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all three are good imo

Take anything anyone says about Sniper here with a grain of salt because 

1. Most people here play mainly on flat, poorly designed trade server maps. 

2. Most people here play pubs, where there are more than six people on each team and the chances of any given one of them playing a slow class are exponentially higher. 

3. Most people here, including myself, blow chunks at actual TF2.

Veganism is actually a pretty difficult philosophy to challenge for the average idiot, not that you have to understand any of that to be a vegan, a lot of people just do it because they like animals or whatever. 

I'd wager most people would agree to the sentiment that suffering should be reduced wherever possible, however most people aren't vegan, so there's some disconnect there. It's totally plausible for the average American to never eat meat again, in some cases cheaper on their budget even (given you don't live in a food desert), so the real question is why doesn't the average person? I'd argue that people think of humans as "different" or above animals and that gives them some reasoning to justify it to themselves. But in reality humans are just another species of animal, there's nothing out there that says we're "special", that no other forms of life can reach the level we have. Another reason I think is that a lot of people also think of animals as "unfeeling", like robots, but biological life. I think this is a mistaken notion, there are many documented cases of animals displaying what appears to be empathy, not only within species, but across the lines of species. Additionally most people would feel pretty queasy about eating a dog, but are fine with bacon or pork products, even though pigs are technically more intelligent animals. 

So ultimately, if you think suffering should be reduced wherever possible (within the realms of being able to live a healthy and comfortable life let's say), what are the reasons for remaining a carnist (eating meat)? I don't think there are any really, and you can feel free to debate me on this, but I don't think there's a consistent worldview that allows the average first world middle-class citizen to minimize suffering while eating meat. I personally don't even think suffering is reducible because merely continuing to live is in essence a selfish act. Rather I think patterns of co-operation and nonviolence are evolutionary advantages meant to give both me and my fellow humans a leg up. If the biggest threat towards my own existence is another human, then language empathy and communication are advanced ways to communicate a "cease fire" so to speak, as we both pose the biggest threat towards the other's existence. I do this not out of a wish to minimize risk for my neighbor, but as a way to minimize risk for myself, which plays into the "selfishness" I mentioned earlier. With most animals this doesn't really exist. I as a human cannot communicate this proverbial "cease fire" of sorts with a bear, as if a bear cannot interpret what I communicate, there's no guarantee of my own "selfish" gain. Therefore this argument for veganism holds no real value to me.

There are other reasons to consider veganism or limiting your consumption of meat that I think hold a little more value. I would be more swayed to veganism personally from a conservation standpoint because the meat industry is not only inefficient, it is also one of the largest causes of pollution on a global scale. Additionally at the rate we continue to consume meat, it seems completely unsustainable to keep going, we'll either have to figure out several effective work-arounds or perfect and create an industry for lab meat. 

Food for thought.

fourth most viable offensive class

I just want to clarify that although I made an extremely funny meme quip as my first post I really don't care if this gets added. I'll just fucking mute the channel like tatost said lmao.

Delet this nephew 

Highschool is worthless, pass your classes and leave.

p i r a t e  s h i p

55 minutes ago, cook said:

I'm actually amazed how much people care about this not being added. Like, I totally understand why people don't want it, but I wasn't expecting this much of a backlash

Then you are an imbecile and a fool. Folks here have a negative reaction to people liking certain things on their own time privately.

https://youtu.be/K7U6_Ml-QA0

-1 no. 

People who care about what other people like are brainlets but it literally has nothing to do with gaming history and it would just add to everyone's download time when changing maps. 

Also gay bonfire gaming.

1 hour ago, Tatost said:

spawn protection is only active for 2-4 seconds I don't see the big problem lmao

You can make it out of clocktown spawn as scout pretty easy with a second or two of invincibility. It also makes demoman pretty ridiculous because you can bomb with close to no downside. But I agree I'm not like frothing at the mouth for it to go, I just think it's a shitty fix to a problem that has roots a little deeper than "spawncamping lol"

spawn protection is pretty stupid considering spawn camping is a product of poor map-design 90% of the time and is still do-able even with protection on.

@Dannypicacho someone who listed "PeanutButterGamer" as their favorite youtuber has no right to react to my post in such a way.

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So actually speaking of skial, I'd like to bring something up.

Server Rules

WWW.SKIAL.COM

---

Rules These actions may result in bans, silences, or other punishments. Examples are listed. But just because you don't see something here does not...

Their rules almost exactly mirror ours except for: 

And I guess this is my whole hangup with the whole debacle, part of the reason I stepped down from moderator was not wanting to split hairs with people I was acquainted with over just a casual general use of the "soft a" so to speak. And like, I'm not the kind of person who's really gung-ho about using words that might make others feel uncomfortable, but I also don't think it's my place to word police anyone. People exist in environments different than mine, and I would find it insane if I was in a position where I had to tell a black person they couldn't use the n bomb, or a gay person that they couldn't call themselves a fag. But for consistency's sake, it should probably really be "all" or "none", and if we decide it's "all", harassment of players should have a zero tolerance policy and our rules should be edited to reflect that. Because I know one of the first problems we're going to encounter is people targeting other people based on sexuality or race or something and then play it off as a joke.

17 minutes ago, Sesh said:

-1 mostly since people need to learn to relax and ignore someone if they're saying words they don't like. If someone is going out of their way to harass someone else with the terms then yeah, punish them for that, but if simply seeing the word 'faggot' or so on causes you to stop functioning or just start hyperventilating then I don't know how you survive browsing the internet, unless you confine yourself to xG servers and sites only. It's not the same as going to a workspace in real life or being stuck around actual people that are tormenting you or calling you those things and whatever else, it's just people playing on a video game server.

Plus, if you ban one thing you may as well start banning every other offensive word now that could be deemed rude or mean towards a group of people, or just anything rude altogether, servers are already pretty strict compared to some others with how it's currently ran, don't think they need to be made even more strict, just deal out punishments to the individual people that are trying to harass rather than limiting more words for everyone. Don't want this to become something like Twitter where you can't breathe without someone losing their minds.

Twitter's pretty lax in terms of rules, the people on it might not be in terms of what they themselves think is acceptable. 

People also not wanting to be around certain language is not equivalent to them being hyper sensitive or whatever you're implying. We've seemingly collectively decided that we'd rather have our servers be an environment without the use of racial slurs. Does that make us hyper-sensitive? 

The slippery slope is a fallacy, one type of word being banned does not inherently mean all other less offensive words follow, but as I've pointed out, if we ban racial slurs because they're slurs and in general we think they will not have a positive impact, it's not odd for people to think that it's inconsistent that we allow all the other ones. I do not think our servers are strict at all comparative to other ones. If you look up the rules for skial or jump academy, or any other large group, they tend to be relatively close to ours. Our servers aren't lawless dumps, I like that. I feel it elevates the discussion and enjoyment for most everyone involved. People trying to purposely antagonize people by toeing the line has always annoyed me and the less damage they can do by trying that, the better.

Just now, Moosty said:

I'm voting to keep it on the sole purpose that it's endearing and nostalgic to randomly thriller and get rekt when you were supposed to get an easy taunt kill. we were all raised by this jank and you are disrespecting your past by trying to get rid of it.

YOU CANNOT THRILLER WITH ANY WEAPON THAT CAN TAUNT KILL 

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE LISTEN TO MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

23 minutes ago, Nyxll said:

Never liked the taunt, it can really get in the way when you are trying to use your weapon taunt.

It can't actually, the thriller taunt shouldn't ever occur on weapons with taunt kills. It only interrupts taunts like the best taunt in the game from bazooka/dh

Also just to point out, I'm pretty sure faggot at one point was a banned word, and I'm fairly certain I've seen people punished for "Dyke", so saying "Yeah but no racial slurs and everything else on a subjective basis is how we do things and have always done things" isn't even correct. We don't even follow that consistently.

15 minutes ago, Krampus said:

Okay well I'ma just add my two cents into this thread and say that to be honest I have never cared too much bout being called it as a joke or hearing other people call each other faggot. The thing that I do care about is when people are out right trying to make someone feel bad and hurt them with it or any other form of slur which is where the no disrespect and harassment rule comes in to stop this, which is what we have done so far. Which is why in my opinion I'm okay with it being allowed since it's fine if some people wanna joke around with it or other stuff, as long as they aren't trying to to hurt someone with them. Plus there's the fact that we can't just go around banning every slur and making a list for it as there will always be new ones that aren't in the rules so I'd rather just leave it open.

Also, 

That's what it already is right now. I'm pretty sure at the moment all racial slurs are basically banned and we just punish them as we find them, and we didn't really make everything ironclad? People were just questioning over the spray rule so they clarified it to where basically nothing really too inappropriate is allowed, which is fine. The slur rule has been the same for a pretty long time now, which it doesn't really need a change imo since the problem this thread is discussing is already handled as racism isn't allowed in general, and for faggot and other slurs that would just go under disrespect if someone uses it in that way.

Yes, but what I'm saying is that, by making this push for moderation with less "subjectivity", which is a sentiment we've all seen echoed in the whole spray debacle multiple times, they've collectively screwed any stance where you want a moderator to make a subjective choice. What's the difference between calling someone a faggot and the big ol n bomb? Nothing really, they're both slurs, so if you've purported this goddamn binary where either something is allowed or it isn't, you can't be fůcking upset when people end up comparing like to like and wanting more slurs banned.

Thriller taunt blows every time I try to beat my chest to show dominance I just have a weak little spasm

My stance usually would be that we shouldn't even need a list of banned words and like nearly every other platform, rather should try to figure out on a case by case basis whether something constitutes as harassment or not. 

With that said, I think multiple users, multiple times, have demonstrated that they get some kind of enjoyment out of doing literally anything just to get under other users' skin, and will play anything they've done in bad faith off as a "joke" when confronted about it. It also doesn't really help our community or servers to have someone shouting the n word over and over again because it amuses their Cro Magnon brain (and we do have those users), I don't think that would make our servers feel very inviting or cast the rest of our community in a very intelligent light. 

So idk. It seems like the easiest work around would be to just have a ban on racial slurs, if anything, and then evaluate anything else on a case-by-case basis. But everyone thought rules were too loose and moderators too subjective and wanted everything to be iron clad, so yall really fůcked yourselves here, there's not really a case that can be made anymore that's logically coherent you goddamn fools.