LAN_Megalodon

eh, on one hand I think it's pretty funny and I like the aesthetic, but on the other hand it really is just a worse longer bunker. 

+1 but I don't really care all that much, we hardly seem to rtv to it anyway. 

"Kypari does not want to be around me and my toxic persona therefore every punitive action taken against me by them is invalid." 

Yeah ok, no. I didn't even want to make a serious post here because the argument made for why your ban is invalid is so challenging to take seriously that I don't know if anybody can even attempt it. I do not like mau, I do not particularly know moo, but mocking two people you don't know for what you sarcastically assume their sexuality is isn't really what I'd consider a joke made in good faith. You also went far and beyond just calling them "boyfriends" or whatever too, so that's off the table. 

Furthermore it's not an issue of "Kypari doesn't like me". From what I remember historically you've had some pretty major issues with following basic rules on the server; a couple cases of donator abuse, constant trolling, etc. I don't think I'm a perfect person, in fact I think I lose my chill pretty fast, but I do not for one minute believe that it's Kypari stalking you around waiting for you to make any misstep so much as you constantly pushing boundaries with people until you take one step two far and Kypari ends up being called in because he's an active mod/admin/whatever. Additionally I personally have witnessed you attacking some staff when (you assume) nobody's on, so I also think you're anything but the impartial buddy-buddy you claim to be. 

I don't even really care about whether you're punished or not, I just want to voice how I think almost no claim of yours in the entire thread makes sense. About the only thing I can agree with is that there's a small section of brainlets on our servers who want to cheese the game and start poop with players far above their level, which I guess welcome to xg, can't really punish people for being egotistical, and it's definitely not a valid reason to harass them.

2 hours ago, Miguel said:

Sandman is useless now

good

Ambassador and Tide Turner are the only undeserved nerfs

2 minutes ago, OneGlove said:

 

If there is no real benefit to the exploit, then why even bother defending it? There is no benefit I can see other than "lol lets trigger people by being loud".

The only reason I see for you arguing to keep this functioning is for the sake of arguing.

Idk, it makes a vaguely boring time period more interesting and there's no real complaint other than "it's loud". There's not even really an exploit unless you're also willing to count people equipping the pan on scout and making as much noise as humanly possible an "exploit". If we really stretch the limits of believability you might be able to beat a short surf map in the 20 seconds if you giga-trimp the entire way, but even then it's a moot point because everything resets and you lose any bonus for doing so.

I'd like to also bring up that if it really bugs you that much you can manually find the demoknight sound files and lower/edit them. I know the obvious retort to this is that "but that puts me at a disadvantage against enemy demoknights", and my counter to that is lmao dude ur playing on surf a spy can backwards bhop at lightspeed into your face and backstab you, you've already forsaken playing the game in any serious manner. 

Also this happens on each trade server at the beginning of the round and it's never really been that bothersome imo. It's pointless having infinite ammo for the 30 seconds before round, but every kill within those 30 seconds is pointless, so idk, it makes an otherwise pointless time period on the server more interesting I guess? 

-1

35 minutes ago, NitNat said:

You're just restating what's already been mentioned by someone else.  The "exaggerated voice" on servers is clearly not to irritate someone.  I've seen a few examples of it being for humor that should've annoy anyone in the first place.  I was even told today "no immature voice allowed" when I answered a question to a surf friend today in a slightly higher pitch than my normal voice in one sentence.  I didn't have the intent behind to annoy anyone with it but as a little burst of humor to lighten to mood of the surf in general, but seeing how up in the air the current "rule" of that is, it creates a no fun allowed feeling in the servers.

If you're having that kind of problem, collect evidence and create abuse reports. It doesn't matter if we write 350+ words on two golden tablets about a certain rule, issues with interpretation are always going to occur because words cannot completely explain intention in full. 

Personally I find the rule useful because we do have those cavemen who come on and try to do their best impression of Peter from family guy or whatever else for two hours straight.

Rules are generally enforced through precedence, so if you are having problems with staff picking on you for having a small bit of fun, make reports and bring attention to your issue, but generally there's always going to be some amount of subjective interpretation involved with rule enforcement regardless of how well it's worded. In fact I'd argue the more wordy and lengthier the more likely players just skip reading it, which doesn't solve anything.

Just now, Shadower said:

In my experience with this rule, its usually just used to silence people who are making imitations or impersonations as a joke, then perhaps a staff member would be like "no immature voices on mic stop it." personally I don't see any problem with the jokes and stuff, as long as its not interrupting any trades/not malintent, but most of the times it seems like a no fun allowed rule.

There was some dude who came on poketrade and just talked in a sub-par impersonation of the soldier's voice 24/7. Trust me, it's a useful rule to keep around.

"No immature voices" is no longer related to the actual age of the persons on mic and is now used as more of a method of dealing with people who intentionally use an exaggerated voice to irritate people.

The issue with running a really niche kind of gamemode is that you only attract a niche audience if any at all. While B-Ball is a cool gamemode there's not really reason to run it when some mge modes just have bball as an arena, so you simultaneously are attracting people who want to play bball and people who just want to mge. I think the idea of having the server be some kind of specific new gamemode, while commendable, is a bit of wishful thinking when we basically need daily callouts to keep ff2 populated, and when even the rotation server was on mge it was hardly visited.

F i g h t.  M e.  S p i r e.  Y o u.  E l o.  B i t c h

this map is fudgeing awful lmao idk what you mean, it doesn't take more than five minutes to realize the issues with this map. 

-It's just a bunch of flat ground 

-Spawns can see each other with nothing covering the sight-line 

-I've spawned multiple times and just had one health, I get that that's probably supposed to be like an afk manager or something, but we already have one of those and I've killed myself like twice trying to jump somewhere after spawn protection wore off  because I had assumed that I had full health because I just fudgeing respawned 

Beyond that there's my subjective opinion of there just not being a ton to the map, and it also doesn't look very aesthetically pleasing imo, being from like sonic adventure I think? The grass looks like goddamn banana land I mean holy cow.

People don't have the social cues they normally have in an irl conversation, so I agree, it's really fudgeing annoying to have some higher up butt into the middle of a civil conversation and yell 'EXCUSE ME PLEASE ONLY ONE ON THE MIC" just because one of you didn't realize the other wasn't done yet. Like I've seen this enough times and it's honestly like "okay, what do you think annoys people more here, the fact that two people were briefly talking at the same time, or someone grinding the entire discourse to a halt to holler at them not to do something neither of them were intending to do?" 

Equally enough times I've seen people just not fudgeing caring what's going on or who's talking before them and it just devolves into noise, so while the first situation is annoying, the rule is a necessary evil imo.

Good luck with whatever you're doing next man, I didn't really know you too well, but no news tends to be good news and you were pretty friendly whenever I saw you in-game.

Didn't you just come back what? 

Anyway take care man, I hardly know you, but we always need more poopposters when half the folks in this here gaming clan here get so angry, it adds some levity, so I personally hope you come back soon if at all.

"I know damn well I’m not the only one who feels like it’s just a bunch of friends gathering together to protect anyone in that circle and not caring about anyone outside of their groups input." 

Everything in that thread was organized by three people if we want to talk about friend groups. I don't think Krampus is in the right there, I think I've done my best to express that, and the fact that we're kind of friendly towards each other doesn't change that, but it's extremely hypocritical for certain individuals to suggest that "friend groups" are the cause of someone's opinions on the matter when it's that individual and their friend group that orchestrated the whole gig, even rightfully so. 

then there's displays of absolute genius like these

"people are dog-piling their friends this isn't fair" 

k 

I don't really care who you are or what your stance on the precious-spray-matter is, all I ask is that people look at themselves for five bloody seconds before they claim that people are deciding issues based on whether an individual is in a friend group or not. 

Self examination and nuance is not a particularly difficult feat. 

The best part about those reactions is that there weren't even any negative ones until the thread was locked, which I was you know, going to point out (but locked thread xddd). If you want to make the case that there's some kind of cronyism or favoritism going on it's probably best to just give your friends a heads up to not instantly react positively to your thread, it makes the idea that you're being oppressed a whole lot more believable. 

Okay okay okay, so just stay with me here, as I see it we've got three options if we're going to change the rules: 

1. Realize that no matter what changes we make to the rules, there's always going to be some form of grey area if we allow any form of sexualized content, and because of this being inevitable, the current set of rules are fine, we've just encountered one of the unavoidable road-bumps, and therefore should deal with the issue but keep the current set of rules. 

2. Try to change the current set of rules to no avail, hypothetically the best we could do is ban any form of nudity including nipples and butts in addition to what our current rules cover, but once again this doesn't really change anything in terms of having to deal with grey areas constantly. 

3. Remove the ability to see sprays. Have to continue dealing with the same issues we're having with sprays with objectors because maybe you don't realize it but people will just fudgeing move to those lmao. 

I don't want to be rude but it does seem like people are hijacking a thread about an admin calling a bad shot to either try and make our rules on sprays more puritanical or remove them entirely. This is the whole reason we have an in-clan bureaucracy, to deal with the inevitable grey areas that will occur no matter what we do. I am slightly more biased because personally I'm not really put off by nudity or weird poop, but I think anyone rallying for a rule change should really examine whether changing the rules will eliminate the problems, or just change the context in which they eventually occur. 

7 minutes ago, Bone said:

I was gonna make this huge long post about sprays and bias and whatnot when an idea came to me...

Here's my suggestion, and I'm prepared to get negatively rated into oblivion for this, but why don't we just disable sprays server wide?

It's been proven, time and time again that players and staff feel completely differently about sprays and their subject matter. Even to a point where I have seen players (some of which are even staff now or were staff) argue with staff members that their spray is allowed since it follows the rules but the staff member personally doesn't believe so (even while another staff member allows it). This has even caused some players to purposefully alter their sprays so they're not "technically" against the rules, but still pushing the lines (again, this has been done by current and past staff members).

The CS:GO Division doesn't have this issue. You know why? Because CS:GO doesn't have sprays (at least not to the degree of TF2's system).

So either we come to a global agreement and clarify rules even more so, which has been tried many times and we still have this issue, or we just disable the spray ability and save TF2 staff another headache they don't need. 

I mean there's plenty of things we have to go after time and time again even though rules are pretty clear, that's what moderators are for. The solution to "bodyblocking" for instance isn't to just give everyone no-collide or remove every instance of a teleporter within a map, even though it's a rule we constantly have to deal with enforcing. Besides which, I'm pretty sure "nothing explicit" is a pretty concrete one to maintain, although we could certainly go further and make a rule about anything even "questionable", it's just that our new rule as of January is incredibly vague for no real reason. Back when I was mod I didn't ever really even have to question whether sprays were allowed or not because the ruling on it as it was told to me was just not something subjective.  Then we introduced "allowing bulges as long as you can't make out the genitalia" or whatever and it all went downhill.  

1 minute ago, Aegean said:

I don't think it was any ill intent from Krampus, but I definitely think that either both sprays should follow the same guideline as the only difference is just one is cartoon and the other isn't. It's still lewd + censored (even though the first image isn't a great censor lol)

+1 for rule clarification

-1 for any punishment on kramp

So can we get a detailed rule clarification here and now? (Just like in general not necessarily from you or anything) Because "no explicit nudity" isn't really a great explanation and if I were just an outsider or new mod reading this I would end up interpreting it as "individuals in sprays can't not have clothes". If we're making a new line where do we draw it, or if not, are we just back to "if you don't show any part of genitalia or tiddy nipples you're good" ?

19 minutes ago, LAN_Megalodon said:

The editing on the first one isn't done particularly well enough imo, I think I can still see the lips through the blur, the second one should be fine though imo fair is fair. 

I was on surf when this was going down but sprays were not working for a while for me, (I couldn't even see my own for a bit) so I had no idea what the issue was I only heard about it secondhand. 

I can't actually tell what the fudge is going on in the spider one because it seems to be merely lineart, but if it is indeed an areola that should be a no-no from what I remember from my brief stint as mod, but idk it also looks like it could just reasonably be part of a larger stomach pattern.

by second I should clarify "the second irl 3d woman" not the spider.

The editing on the first one isn't done particularly well enough imo, I think I can still see the lips through the blur, the second one should be fine though imo fair is fair. 

I was on surf when this was going down but sprays were not working for a while for me, (I couldn't even see my own for a bit) so I had no idea what the issue was I only heard about it secondhand. 

I can't actually tell what the fudge is going on in the spider one because it seems to be merely lineart, but if it is indeed an areola that should be a no-no from what I remember from my brief stint as mod, but idk it also looks like it could just reasonably be part of a larger stomach pattern.

2 minutes ago, Moosty said:

Maybe if valve didn't de_stroy my fast gloves heavy could be at midfights and viable to switch out the demo/pocket for, leading to more variety in the mode, but valve listens to b4nny and not me, so that's none of my business...

#ExtremelyNotSalty

pootis to mid is exactly why the gloves were banned in both american and eu leagues lul, what do you think happens when two heavies get to mid?

Valve comp has no rule sets idk what you mean, that's what makes it casual. There's like no standard enforced so people can run whatever team composition/weapons they want, regardless of whether it's broken or throwing. 

And comp is double scout, double soldier, demo and med traditionally because those classes are the fastest to mid and also having two of scout/soldier doesn't slow the game down to an unbearable point. Every other class limit is one, and you can run them about whenever, (that doesn't mean it's effective though).

valve comp is casual sixes

+1 bonfire for cl lmao