hongkongatron

:)

-1 to remove masscc (Refer to og Thunder)
+1 to remove Thunderlimes

hi! apparently you care, enough to reply to a several month old thread! thanks!

So slaying someone for an obscure rule, not telling them what they did wrong when they asked, then banning them for a month after they called me stupid is not the right thing to do? Oh, okay.
 

AYYYYYYYYYY This is that shit I've felt for years and couldn't explain.<3+1

Great post, although I can't say how effective it will be as the people who are ban happy probably have too short of an attention span to even read this post

This stems from the 2 disputes that happened last week from the TF2 community but is still a good piece of discussion even by itself.
 
First of all, our servers are meant to be a place for everyone in our community and people who visit our servers to have fun. I'm going to try to break down what we used to do and what I feel is sometimes not reflected in our community anymore.
 
Whenever we were on CSS, CS:GO or TF2, (even before I was Co-leader) issues obviously occurred. Sometimes we had a free-killer on the server, or a guard + prisoner arguing etc. The role of the staff should be right away to fix the problem WHILE keeping the servers interests in mind.
 
If someone got freekilled, we would also message them after slaying; if we know it was a freekill (either via voice, all chat, or pm)
"Hey man, you got slayed cuz you freekilled X during this game. If you get too close to them, they are allowed to knife since you are baiting, so you freekilled. You're not getting banned, just wanted to let you know to be careful and read the rules"
 
This lets you not only resolve the problem and let the server know you are doing right by punishing them, but the person who broke the rules understands exactly what happens, and lets them have another go at our server without feeling alienated.
 
There are PLENTY of situations that you (as staff) are not there for, but still need to resolve to help out the server. You should always be willing to communicate with BOTH parties, and get a good compromise or to punish them fairly if you don't feel there's anything more you can do to resolve this in an easy manner. Ask them one at a time what the issue is, gag/mute one of them if they aren't letting the other talk, after hearing both their stories, ask witnesses or look at chat logs and see what's going on.
 
The whole point of us punishing a person in our servers (Not perm punishments) is for the SOLE reason that we want to reform them. We don't week ban people first offense, just so they never come back again. That's not the point of our mutes,gags,bans. It's to teach people that their (repeated) offenses aren't okay here, and that we want everyone to enjoy their time here.
 
TL;DR for people who want a simple explanation, staff are not ban-bots programmed to ban anyone and everyone out of line, it's to fix any issues that people are having, and even if someone has previous offenses, if you can resolve a problem without banning, and the server is happy, then you are doing the right thing. You are there to ensure people (including you) have fun in our servers, and that no one is trying to ruin it for others.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybhjox7LhmY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybhjox7LhmY

It should stay at a week. His last ban was a day and he clearly broke the rules. Plus it makes for a lot simpler in the long run because if staff see that he was unbanned (as well as new staff) then they might think this ban his invalid so they ban them for a week again.

+1 I think my reasoning is clear

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_B9znfZ7Ws
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im6tbN9SZXs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DCFiOSDlr0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnTpegRe3sM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16v_M1ygxYE

never mind ignore this I didn't understand what bello meant I have a pea brain

Well said. My thoughts, quick and compressed: Was the ban justified?
Not really. Where do I start? If I recall correctly, we do a day -> a week -> a month. Were these steps followed? I don't think so. All bans that I am seeing are from about about a year ago (let's not take the ones for calladmin abuse into consideration, as that's a whole different topic). So we have one ban from 10-30-15 for disrespect. There is also the one from early this year which seems to be due to disrespect and calladmin abuse as well, though I don't know what exactly got him banned at the end. Only @Shadower may now. While I would rather give Sylux the benefit of the doubt, let's just assume it was for the same exact reason as yesterday - unless you want to take REALLY old bans into consideration, then there is no way a one month ban would be justified, as there was no recent week ban.
If you want to justify a month ban, then in my personal opinion using a week ban from 08-21-15 is a little weak, as people change during two whole years. If you think that he should have gotten a week earlier, that is fine but matter of fact, he hasn't and Sylux himself definitely cannot be held accountable for that. I'm also curious as to why Zac "only" got muted while Sylux was banned. Zac does not seem to be banned, however. Why is Sylux getting a ban and Zac just an extended mute? As far as I can tell, both are a part of the problem.
Is Sylux in the right here?
Definitely not. The fact that he made binds to specifically annoy that Zac guy is wrong and should not be condoned either. Comments like "zack if you pay me 20 keys i can teach you basic death match" are not helping Sylux's case either. I agree that Zac is definitely not in the right either, but it's just unnecessary on both sides. Someone should have tried to defuse the situation.
What should be done?
First things first I want to make it very clear that I am not speaking on behalf of anyone else. This is my own opinion and you can disagree with me all you want, but don't blame it on others if you do.
I think Sylux's ban should be reduced. I am curently not sure whether we should make it a day (or just unban him by the time this thread is closed) or a week. Looking at his past history, I can understand how some people want a longer ban, but I am not sure if a ban from 11 months ago that was not merely for disrespect is much of a reason to make it a week. This is something that higher ups need to discuss privately before coming to a conclusion.
However, a month is in my opinion too long. Zac on the other hand should either receive a day ban or a very clear warning.
And I want to shoutout @ThunderLimes for making quite useful posts. Good job (y).

We did discuss this issue after the Brian thread actually (just not publicly), though IIRC the consensus was that we should have the punishment match the offense as opposed to some arbitrary number of months that the bans stop counting after.
 
That said, with regards to reducing Sylux's ban, it has been nearly a year since he was last banned and it was for abuse of calladmin/disrespect not trolling and harassment like the current one. However I cannot just ignore his history of inflammatory and disrespectful behavior. So, my proposal is that we reduce his current ban to a week and replace the month punishment with a silence.
With note to @Sylux, stop being such a rude boi to people, it gets you nowhere good quick. Also, other people being part of a problem does NOT make it ok to continue causing it.
 
As for Zack, I would appreciate a proper ban request thread where we can have all of that information in one place to be its own focus of discussion.
Aside from getting his own ban request thread, I have heard that there is some amount of favoritism towards Zack who by most accounts is given much leniency and was only given a day mute. That would be fine if Sylux had gotten a day mute recently prior to this incident, but he didn't. As it turns out Sylux hasn't had a day mute in over 2 years! (from presumably Rejects since SB says the admin was deleted) It seems to me like somebody forgot to mute Sylux for a day or more before jumping to bans. We are given the ability to mute people for more than 30 min for a reason, don't ignore that when it is convenient towards the end of banning people you don't like.

For what feels like the millionth time, I am going to have to disagree with the Weasley twins here
+1 for removal/shorten of the ban
+1 to ban Zack for the same time
To avoid saying the exact same thing in this thread for the hundredth fucking time I'm just gonna give the gist of it. Sylux argued and was perhaps a little toxic, but his last bans were last year.
Zack is constantly being a salty man child in-game whining when things don't go his way and starts pointless arguments with everyone. How has this guy not been banned before????? Sometimes I wonder how well the staff team is holding back bias ?

I'm going to say it how it is Elcark, I don't like you and I never have and you don't like me and never have it's clear. You are good friends with zack because I joined tgh went it was just 3 players you and zack being on a team to start popluating the server. Even when he was flaming my team mate you both just casually laughed it off and you have always stuck out for him. I could argue with you forever about how he is the instigator and locals who saw would agree and you can argue forever that I am the instigtator and you have your furry friends to help.
 
I do believe i was never kicked or muted for any part in the zack situations, maybe if I was defending val but I can't see when I was kicked/gagged for zack discussions. :thinking: Again you can just make up your side like the 'following' situation when infact me and queen went there to duel because we were tired of his tgh rage, you will always say nono zack said this or no i saw this etc but at this point it's clear it's just a grudge. You are a DM and you have this bias, you are thinking for your friends first over the conrete facts and are doing all you can do to oppose it. There is a reason people are saying they just took zack's bullying :whistle: For the final time i'd like to state he was muted several times by mute client side when he was just flaming as there is little to no point when you just want to frag. 'clearly has a history of this kind of behavior. If his previous history had consisted of just the single day ban mentioned for similar behavior then this time frame would clearly be out of the quest' you are ignoring the history part still, honestly this is one of the most frustrating discussions as people are not listening.
 
As you stated lets not let this spiral out of control, which you claimed earlier but still replied even though I didn't to help de-escalate it all.

Zack wasn't banned he was only gagged for 24 hours

I remain neutral on the main sylux situation, however +1 for an extension to Zack’s ban because, although like @Elcark said he wasn’t acting the same in this situation, he’s had way too many instances of toxicity and instigating in the past without punishment past gags and mutes.

Unfortunately, I only remember being told about that whole "alternate account racism" thing but don't exactly remember what happened or if it was even really his alt. The last ban you got for disrespect or "trolling" was last year, and that was only a day. Don't exactly understand the jump to a month ban, even if he had older bans for longer. As for Zack, I do know he's quite the toxic guy when he is on the server. I am honestly surprised in you guys only giving him a gag instead of a ban as well. From what I read there was a warning and it stopped there, so I don't exactly know why you guys did jump to a ban as quickly as you did without even kicking him beforehand. I do feel as though there is some unfairness in how the situation was handled, even if Sylux has a "history", Zack should be punished exactly the same.
 
+1 to drop the ban to at least a week, if not completely.
+1 to punish Zack with the same length, they're both in the wrong and should be treated with the same punishment for fairness.

Alright, first things first, Sylux you've been a troublemaker for as long as I can remember. If you look at your ban history, you have bans from several old staff members, first of which dates back to 2014. You clearly haven't seemed to have caught on within those 3 years, we've been very lenient on you with bans from the looks of it. -1 for unban, when people ask you to stop using binds for the sole purpose of agitating them, then have some respect and knock it off. Now I could be completely wrong, I haven't actually been on the server with you for a long time, so you may have improved, may not have. Maybe cool it on the servers a little bit and stop being so passive aggressive towards people, even if the things you say are just whatever to you some other people could take it the wrong way.
 
Now on the situation of Zack, if what you say is true then there's definite favoritism going on in terms of him not being punished in the same way you have been. I get Zack hasn't been banned before, but if hes gonna be on the server stirring up problems with people and the mutes clearly aren't doing anything to help, then something needs to change.
 
 

We get that Vexx is a DL and you are an admin and I have utmost respect for that, but if there is literally no proof at all of these conversations/research then we can't base your claims as a root for punishment, or at least we SHOULDN'T.. As in the case of an actual court, unless there is evidence then nothing will happen and you lose the case, and some of the things you say could be considered slander. Now I know this isn't court, but doesn't this feel a little onesided? I would love to take your guys' word for it, but that would be unfair, as much as I'd hate to say it.

Thanks winslow brother 2, but again year gap is still a long time think of the changes you were faced over 2 years (especially sam) :thinking: 'Multiple issues' since the last ban however I have not been banned for such thing? The bind was only posted after he immediately joined and shit talked me and my friend for being there - if you are claiming his ban - sorry his mute is justified because of 'he had been in trouble notably less than you have' that is complete aids and is favouritism at it's maximum fitness.

Division:

Team Fortress 2 In-Game Name:

Sylux Identity:

STEAM_0:0:26489939 Ban Type:

Server Ban Information:

After being recently banned for 1 month for 'Trolling, harrassment' by @Elcark , for what is in my opinion unfair reasoning I attempted to add elcark on steam as I'm aware they don't fully understand the situation...however I was rejected so I'll make a ban protest instead. Following suit a ban request on 'Zack the shako'.
 
After stomping a player called zack the sharko on the local server of hyrule as soldier (y) he became agitated and aggressive on the mic, which I replied too. His main critque was that my grandparents are dead (strange insult if i'm honest as it's false) in which, i replied 'lol yours are the same', this provided me with the best response I have ever seen from someone online which he replied in chat after 5 minutes of voice crying: '
Scalie Zack the Sharko : My grandpartents could easily kick your fucking ass kid' which is probably the best quote in the world which has been designated as my '[' key.
 
Now this key gets pressed a fair bit when typing simply because it's next to my enter key and I love it. Zack has demanded across the server once that I can't use it even though he does it to other players... example(s):
 
Val - reknown good player on the servers the exact type zack get triggered by - DEAD Scalie A shark : Oh boy kid cunt val is here
He says this as val joins, is this not harrassment exactly what zack says I am doing? :thinking:
 
Spoopy - a great demo player another prime target for zack's rage -
'EAD Scalie A shark : What
Scalie A shark : That smurf
Scalie A shark : Or cheats
Scalie A shark : Spoopy
Server Mod Spoopy : ?
Scalie A shark : Look at shadowkillers profileScalie A shark : 1 hour
Server Mod Spoopy : and?
Scalie A shark : And hes getting headshots Ez Pz
Server Mod Spoopy : so
shadowkiller296 : are you angry ?
Scalie A shark : IE
Server Mod Spoopy : its called being good
Scalie A shark : SUre'
 
Some random dude who changes his name a lot -
Scalie A shark : Months of not playing still can't beat me on a one on one
 
I'd like to talk about my ban now - 1 month remember that, for 'trolling,harrassment' by elcark. Firstly in the rules there is no mention of not being able to have binds, sure if you had a bind of straight racism or homophobia that is different but in my instance this is a direct quote. If you are directly this quote to any rule it has to be disrespect - exactly what zack the sharko does when he plays. When entering the server he will usually shit talk all players yet still direct it towards me, I just ignore it after it it's a game. When I press the bind after his vocal littering he goes berserk calling all admins such as @Kypari and @Krampus immediately after the bind is pressed claiming it's not fair to use the bind even after his unprovoked shit talk. Another interesting point is the warning system, I was not warned about using the bind before the 1 month ban was placed. The only warning i received was from Krampus asking for me and zack to shut up, which after getting my point across and zack not listening i simply muted him. However I was informed he was still talking shit even after being muted and asked if he was on local chat and bam, muted! That mute is kind of justified as krampus was just trying to stop the situation escalating anymore, after that mute took place zack cursed and went off.
Further more, my ban was 1 month and the furry friend who is immune to the full consequences of his shittalking actions due to his furry friend admins only received a 1 day mute. :whistle:
Lastly I want to talk about zack's approach to justify why he can 'legally' shit talk me and other players on the server. He claims others are 'harassing' him by killing him and not talking by using the in game taunt system, for me however I was 'harrassing' him by 'following' him to the pokemon server (which i am in the top 10 players for and play there with queen) :D after getting bored on tgh. :thinking:
 
Interested in hearing others' opinions on the matter please post any response below!
Tagging the people i believe are involved for their input
@Elcark @Kypari @Krampus

I think @NiGHTS is referring to another conversation i had with him like a week before this one. I don't recall him asking but its not impossible that he did. Either way, it would be quicker for him to google how to do it instead of arguing with me about it.
 
I think this case is done and dusted. @NiGHTS will lose their xG membership and also be given a warning for his behaviour on our servers. I would advice that you cut down on the chat a bit, if you do decide to stick around.
 
@Aegean @Rhododendron feel free to add onto this if you find it necessary.
 
~closed

I always report people when they annoy me, but virr never explained me how Demo's work so i can record mic harassment. If he actually put some effort into explaining, i would not have raged harder. And everytime i report a person, nothing really happends with those people. There are people on Xeno that keep harassing people while staff members arn't on. I once reported one, and the fellow staff didn't care about that. No again, i really like to drop this and carry on. Just get rid of my xeno tag or anything i am no longer in the mood for this.