Hidingmaster

blame game? we are just discussing the problems that arriving in xG. That's what you do, you realize what's going on and see how you can fix it. If you think that's trivial then go ahead and think that. However, the fact diabeetus told me, a CL who is apart of these discussions that there are people gunning me for perms of petty reasons, then yes i damn well see a problem in it. Also i never once said that the CLs are bias? That was dethman who said that the CLs were cherry picking and that diabeetus was a big part of that which is why he wanted him demoted. he also fingered both you and dethman who thought the baby pictured warrented a perm.

I'm assuming you meant figured in the last sentence. I'm just saying don't start believing what people tell you, this whole situation is full of lies and assumptions.

Don't know why the blame game is happening here, especially from you Vector. First off, there was not any discussion where people were going to get banned (that I was apart of recently). I've seen some things that could lead to bans, but I haven't gone further with it yet. Stop assuming who is out to get you. Y'all think CLs are biased? You're damn wrong. I ain't out to get anybody and stop dragging me into this bullshit. If you really still think I'm biased, I'd love to see evidence of it.

Haven't heard anyone talk about you. So you are correct in that people are talking behind others back.

Of our 23 active servers (not counting FoF, isn't official yet), 14 are from tf2, 7 from Nuclear Dawn, 1 from CS:S (active is a strong term), 1 from CS:GO.

 

The leadership structure doesn't match this whatsoever.

 

So, two burning questions off the bat.

 

Why the hell isn't @Stickz a CL or some kind of way higher up? Guy does his job better than anyone else here, any div.

 

Why the hell isn't @kbraszzz a CL? People complain that it's hard to handle tf2 drama, this guy is somehow immune from all of it. Plus he's the most trustworthy tf2 member by anyone's standards.

 

If they don't want to that's fine, but have they even been offered the position?

 

Secondly, I realize that CS:S JB was amazing, and started xG. But times have changed. This isn't a counter strike clan anymore. Why are all the higher ups from the smallest division? It honestly makes zero sense.

 

Most of you know I'm a Disability Rights policy activist (who am I kidding you all think I'm a lazy stoner), in the disability community we have a phrase that applies here just as well as it does in society, "Nothing about us, without us". This means that if discussions are taking place that affect disabled people, then Disabled people need to have a seat at the table. The policy that comes out when the people that are effected by the policy had a hand in making it, is immeasurably more affective at helping the people it aims to help, because they advocate from personal experience.

 

Tf2 needs to be more well represented in the higher ups of the clan. We make the lion's share of the revenue, we have the most members, and most of the issues with tf2 members could have been resolved much better if the people calling the shots actually knew the tf2 division and the members.

 

Alot of people are saying tf2 doesn't have enough mature members. Haven't even seen those people checking out the servers or meeting members. Yeah there is a whole lot of immaturity in tf2. I'm sure though, that if I was on the forums during css jb's peak, I'd have a similar reaction to what they were like on forums. When there are more people, there's more problems. I'm sure that's a concept you guys understand well. Dismissing tf2 as immature when you aren't even making an effort to know the div or the members, is equally immature.

 

That's about it for this post I already wrote an essay. Lazy stoner out.

Couple things I want to clear up with you.

1) Co-Leader/Community leaders are in power to help one division or another. We deal with clan issues. The divison leader are just that, they lead the division. CLs don't make rules or decisions regarding divisions unless is becomes an issue large enough to affect everyone. People like Stickz are extremely good at what they do because they have complete power and control of their divison. Moving them up draws them away from their perspective divisions. You can argue that they can handle it, and they may very well be able to, but why pull someone away from a spot where they can do the most good?

2) In my opinion to be a good, and effective CL (using this interchangeably for Co leader or community leader) you don't need to be "in" a division. 99% of the things I do for the clan don't involve issues directly related to TF2 or another div; it's affects XenoGamers. Yeah, DLs can handle issues as well, but again why would you use people with a lot of server talent to do the grunt work?

You want to know what I do for this clan?

-Answer random questions from DMs/DLS

-Ban people from the forum/moderate posts

-Give powers to people on sourcebans

-Make sure people don't get into fights on the forum

Notice how we don't really do anything related to a div? Don't think of us as clan leaders, but more like an information desk.

I'm not saying DLs shouldn't or can't get a CL spot, but understand it's not what you think it is. I would love to have stick or kb to help us out, but I objected to their promotion into the position because I don't think having them work on random shit is worth it.

And if you don't think TF2 is represented, obviously its a partial lack of communication. Reach out to CLs with issues.

Also, can y'all just drop the TF2 is immature stuff? They have plenty of members that show maturity. Jesus.

Response to comments on your post: You can't say we "talked about it". It was what... 2 posts? There was not 1 single discussion outside that thread about a new CL.

OK, the system is not what is inefficient, it is the people in power. Most clearly did not know there role that much and they take forever to respond to stuff or look into stuff. The system just needs to be reworked and made clearer and have 5 people who are unbiased, represent the active divisions, and is respected by the members. Basically wipe the cls as they are with Silence going back to leader, nom goes back to co. Maybe need another co-leader or 2. Then have 5 CLs handpicked by silence to carry out the duties which are clearly given to them. Give them the respective powers needed to moderate teamspeak and forums fully. Hiding is really my only pick for the second or third co-leader or if no co-leaders then to stay CL.

Not sure why we would let silence choose them, saying he doesn't deal with them on a daily business. It should be left for the members to decide.

I think community leaders should stay to be perfectly honest but the system needs a complete refresh. Seems to me currently they have the same powers as DLs and DMs on forums and teamspeak. They need clear guidlines on how to do there job and what they are required to do. That bold part is because it seems CL's do not know there specific role, they are basically running around with there heads chopped off. I suggested a system just like the us government but no one really answered but i will put it in here just so people know what i was thinking.

 

For starters my idea was have the leader (silence obviously) makes 90% of clan decisions and all decisions made by him are final unless objected by co-leaders and/or majority of community and division leader.

 

Co-Leader (2 of them) : Makes most of the general rules for the clan that must be agreed upon by both of them. They represent silence when he is not present and make the final decision (if silence does not respond) but that decision must have been agreed upon by both co-leaders.

 

Community Leader (5 of them) : Makes decisions under member protest whether the reported user deserves a kick from the clan or not. All of there decisions must have majority vote which is 3/5. They should be given teamspeak powers that they can only have (along with leaders) like ability to delete, edit, create, and give positions. This is so we can have multiple people we can ask in case teamspeak channel conflicts arise and can be resolved by more then 2 people. The community leaders can claim division specific rules and community rules either Unneeded, too harsh, conflicting, etc. They are an appeals court and if someone feels there ban was unjustified after the dms and dls of the respective division already made a decision. They can go to cls for a second look and even rule out a rule. This way CL's have a clear role and keep the community clean. How about also making use of the steam group and have final say in promo demos before they post it.

 

All three of these should require that they are active in at least the forum active communities and maybe nuclear dawn and g-mod. If they dont play with the community and understand the concerns of all.

 

DLs and below can stay the same.

 

We need like a wipe of the community leadership to be honest, the only ones i see being unbiased about everything are silence, nom, and hiding.

My concern is that you essentially are making community leaders just the leaders of the DLs. People need to put trust in DLs to make decisions that are relevant to their division with nobody else stepping over them. 2 Co leaders would have no problem doing promo demo + taking care of clan concerns. If DLs are allowed to... lead their division... there really isn't much more to do other than have someone to help make decisions regarding tough situations and promo demo.

Alright so this was something brought up a handful of times already, with not a lot being done about it.

Welcome to the wacky world of discussion of... Leadership. Follow me on a journey through time and space, where we will first stop off at the solution, and then follow it up with the reasons that I deem a change necessary.

Solution

The current setup of xG leadership is as follows:

Community Leaders: Silence, Nomulous, Hidingmaster (me), Dr. Lee, Diabeetus

Division Leaders: Tf2, CS:GO, Minecraft...

Division Managers: You know.

Administrators: You know.

Moderators: Yeah, you know.

Members: Love you plebs.

It works, for the most part, but there are some very easy changes that can really help make the community a lot more easier to.. lets say.. navigate. Essentially go back to what we had before:

Leader: Mr. Rhodosilencdendron

Co Leaders: 2 trusted members of xG

DL

DM

Administrator

Mods

Members

The nomulous, who is like a leader, but more for the technical side of things.

What does this accomplish/help improve on?

Well, I want you first to question (those who aren't CLs) who you would turn to when you had a question that required an authoritative figure to answer. Right now I bet a lot of you would turn to a variety of people, from DL's to a CL (but not all im sure), to even a DM. There is not one person people can turn to to get an answer that is definitive, its a lot of "I think this is the right answer".

With having 2 trusted Co-leaders, it becomes much clearer who people can ask for answers that need a solid and definitive answer. DLs and DMs alike would be able to turn to one person to get an answer, not an entire committee. Co Leaders would be of equal power, almost acting independently. If CoLeader gives an answer to a question, than the community can trust that is what will be followed. I know people will think that gives them too much power, but remember a few things. It worked very well in the past, the second Coleader can be brought into the discussion and have a joint decision, and this is not for the MOST important topics, but those that can/need to be solved in a timely manner. Silence of course will retain complete veto and his word is final in 99% of the cases.

So why?

1) People need someone they can turn to that they can trust, that will answer quickly, and that they know are giving an answer that will not inflict punishment against the person asking.

2) The current setup leads to a lot of issues going unresolved, or at least going unresolved for a unacceptable amount of time.

3) Having 4 CLs leads to way too much confusion. People are getting unbanned who shouldnt, bans changed when they shouldn't be.

4) There is absolutely no discussion between community leaders. When first founded by Forest, community leaders were meant to work together. As a group we came up with rules to help govern how decisions would be made. Every CL would be included, a 3/5ths vote required for the most important issues, and promo demo would be approved by all CLs before being published. This is where the issue lies. Observe the following:

April 26th:

July 23rd:

July 30th:

August 9th (This monday):

The first three were located in threads that both Dr. Lee and Diabeetus viewed, the last picture is of a conversation sent to both of them with no response as of yet.

Hopefully y'all now understand why it takes so long for answers to come from Community Leaders, why there are conflicting responses, and why things never get wrapped up. I'm not here to berate anyone, as I have been negligent in answers occasionally, but when you have a person in leadership who gets ignored by the others you can't expect a system to work efficiently; thus I propose a change to a smaller group where the Co-Leaders have more power to help solve issues.

[uSERGROUP=23]@Community Leader[/uSERGROUP] [uSERGROUP=5]@Division Leader[/uSERGROUP] [uSERGROUP=29]@Division Manager[/uSERGROUP]

I gotta say if your gonna ban somebody for aimbotting get atleast a 2 or 3 mins+ demo of it. From what i've seen if you thought that was hacks, you shouldnt be a higher up with powers to ban for hacking thats clearly not hacking. Just saying @Hidingmaster This is a DL who shouldnt be such you CL's should review him and make sure you want somebdy like this as a higher up. He just kept trying to add reasons to why he should stay permed instead of why he was permed.

I think he does a great job as a DL. But I do agree that he should have obtained a longer demo, plus agreement from one or two other mods/admins about aimbot before banning.

@Ohstopyou the decision isn't up to me, I won't override you. It's your division, not mine.

here's the demo on youtube for you....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2Rge-iVQ2U

The most obvious spot is 0:08-0:15 where he cycles through heads while rechambering.... anyone that thinks this isnt hacking needs to ask bach to show them what an aimbot looks like :p

Thanks for that.

I mean... I can see it either way. But if you get >1000 hours, and you primarily use one weapon you get really really good at it. Snapping to people, although suspicious, isn't something I consider to be a giveaway of hacks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBOlw5Dn6Ec

Watch the kill that happens at 0:56. Different game, but hopefully that helps you understand why I don't think he is hacking. If I can pull a shot like that with 600 hours, I can imagine someone could do it a few times in a row with as many hours as him

Searching steam id returns no bans for hacking.

Again, can't watch demo but I just want yall to seriously consider whether or not he does. Ive been in the same position as him in CSGO. I don't hack either, but there are a lot of AWP shots that look like pure bs.

(Keep it respectful in chat citizen, being rude doesn't help your situation)

Hola.

god, for one thing you should get a week ban at the least for disrespect alone. I am looking at the demo right now.

 

 

#GGNORE You deserve a perm ban, got a ban previously for threats on people and mass disrespect.

My main concern with this is that y'all aren't looking at the reason he was banned, but rather looking for additional reasons to justify a wrong. I don't have the ability to watch the demo, but if it is only 15 seconds and without any consistent evidence then the perm was wrong and should be removed.

We shouldn't be seeking out wrongdoings to help justify a decision on an unrelated offense.

Proof of trolling and disrespect is as follow, i even highlighted the parts that all culminate to create was is clearly deemed as "trolling and disrespect"

In case you didn't get the memo, not once did she ask for your opinion regarding her decision. It was not needed nor welcomed in that thread. We already explained to you that if you want to voice opinion, then fine, but do it at the appropriate place and at the appropriate time. Feel free to post on threads if you would like, but no matter where, whether it be an internet forum or real life, there are things that should not be said. This issue gets brought up again and you're getting banned, permanently. This is because I don't want to hear about it, im sure most of the community doesn't want to hear about it, and because im going to make the executive decision.

Think of it this way: That thread was 100% fine until you posted an opinion, and turned very quickly to a more negative light. Also, it borders, if not is, cyber bullying.

If you do need to talk more about it, send me a private message, but expect me to say the same thing said in the original thread and this one.

Closed, for repairs. And don't make another thread, this will be handled momentarily.

I'd be okay with unbanning since it has been a significant amount of time. +1

unban me cause i used to be cool and stuff. also didnt do anything, pls

What were you banned for in the first place?

Look at the date m80

Oh. I meant I'm leaving. Goodbye everyone.

Goodbye. Best of luck in your future endeavors.

What. I liked it too. All that it was missing was a disco, which I still think should be added in V2 ;)

I tried... but disco is pretty hard to do.

First off, nobody hid anything that was done. It was pretty clear that your posts were deleted and bans were issued for those that were trolling/harassing. Do staff abuse their power on the forum? Eh, thats debateable. I've actually yet to see true proof of anyone abusing their power, maybe using it a little more effectively than others, yes, but not abusing. Also, as diabeetus said, he was the one issuing the bans although I would have done the same thing, but he beat me to it.

Like I said in the forum in question, people are allowed to have their opinions; but there is a time and place. I would be pretty ashamed of myself if I went onto a thread like that and starting bashing a life choice. It wasn't the time nor place for it. The fact that you, and others, personally attacked someone based on their life is beyond inappropriate, especially to the point that they were negatively effected emotionally. If you can't see how your actions led to negative results, then please don't hang around here.

We also don't have to follow the rules that you believe should be set upon yourself. Obviously your content in no way was conducive to a respectful environment, nor were banned persons, and thus they were removed. We used our discretion, appropriately in my opinion, to keep these forums as neutral as possible. Just because you believe your opinions were so important doesn't mean we really give a shit. You respect our members and we respect you, its as simple as that.

Now I do have a deal for you. Show us, with clear and undeniable evidence, where the abuse occurred, why exactly this was abuse according to the rules set forth on this page, and why the comments were appropriate and I will take a second look at it. Until then, nothing is changing (bans and removal of posts will remain).

Also, in case you are curious the basic human rights are necessarily outlined word for word, rather there is a level of interpretation and common sense that must be used. Like I said, ain't nobody here shall ever be harassed or made fun of for their own personal lifestyle.

P.S. @Kypari , I saw your post and just wanted to say thanks for the support, it means a lot.

I forget the name of it, Parrabellum, or something like that. That was a great map with lots of map games. It should definitely be added to CS:GO JB.

Wait. You actually liked our map?

We have our first known fan.

And why can't he serve out the already reduced ban?

What a fucking embarassment. The way this thread has gone is absolutely disgraceful.

I'm all for letting people have opinions and feel no matter the opinion it should be respected. But newsflash, there is a time and place for your opinions. If someone simply makes a thread to alert people of a certain lifestyle change and a want to be called by a different pronoun, you don't need to berate/post your opposing opinion. Not one time did she ask for how you thought of her and her choices. Just because you have a freedom of speech means jackshit when youre being an inconsiderate human. There's a time and place.

Also, @ArminArmout just let us know if you want the thread closed or specific posts deleted and I will gladly do so. If anyone decides to troll or harass armin, or anyone for that matter in the future for lifestyle choices, you better expect an instant ban. There's certain basic and inalienable rights, one is certainly the ability to live however you want without harassment and bullying.

And don't get discouraged or bothered by the people who made comments against you. It's only that they don't understand what it is like to be in your situation, which you can probably understand can be confusing to those not knowledgeable about its specifics. You should never feel less than others, or like an outcast, you are just like the rest of us. Obstacles are presented to everyone, but what makes the true heroes stand out are those that don't let these obstacles stop their progress. You keep being you, and remember that there are always people here that will support you.

Oh hi.

In all seriousness, should the rejoining for divisions like CSGO/MOBA/TS3 really be twenty? With the number of people we have, I think it's too much for us. @diabeetus @Hidingmaster

It's 20 to stop people from leaving and reapplying wherever they want. I'm not entirely against lowering it, but not to 10.