Moosty

It's not sunday but it's still so damn real out here tbh. Send help.

>b3 isn't the updated version, it's literally the most out of date version on the server

I mean now that the poll is much more clear it's less relevant but still +1 absolute accuracy.

Now I understand what you're getting at, and think we should remove daytime, I just want more accuracy in the list, it's clear one is unlike the others. When you say Goldenrod (updated) do you mean b3, aka Frewie's edition? Because that was actually created first, just by a different mapper (day and night are cold endeavour) we had the same confusion in the previous thread, I just want clarification before this one continues.

I wasn't entirely clear earlier, allow me to rephrase.

I'm well aware that weed doesn't cause a chemical addiction, doesn't have harmful effects, and is far less 'potent' then alcohol in general.

I don't care if he smokes weed or not, I think that's perfectly OK.

My problem is if he would moderate a xG server while high, and until I read the posts of the past week (a reminder; I've been camping on work during weekdays), I was convinced from multiple members saying he was frequently high on servers.

That's my fault, I see now that I made my comments before I did enough research to make a proper judgement. Sorry. :unsure: :S

I'm withdrawing my -1 and remaining neutral for now.

 

Regardless, I stand by my point: high, drunk, or whatever; I don't think you should be online moderating a server while your mind and judgement is being manipulated by an outside source.

Im keeping my +1 for probationary but I will say being able to moderate drunk/high is person to person. Moderation is part of responsibility. If someone abuses a substance to excess that shows immaturity as a person, not the drugs fault. A mature person taking a shot or two or a bowl or two I doubt anyone would notice a difference.

Honestly I don't want to be the hater but this might work better in Cs:go. Only recently did tf2 start making items marketable, so a large amount of stuff we could give away (Craft hats, metal, any misc from before they had misc crates) just won't get accepted since it's not marketable. Cs:Go has been using marketable skins for years and barely has any items that can't be bought and sold on the market. While the tf2 marketable stuff is so much harder to come by, and low tier marketables are basically limited to new players who invest in tf2 updates the last two years (hue) and strange weapons. Basically, there are far more low tier csgo items than tf2 items that would qualify, and since csgo is a paid game and tf2 isn't, giving cheap skins to tf2 players is meh to me.

Otherwise it's really just finding cheap tf2 gun skins on the market just to donate, tl;dr tf2 has less than half the available marketables to donate, and the ones it does have, are not commonly laying around like csgo drops.

We have a bop plugin of all TF2 servers now???

Good to know, lol. It would be much more convenient if we, especially the higher ups, would have been told about that.

No plz but whole separate issue.

Bhop is a mistake.

+1 I was wondering why I could also "abuse" (not actual abuse if it's a plugin but using to gain advantage) on ff2 and jump off a cliff and get bhop speed at hyper heavys as hale and get em, and as stated, just dip whenever hale got near.

Haven't played it on trade servers but I'd assume it's less of a gameplay issue. I mean, getting backstabbed by bhop spies and lit by bhop pyros sucks, but it's more fair when one side has an "equal" opportunity to just turn or bhop away without OP stats.

Yeah I'll +1 for probationary mod, seems like the type who would make good staff amd he's plenty active.

Honestly, why can't we just keep it? It's not sexualized whatsoever and if someone gets seriously upset by this then we can't help them.

We can have exceptions every once in a while if all TF2 higher ups agree. Additionally, given what @Vector said I see no point in removing or even trying to edit the map.

People seem to think I'm upset or offended by this, I'm not, and I don't think it's sexual. My issue was that nothing in our rules said "non sexual nudity can be allowed" or "if it's just lines it's fine" It's confusing to new players who get spawned in front of it while the motd contradicts what they're seeing. If we allow exceptions at higher up discretion that's fine, I'd just like to see it written down somewhere. Even a catch all "higher ups can allow exceptions if a consensus is reached" above or below ALL of our rules.

I feel personally attacked

Took me 2 minutes for my phone to let me read the image, and it turns out mediocre :( too much build up, I was honestly disappointed. I need the shitstorms of old...

Yeah I would prefer this so we don't have to remove the map completely. I could do it if nobody else wants to.

*Swoons* MY HERO...

Couldn't someone just go in hammer and fix this problem instantly? We don't need to remove the map just for this one thing because we have the tools to change it. Unless people are -1ing for the art to stay I see no reason for this change.

 

Please correct me if im wrong :\

No that's a perfectly valid outcome. My issue is with the rule contradiction, not the map itself.

Problem is that Lxgik is 15. People can say weed isn't harmful as much as they want but that's a lie when you're growing up, and I've seen Lxgik when he's high. He's fucking out of it, and I don't trust anyone who is that out of it on the servers, especially not to do staff jobs.

I completely agree with you Supreme. I'm not comfortable at all when Lxgik is around and I know he's more susceptible to breaking rules by accident when he's high.

 

Weed is illegal where I am and I know what people are like around my age when they're high. You hardly come on enough to know Lxgik when he's high in the first place so you shouldn't throw passive aggressive comments in the first place honestly. Also, just because Weed isn't as bad as alcohol doesn't mean that weed is any better. In my opinion it's as bad because it's a gateway drug to harder drugs, whereas alcohol is a drink that most drink in moderation.

 

15 year olds smoking weed makes the community look really bad too. I definitely wouldn't want to come back to a server that had a young staff member actively getting high on servers, weed or not.

Don't claim to know more about weed and then say it's a gateway drug, disproven AF.

And as for the rest of your post those are valid reasons to -1. But they're lxgics personal issues, not a weed issue. Don't blame the drug if he isn't being mature. That's just called immaturity. We have stoners that can effectively do their job and some that can't, clearly weed isn't the deciding factor in that, it's personal responsibility and maturity.

And miss me with gateway drug nonsense.

Yeah I'm going to switch to a -1 for unban, too much smoke for there to be no fire, and we have quite a consensus.

Honestly these responses are just ignorance. Weed is objectively safer/less judgement affecting than alcohol, and we let people of legal age drink. weed is legal where I am and I'm high on the servers fairly often (I've kind of been cutting back in general but that's personal and beside the point) someone being fit for staff really doesn't have much to do with intoxicants. If you abuse because you're drunk/high then you weren't fit staff, it wasn't the drugs fault. As for forgetfullness yeah he might miss a chat spam here or there, but we all do that anyway, nobody can read it 24/7. If he's fit staff his choice of how to relax has no effect on that, and if it does, he was never fit staff.

 

Tl;dr mature people gonna be mature, immature people gonna be immature, stop blaming substances and blame yourself, because it's your fault. Drugs and drink don't make good staff go bad, those people just were bad staff.

 

As for the thread +1 for probationary mod. I talked to him today about this and the rules and he's got a good head on his shoulders. I honestly don't think him winding down with some bud is going to drastically change that, because it doesn't drastically change people.

I will add though (can't edit on phone plz) that even if you are smoking not to do it over mic or throw it in peoples faces, as I talked to you about today. I got called out on it and it was deserved, so I stopped. It makes us look bad. But as for you on your own time, go for it.

Honestly these responses are just ignorance. Weed is objectively safer/less judgement affecting than alcohol, and we let people of legal age drink. weed is legal where I am and I'm high on the servers fairly often (I've kind of been cutting back in general but that's personal and beside the point) someone being fit for staff really doesn't have much to do with intoxicants. If you abuse because you're drunk/high then you weren't fit staff, it wasn't the drugs fault. As for forgetfullness yeah he might miss a chat spam here or there, but we all do that anyway, nobody can read it 24/7. If he's fit staff his choice of how to relax has no effect on that, and if it does, he was never fit staff.

Tl;dr mature people gonna be mature, immature people gonna be immature, stop blaming substances and blame yourself, because it's your fault. Drugs and drink don't make good staff go bad, those people just were bad staff.

As for the thread +1 for probationary mod. I talked to him today about this and the rules and he's got a good head on his shoulders. I honestly don't think him winding down with some bud is going to drastically change that, because it doesn't drastically change people.

Im a bit curious, what would now count as "Nudity"?

Any naked humanoid that isn't artistic sketches

Neutral for now. Played with him tonight and he was good but I still got some shots in he didn't seem superhuman. I wore tags though so he might have been being careful or not toggled yet. In my eyes I wouldn't be shocked either way so I'll wait till I see a demo.

https://puu.sh/wRr8x/1bc5ffed8c.jpg

I'm telling you, the image is not anywhere close to how bad you're describing it is. There are no "flaps" nor is there anything sexual about the image. The pose the woman is taking is a common pose used in art like this. PG - 13 is entirely subjective, as the idea of PG - 13 as drastically changed over time.

 

Here is an excerpt I found someone had written when comparing Art to Pornography:

"...while both art and pornography utilize nude figures, the purpose/motives for portraying the naked body are definitively distinct. Pornography utilizes nude figures for the pure purpose of stimulating the baser instincts of individuals; instincts that will not be satisfied by that alone. Art, on the other hand, utilizes nude figures for the purpose of highlighting the beauty of man. While pornography engenders lust, art engenders admiration for the glory and beauty of the human body, and thus the glory of its Maker."

You can find the full article here: Art vs. Pornography: What’s the Difference?

 

Honestly, if you find this image at all erotic, I would seriously be concerned for you if you walked through an art gallery.

 

Edit: Also, the map is on GameBanana: CYBERPUNK 2 (Team Fortress 2 > Maps > Death Match) - GAMEBANANA

GameBanana does not allow any pornographic images in the maps on their website.

and if you're saying artistic nudity is pg and not pg-13, I'll argue that until the cows come home, because I feel that's incorrect

Edit: PG - 13 not R, it's clearly beyond Disney/pixar

https://puu.sh/wRr8x/1bc5ffed8c.jpg

I'm telling you, the image is not anywhere close to how bad you're describing it is. There are no "flaps" nor is there anything sexual about the images. The pose the woman is taking is a common pose used in art like this. PG - 13 is entirely subjective, as the idea of PG - 13 as drastically changed over time.

 

Here is an excerpt I found someone had written when comparing Art to Pornography:

"...while both art and pornography utilize nude figures, the purpose/motives for portraying the naked body are definitively distinct. Pornography utilizes nude figures for the pure purpose of stimulating the baser instincts of individuals; instincts that will not be satisfied by that alone. Art, on the other hand, utilizes nude figures for the purpose of highlighting the beauty of man. While pornography engenders lust, art engenders admiration for the glory and beauty of the human body, and thus the glory of its Maker."

You can find the full article here: Art vs. Pornography: What’s the Difference?

 

Honestly, if you find this image at all erotic, I would seriously be concerned for you if you walked through an art gallery.

I'm not saying it's erotic porn that I want to jack my ding dong too I'm saying it blatantly breaks our rules and we should either edit the rules or edit the map. you're correct about the difference between art and pornography, now throw what you just posted in our rules and my complaints are over. it's the lack of transparency and blatant ignoring of our own rules I have a problem with, not the semantics of what is and isn't pornography. or whether pornography is inherently sexual. put in the rule "no nudity unless DM+ find it has artistic value" and it's problem solved, I just don't see why people are so big on Keeping the map unchanged AND ignoring the fact that it breaks our rules. I'm not attacking anyone here just pointing out that we're contradicting ourself

Your description is once again, blowing it way out of proportion, kinda like this entire thread. The image you used has all the parts you just described in "vivid (concerning) detail" covered up with sprays. It's nowhere near as bad as you are saying it is, it's once again, the roughest sketch it can possibly be while still considered art.

 

That's because maps with actual pornography are removed, exceptions can be made for maps where it's almost unnoticed, such as Hotel Hell.

I would have loved to get an uncensored shot but donators noclipped to cover too quickly, and removing sprays so I can UNCOVER nudity seemed shady, But it isn't a "just a rough sketch" when you have defined flaps and areolas. It's maybe "as close to a rough sketch to be considered unfinished" but except for a missing arm it's a complete image, and arms aren't what's under discussion here. but next time I'm on the map I'll be sure to post a full minge shot and uncover censoring sprays if need be, as long as I have your permission, I want all the info possible in this thread, so people can make an informed decision.

Edit: and not a single person can possibly genuinely believe this huge ass billboard of nudity "goes unnoticed" like a tiny model of a magazine

hey remember Dracula dick?

Hey remember how we instantly removed that map because it broke our rules?

..But it was funny while it lasted ;)

The image in question is not in any way striking an erotic pose, and the picture is obviously used in an artistic from. It's a rough sketch, not anything close to being "highly detailed" nor even possibly showing any more than really needs to be shown. Keep in mind, this is a far stretch from pornography, so calling it porn is not exactly the way to go about it. Hotel Hell has a pixelated porn magazine and we allowed it because it's literally so small that it's hardly noticeable nor does it make that much of an impact. You would've been better off making a "remove hotel hell" thread since that is more closer to pornographic than the image on Cyberpunk.

 

Edit: But if you guys really want the image removed, I can ask someone to simply remove the image in Hammer.

A pixelated porn magazine on the ground, half the size of a scout model, that you can avoid. and a non pixelated naked woman, vag flaps, bush, and nips unpixelated and detailed, 10ish scout models tall, that the map randomly spawns you in front of are very different.

and Whether porn or not, it's detailed, unpixelated nudity, and not pg:13. if we keep it I just want consistency in the rules

Why would the administration of my school allow that documentary if it was porn? Because it was all artistic nudity

Schools have permission slips that tell parents when nudity is coming. We are random spawning players in front of a Vag and Bush the size of a playermodel with no warning. If parent's didn't want their kids seeing the "artistic nudity" they had the option not too. can you see how that's different than dropping randoms in front of a hairy bush with no warning?

are you saying we should show kids a load of porn lol

No, I'm saying If we have a rule against porn we should be consistent with it, not allow porn sometimes If people like a certain map. If we allow exceptions, the rule should say we allow exceptions.