusion from those not directly involved, and to shed a little light on to the problems I see.

 

Let me start with the fact that this whole situation should have never been allowed to continue this far. What happened originally is that someone started a thread with Nom and Silence regarding some members they though were not conducive to a friendly environment. Eventually all CLs and other staff members were added to the conversation; a total that now stands at 12 people.

 

A discussion commenced about the list, stating who we though should and shouldn't be on it. To makes things clear, I clearly defended Asock and said I didn't think he would be a problem anymore. I actually went on to repeat that he wasn't a problem numerous times. (BTW, this is for those that think I was biased when banning him permanently; I honestly was defending him from being banned.) It was mostly a dialogue between me and some Tf2 staff, some other CLs (but not all) very briefly discussed the list that was posted.

 

First issue I have is that the thread was posted without any planning behind it. We were discussing the list, I got offline, then just hours later it was posted. There was no punishments planned, nothing was figured out except that we had a tier of people. This was by far the biggest mistake in my opinion; anyone remember what happened when Darkwolf was told he was getting banned (Hint: abuse.). Why we would post a thread saying numerous people were in trouble, and not take immediate action is beyond me.

 

Fine. What happened happened. So we start talking punishments. We essentially come to a conclusion that tier 1 will be permed from everything. It wasn't until sunday that we finally got around to figuring out bans and actually handling them out. It was stated that vector and iggy were getting permed, yet not one person said anything about it.

 

So, then another issue arises. Asock and warrior start pushing the limits on the forums. I look into it a little, but just brush it off.. its Asock, I mean you gotta be a little more understanding that its just his personality. I say in the convo that its a perm or nothing for Asock, because I have warned him MANY MANY times. So, someone posts Asocks comments in shoutbox basically saying his goodbye to xG. He knows he crossed the line, so I went ahead with the perm. (BTW, nobody responds regarding the issue of Asock for 12 hours which is why I went ahead and actually did something). Within minutes of me stating that he was permed.. of course everyone gets an opinion. Another bunch of useless arguing gets nowhere regarding Asock, so we return to Vector.

 

Alright, so second thing that really annoys me.

 

We now have

a) Some CL's voicing their opinion days later, and how it was uncalled for that we banned Vector. (Seriously? We went over this, and not one of you guys had an issue).

 

b) We have TF2 staff members threatening us by saying they are leaving, bob the plumber is gonna leave, etc if Vector gets unbanned. Even one of them saying they found a replacement for their Staff position if Vector gets unbanned. (Threatening us? Seriously? Can we just maturely discuss the issue?)

 

 

So if you haven't caught on yet, or maybe i'm just ranting and terrible at explaining what I'm getting pissed about its the following:

 

People aren't voicing their opinion until after a decision is made. Here's where they say I wasn't on to see the convo; well, it went on for more than 24 hours. Had the thread not been rushed out like a news story then we would of had time to properly talk about things.

 

Stop threatening CLs that people are leaving. We get it. It won't influence our decision. Why? Because that would be unfair, we need to find the just punishments not what you all personally want.

 

Cut the crap. EVERYONE. Good lord, I have CLs getting angry, div leaders/managers getting angry, people still insulting each other and not letting them have opinions, what the hell guys.

 

"1. The CL's want to keep an old friend just because he has been here awhile." - I DON'T CARE IF ITS MY BEST FRIEND FROM HIGH SCHOOL. Maybe everyone else is biased but i dont give two poops who I am ever banning/defending, I try to be fair. So don't group everyone in the same boat.

 

And regarding the evidence rule. Could we go ahead and allow some common sense to be substituted for evidence in rare circumstances. I don't go around recording every moment of every conversation someone has, its not fair or right to do that. But common sense tells me who has acted poorly for a long time.

 

 

Now, to end it im going to publically state my personal opinions on both Asock and Vector's bans.

 

 

ASock: Yes I defended him. Yes I then banned him. I've personally dealt with him numerous times in the past, actually permed him once before. Some how it was lifted, without any discussion as far as I was concerned. Why was he permed that first time? He was 100% harassing and bullying me. It was like 2am and nobody was on, he mad me feel like shit; so I took actions into my own hands and permed him. Pretty appropriate for what he was saying. But fine, they unbanned him, we talked and I let him know he had no more room for error. I actually began to respect him for turning around and being much more community oriented. But, he knew he was on his last warning and he broke rules. Whether or not he instigated it or not, it was retaliated and he knew better.

 

Vector: Again, we discussed it, issued bans and it was fine for a little bit. But then some CLs decided now it was a good time to have an opinion. No we have to deal with the consequences of being unprepared. I think he should stay banned, and maybe, just maybe have a chance to be unbanned in the distant future. I won't be for unbanning him, I see no reason to change my point of view.

 

Sorry about novel length post, but sometimes you gotta show everyone what the hell is going on for things to get fixed. And because someone will take this post as rude or disrespectful, thats not the intention. I enjoy everyone in this clan, but at this moment some of my opinions highly differ and the lack of communication between everyone has create numerous problems that I highlighted.

 

And i guess since I am criticizing a lot of things, if you have criticism for me feel free to leave it; I actually don't mind listening to the community for ways I can help be better/make better choices. But be prepared to have a rebuttal twice as long.

[The_Unlit_Torch 33]

So, if I understood it right:

You banned ASock, someone unbanned him, and he's not banned anymore.

ASock is now on his last warning and any further disrespect an harrassment will be tolerated from him.

 

Vector is banned, and he will not be unbanned in your opinion.

 

Did I understand this correctly?

[Goblins 580]

In all honesty, regarding people leaving the TF2 divison due to Vector coming back is completely stupid. I like xG, and have seen stupid stuff before, but this sets a new standard.

[Rabid 173]

Well, as someone who is in open fire at the moment for past decisions. I'd first like to say.

 

I really don't see how any one could have negative criticism for you, even my self how could I just not respect you now. You have done nothing but handle your problems with the powers given to you the way you always have, Fair, and unbiased. You are extremely lenient, but know exactly when to be strict.

 

I don't mean to come off as "appreciative" either, what you did for me giving me another chance(chance after chance after chance), and openly admitting you stuck out for me after what I've said/done to you, That doesn't even deserve a thanks, that just deserves respect.

I do however have to apologize for letting you stand up for me even knowing you did not have to, and then f*cking it up... Really do feel sh*tty about that.

[Tsuchikure 38]

This was by far the biggest mistake in my opinion; anyone remember what happened when Darkwolf was told he was getting banned (Hint: abuse.). Why we would post a thread saying numerous people were in trouble, and not take immediate action is beyond me.

THANK YOU! FINALLY!

Constantly roaming around and saying shit like "you're permed and the decision isn't changing" over and over followed by afking to take a shower and go to bed without giving out said punishments isn't how this works. It's actually stupid. Annoyed the living shit out of me that people would do this without any reason.

[Chrono 372]

proof>"common sense" is just a simpler way to make all bans justified, IMO and really if he is as bad as they make him out to be, if they had joined the server saw him talking crap, and then just start recording a demo then. not necessarily record every second of him, just when they think he is gonna take a turn for the worse. if he really honestly truly is that bad on servers, they would have plenty of evidence in ~15 minutes.

 

edit: also, you could just ban him in server on the spot at the time of him being bad it's still very nice to have the evidence to back up your ban, you know, incase of a protest.

[Hidingmaster 19]

proof>"common sense" is just a simpler way to make all bans justified, IMO and really if he is as bad as they make him out to be, if they had joined the server saw him talking crap, and then just start recording a demo then. not necessarily record every second of him, just when they think he is gonna take a turn for the worse. if he really honestly truly is that bad on servers, they would have plenty of evidence in ~15 minutes.

 

edit: also, you could just ban him in server on the spot at the time of him being bad it's still very nice to have the evidence to back up your ban, you know, incase of a protest.

 

Don't get me wrong, I agree with the idea of having evidence but I think that there are certain circumstances where evidence isn't necessary.

[Tsuchikure 38]

Don't get me wrong, I agree with the idea of having evidence but I think that there are certain circumstances where evidence isn't necessary.

Which is what was said. If he's as bad as they make him out to be (Never wanting to join the servers again, telling them to kill themselves) then i don't see the problem they are having simply catching him doing something wrong and warning/banning him on the spot.

I wouldn't say this is his "last chance" seeing as this ban was pretty unjust in the first place, which is why i included warning.

This is starting to sound more and more like a "I do not enjoy simply being in his presence. it makes me want to leave xG" which doesn't help much at all.

[xGShadowSpy 108]

My opinion on recent events? xG turned into one big toilet. One person took a shit in that toilet, and they didn't flush. Not too bad at that point. But then, another person goes and takes a shit. And another. And another. Many many more shits were taken. All the meanwhile, they hired a team of plumbers, but when they tried to help it, the shit started spraying all over the place, and people still kept taking shits. We need to work on a plan to find which shits to take out, and which ones to keep in and flush. The problem is, when you take the shit out, you put it on the floor, but there's who people don't want to step on the shit, so they threaten to leave the room. With the shit you flush down, there's people that say that the shit hasn't done anything, so there's no reason that shit should be flushed if the other shit was taken out.

 

Sorry for all the censorship from this, but you get the idea.

[Scootaloo 124]

I made my feelings pretty well known in our conversation, but I guess I can give the tl:dr version here.

 

The Vector debacle was a big blended bowl of bowel movements. I think everyone had heated passions and may have hastily said things that weren't actually truthful or serious. Do I think there would be a mass exodus of leaving members if the CLs reversed on a decision? Possibly. But I know that for myself at least, and possibly a few of the other higher ranking staff members, those statements were made out of passion and frustration and not very well thought out.

 

I think the main frustration was also the miscommunication and the thought that such a decision could easily be overturned, especially after such a long amount of time spent deliberating.

 

That being said, after a good amount of time away from the forums to clear my head and give things a good thorough thought, I think the proposed alternative is a good solution to everyone involved. It was handled in a messy way, but the conclusion we ultimately came to was a good one.

[IAmLegend 3]

Just don't be an asshole and boom! All the toxicity problem's will disappear..... or just don't get butthurt.

[The_Unlit_Torch 33]

Just don't be an butthole and boom! All the toxicity problem's will disappear..... or just don't get butthurt.

That's easier said than done.

[Hidingmaster 19]

So just wondering, why has Iggy not been discussed in the slightest about getting his bans changed as well? Certain people fought feverishly for vector, but somehow forgot the idea of fair punishments. Iggy was way less of an issue than vector was, yet he gets stuck with a worse punishment because of bias or what?

 

[uSERGROUP=23]@Community Leader[/uSERGROUP] @Moosty @metalslug53 @Dethman @kbraszzz @Kyoko @Ohstopyou @Rejects @Nomulous @Rhododendron

[Dethman 191]

So just wondering, why has Iggy not been discussed in the slightest about getting his bans changed as well? Certain people fought feverishly for vector, but somehow forgot the idea of fair punishments. Iggy was way less of an issue than vector was, yet he gets stuck with a worse punishment because of bias or what?

 

[uSERGROUP=23]@Community Leader[/uSERGROUP] @Moosty @metalslug53 @Dethman @kbraszzz @Kyoko @Ohstopyou @Rejects @Nomulous @Rhododendron

I mentioned that but no one answered. Anyways he mights as well get the same punishment if you are doing so for vector.

[Hidingmaster 19]

I mentioned that but no one answered. Anyways he mights as well get the same punishment if you are doing so for vector.

 

Yeah, I saw this wayyy back in the convo. But it was ignored and never brought up again.