Vector - Team Fortress 2

[DrLee 15]

I'm unaware of most TF2 relations of the late, but I do not recall much from Vector until he joined TF2. I'd be interested in hearing if Vector had any serious problems with us during his CS:S days.

[Goblin 154]

Trying to make a serious thread and tf2 kids, immaturity shows up. Good to know as a MODERATOR who was SUPPOSED to be MORE MATURE then ME, represents xg so well.

 

Fair enough, but I'm not sure complaining about and mocking the tf2 division every single day is going to make us +1 you.

[Scootaloo 124]

I don't know what xG would be like if Vector was never here. Not gonna lie.

 

When I first joined, Vector was one of the main dudes I went to with questions and concerns. He was one of the biggest supporters of me initially getting Mod and eventually Admin that I can recollect. He stood up for me when I was going through the ranks and actually gave a shit about me. I consider Vector a friend.

 

I've never had any issues with Vector on a personal level. There are very few times we have ever actually disagreed about anything, and when we did disagree about something, we were quick to bump heads and resolve our issues, and get right back to work on whatever we were working on.

 

Vector was always one to handle things a bit more brash than others, but he never slacked in his duties and always made sure rules were being enforced. It wasn't until I became a DM that I even really ever had any sway over what Vector was doing in our clan, and when it happened, I was bombarded by an overwhelming rush of complaints about how he handled things. Perhaps it was just my new responsibilities that meant I'd eventually have to deal with the issue, or maybe it just came with the job, but the inevitable fallout of Vector being banned happened, and I am still very mixed on that decision.

 

But here we are now. Vector is here, protesting the ban, showing us all that he still very much cares about this clan. The very clan that cast him out, told him that he was unwanted, that he was a jerk and a butt...he still cares about this clan. He still wants to be apart of this community, even after everything that has happened.

 

I can't say I'd feel very much like sticking around a clan that did that to me, even if I was or was not in the wrong. The moment something like that happened, I would have been out of that clan in a heartbeat and never turned back. It takes a hell of a lot of drive to stick around a place like that, especially if a majority of the members made it perfectly clear that you were not welcome.

 

Well, I say "Fuck it" to all of that nonsense and will give my +1 to the unban. I'm not advocating a reinstatement of admin privileges or an immediate addition to the moderation team or anything, but if Vector can humble himself enough to say "I fucked up and want to make amends." and still show that he actually gives a damn about our community, I say we give him the benefit of the doubt and welcome him back.

 

I can't speak for everyone, and I know that a lot of those who have already posted in this thread have made it evidently clear that you dislike Vector, but me....I'm a forgive and forget kind of guy. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me, you know?

 

Just my two cents.

 

tl:dr I +1 the unban.

[Ohstopyou 42]

Sorry guys. I consulted with Nom on the matter and we spoke with Rhodo. The CLs went back on their decision and I have yet to see an improvement on behavior on the forums from him, so he won't be unbanned. I don't care if he knows the rules or if he even helped to make some of them. That doesn't exempt him from them or allow for behavior like this.

 

You can say I have a grudge, or that I'm "butthurt" or whatever you want. I honestly don't care and wasn't thinking about this until Nom talked about shaping up the Tf2 division and making it more appetizing and less stressful for new and current people. One of the main reasons people told me they avoided the servers like the plague were because of specific people that were playing on them. Trust me, Vector isn't the only one and some more may be leaving as well, that is if they try to cause more problems than they already have.

 

Suggestion: Maybe he should consider not tearing everyone a new one whenever they disagree with him or get a rule wrong. Not everyone is intentionally trying to cause problems and when you go overboard and humiliate them in front of everyone (instead of being adaptive to each situation), it kind of leaves a mark on them and dissuades them from joining the servers again (i.e. I've noticed this with every young kid ever on our servers).

 

Maybe talk to me in a few months if you have improved your behavior. Try to actually act civil like the adult you are, and it might actually happen!

 

Have a good night everyone!

 

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Also no, a mona pizza will not get you out of this. The highest authority has set the ban. Maybe this time we can actually fix the root of the problem, rather than cover it up or make it into a joke.

 

Edit: And yes, I will actually consider unbanning you if you do change your attitude around. Not saying you have to like everyone, but don't be flat out horrible to everyone.

[Vector 138]

Maybe he should consider not tearing everyone a new one whenever they disagree with him or get a rule wrong. Not everyone is intentionally trying to cause problems and when you go overboard and humiliate them in front of everyone (instead of being adaptive to each situation), it kind of leaves a mark on them and dissuades them from joining the servers again (i.e. I've noticed this with every young kid ever on our servers).

uh? when was the last time i chewed someone out for not knowing the rules? if you're talking about the suicide thread, i was polite to people and where have i been rude for no sharing the same opinion as me lately? This isn't fair, the fact there are people who are supporting my unban from higher ups (with some others disagree). You didn't see an improvement on the suicide thread? you didn't see the politeness of the thread i made when kart YOUR MODERATOR cried to other members to defend my self? No, you are infact holding a grudge and only wish to see the negatives of a person's personality which is a problem with xG. I haven't even done anything wrong in past months. Absolute embarrassment.

[Ohstopyou 42]

uh? when was the last time i chewed someone out for not knowing the rules? if you're talking about the sedoku thread, i was polite to people and where have i been rude for no sharing the same opinion as me lately? This isn't fair, the fact there are people who are supporting my unban from higher ups (with some others disagree). You didn't see an improvement on the sedoku thread? you didn't see the politeness of the thread i made when kart YOUR MODERATOR cried to other members to defend my self? No, you are infact holding a grudge and only wish to see the negatives of a person's personality which is a problem with xG. I haven't even done anything wrong in past months. Absolute embarrassment.

I literally don't have the time or the data to go through all the malicious posting to people from you.

 

Awesome that people who are higher ups support your unban; they are all not from the relevant division. Also, the people that were messing with the ban before had no relevant time played or experience (current experience) with our TF2 player base.

 

If you wish to be unbanned from the other divisions, I'm sure we can find a way to unban you from CS:S, CS:GO, GMOD, etc.

 

Nope. I haven't been reading any of your posts because I don't feel the need to waste my time reading bitchy, moaning posts

 

I, in fact, am not holding a grudge as your previous ban was fine enough for my grievances. You can make up all the excuses you desire, but I am tired of fighting with you. I cannot overlook the complaints from people that arise. When people tell me they have to avoid the servers because of specific people; it makes me sick to hear about it.

 

Maybe if you actually fess up, and stop trying to play favorites with people so you can act however you want, you wouldn't be in this mess. I'm tired talking about it. Until I see some actual improvement, rather than trying to get away from punishment or trying to wait it out, your ban will not be removed.

 

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You can bitch at me all day and call it "racism", holding a grudge, prejudice, anti-semitism, or any other excuse you can think of. I'm trying to be polite and come to a compromise here. If you actually try and own up to your mistakes, and turn a new page, everything can be water under the bridge. Not now, but in the future. Wait a couple months.

 

You can actually see I'm trying to resolve this once and for all so that we will never (hopefully) have to come back to this again. Again, like I said, you don't have to like everyone, but don't be horrible to everyone.

[Vector 138]

Nope. I haven't been reading any of your posts because I don't feel the need to waste my time reading bitchy, moaning posts

are you serious? this right here is actually offensive. If you don't read my posts how can you tell if i have changed or not? And to assume all of my posts are bitchy and moaning is even more immature. I actually made a thread about a rule you guys had that i didn't agree with, and the fact you admit that you didn't even read it shows that you aren't taking everyone's opinion into account.

 

What do you even mean when you say

he CLs went back on their decision

 

Are you saying you talked to the CLs yourself and they thought that the ban was fine? That the CLs had a voice in this?

[Vector 138]

And when i mean CLs i mean, penguin diabeetus, lee too

[Hidingmaster 19]

I literally don't have the time or the data to go through all the malicious posting to people from you.

 

Awesome that people who are higher ups support your unban; they are all not from the relevant division. Also, the people that were messing with the ban before had no relevant time played or experience (current experience) with our TF2 player base.

 

If you wish to be unbanned from the other divisions, I'm sure we can find a way to unban you from CS:S, CS:GO, GMOD, etc.

 

Nope. I haven't been reading any of your posts because I don't feel the need to waste my time reading bitchy, moaning posts

 

I, in fact, am not holding a grudge as your previous ban was fine enough for my grievances. You can make up all the excuses you desire, but I am tired of fighting with you. I cannot overlook the complaints from people that arise. When people tell me they have to avoid the servers because of specific people; it makes me sick to hear about it.

 

Maybe if you actually fess up, and stop trying to play favorites with people so you can act however you want, you wouldn't be in this mess. I'm tired talking about it. Until I see some actual improvement, rather than trying to get away from punishment or trying to wait it out, your ban will not be removed.

 

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You can bitch at me all day and call it "racism", holding a grudge, prejudice, anti-semitism, or any other excuse you can think of. I'm trying to be polite and come to a compromise here. If you actually try and own up to your mistakes, and turn a new page, everything can be water under the bridge. Not now, but in the future. Wait a couple months.

 

You can actually see I'm trying to resolve this once and for all so that we will never (hopefully) have to come back to this again. Again, like I said, you don't have to like everyone, but don't be horrible to everyone.

 

 

 

Yes Vector, as a CL I am just making straight up lies now. Come on now, no need to attack me for an opinion. Just as Ohstopyou stated, I am also fine with working with you if you actually show that you are changing. We are hardly here to be biased against you, I honestly don't care if you are banned or not as it has little effect on me. What I am concerned about is that you want this thread to be taken seriously, but I'm getting the notion that you still expect to get into arguments with others and have not changed. Why would we remove a ban for something when we aren't confident the issue has been resolved?

[Hidingmaster 19]

are you serious? this right here is actually offensive. If you don't read my posts how can you tell if i have changed or not? And to buttume all of my posts are bitchy and moaning is even more immature. I actually made a thread about a rule you guys had that i didn't agree with, and the fact you admit that you didn't even read it shows that you aren't taking everyone's opinion into account.

 

What do you even mean when you say

 

 

Are you saying you talked to the CLs yourself and they thought that the ban was fine? That the CLs had a voice in this?

 

Trying to clear this up, both for you and me. What I'm assuming is that he is referring going back against the permanent ban, saying that the shorter ban was fine (iirc thats what happened). So if thats what he is referring to, then yes we did have a say.

[Tsuchikure 38]

I'm unaware of most TF2 relations of the late, but I do not recall much from Vector until he joined TF2. I'd be interested in hearing if Vector had any serious problems with us during his CS:S days.

That's because we didn't take it nearly as seriously as the TF2 div are. He was hardly different, and because we all took it as jokes, he acted more jokingly to fit with it. It's sort of a 10x better version of rabid, except it's actually meant

 

It also seems that every time that vector tries to bring up points in a discussion, it is immediately taken as a 'fight' and he is just straight up labelled as what he apparently is now

 

Nope. I haven't been reading any of your posts because I don't feel the need to waste my time reading bitchy, moaning posts

kek

[Vector 138]

It's sort of a 10x better version of rabid

awe <3 :)

[Moosty 148]

Going to post what I said in the tf2 higher up convo here. It's relevant and this way the CLs can see it.

 

 

I've seen improvement. He's not as bad as he was before on the forums. Vector isn't a nice guy, but the tone is different now. He's a bit combative but no personal attacks, and no starting shit on purpose (that ban protest was going downhill regardless, he could've changed to an amish guy that gave all his tf2 shit out for free and that thread would have gone the same way. All of us know that). He isn't a kissass or one for apologies, but he's honest and direct. He got the complaints about the personal attacks and being rude to individuals, but I'm not seeing it on forums. He has been passionate about disagreeing with rules and our decisions, but all of that is fair game for all members to comment on. I know alot of people stopped coming because of him, but nothing he has done on our servers is recent. If the discussion is about whether or not he has changed, then nothing he did on our servers is relevant to that discussion. When I first joined I was friends with Vector, then he took a turn for the worse and playing on the same server wasn't an enjoyable experience anymore. The Vector I'm seeing on the forums reminds me of the old Vector. He'll never be a suck up like other people. He won't beg. Forbidding him from mona pizza is pointless because he isn't the type to do that anyway. But what I'm seeing from him is improvement. He was banned because he stopped attacking rule breakers in a direct and effective way and turned into a shit starter that wasn't fun to be around. The way he talks and interacts isn't always the most amiable, and he's argumentative, but I'm seeing the arguments shift back to a productive tone. I understand if you haven't seen it, or disagree, I'm just asking for you to look deeper and give him a chance, because I have seen improvement.

[diabeetus 20]

Here's how I see it.

 

Vector's ban (as agreed to by Silence when there was still a "leader" rank) was reduced to a 6-month server ban, of which about ~2.5-3 months of which has gone by. If anyone thinks that this isn't the case, here is a screenshot proving my point. Unless Silence went back on his decision without notifying us while he was still leader or a secret discussion (of which every other CL is totally unaware of) was had after he became a Community Leader (along with Nomulous), this 6-month server ban still stands. If this was a permanent ban, I would absolutely +1 this and support either an immediate unban or an unban within the near future (the next 1-2 months or so). However, since his server ban is temporary (I believe it's set to expire in November) I feel that Vector should serve out the remainder of his ban. Even though this thread is only a few hours old, we've already begun to butt heads between absolute solutions for this situation. Despite this, I do think that we can come to a compromise. I would definitely be in favor of reducing Vector's server ban to one month. He still has to ride out a little bit more of a punishment, but ultimately Vector will get to play on the servers he says he's still dedicated to improving. I agree with those who have recognized Vector's improvement over the past few months. From what I've seen, he reminds me much more of the Vector I knew and worked with during my time as a mod/admin in CS:S, opposed to the overly argumentative and combative behavior he showed around the time of his ban. I feel that this improvement is enough to warrant a reduction in his ban. The only real way to prove if Vector has definitively improved is to see how he behaves over a longer period of time on our servers. Keep in mind that just because he's unbanned doesn't mean that he's immune to further punishment. If sufficient evidence is brought forth proving to the community that he is still an overwhelmingly negative force on our community and servers, a new ban (which almost certainly) will be a perm will be enacted. If Vector really is as toxic as some people say he is, this evidence shouldn't be too difficult to collect. However, keep in mind that this evidence has to have some substance to it. I don't want just a list of complaints from people butthurt that he rustled their jimmies after telling them about rules they broke, unless he was unnecessarily cruel when doing so.

 

All in all, I think that Vector's ban should be reduced to a month, due to recent improvement in his behavior on Teamspeak and the forums. However, if the community (not just one DL) comes to a different conclusion, I'd be fine with it.

[kbraszzz 31]

Why can't we all just have a nice calm and collected ban protest?

 

Is that so much to ask?