unbanned Brian - Team Fortress 2

[MineCrack 62]

@Vexx

 

So did you even look at the ban reasons? Spoiler you didnt, you are a moron.

[MineCrack 62]

If you're going to bring up a persons ban history, then the content of the bans do matter.

 

The *procedure* does not matter when almost all of the bans are bogus (hell, there are plenty of cases where your *procedure* is not even applicable). Feel free to try and figure it which of the bans are legitimate. Based off of your post and others, no one has actually investigated. It is very easy to sweep things under the rug when you don't particularly like a person, unfortunately that won't work.

[Aegean 849]

@Vexx from the tf2 admin handbook that you wanted me to edit.

 

Warn, then slay/mute (sometimes optional), then kick, then ban [WSKB] [/Quote]

 

He admits himself that he did not react to his warning, so he knows he might not have seen it. Regardless he went to asking you for a month long ban immediately. If we are gonna blindly follow our ruleset, and he went with a warning, should he not have done a kick as well before requesting a month long ban? Or does he get to choose which steps he can follow?

 

When you get to the point where you have to ban them, make sure to use your common sense for how long the ban should last. Don't permanently ban a guy for mic spamming. Mute him and if he continues ban him for a few hours.

[/Quote]

 

Common sense should hopefully be not banning someone for a month over a name stating admins are badmins. Common sense should also be to ask the individual for their side of the story and not blindly following admin ban requests, especially from someone who is known to blow things out of proportion.

Edited August 10, 2017 by Aegean (see edit history)

[Vexx 112]

@Vexx from the tf2 admin handbook that you wanted me to edit.

 

 

 

He admits himself that he did not react to his warning, so he knows he might not have seen it. Regardless he went to asking you for a month long ban immediately. If we are gonna blindly follow our ruleset, and he went with a warning, should he not have done a kick as well before requesting a month long ban? Or does he get to choose which steps he can follow?

 

 

 

Common sense should hopefully be not banning someone for a month over a name stating admins are badmins. Common sense should also be to ask the individual for their side of the story and not blindly following admin ban requests, especially from someone who is known to blow things out of proportion.

Well you are right, I should have gotten more to the story before putting in the ban, but I figured I'd do it because sourcebans wasn't working anyway, and @Kypari is one of my staff which of course I will trust him in most situations. As for @Brian's ban, I will propose we drop the ban down to a much lower time, as sure, a month ban may seem a bit much in the event he did not see his warnings. In the future though, please try to pay attention to chat in the event this comes up again. There's really no middle ground when it comes to warnings, we can't do voice because someone may have their sound muted, and we can only count on the user paying attention to the chat when it does come to warnings. When it comes to the time we should lower it to, I will propose we lower it to a week. The user in question still had the intention and a history of instigating our staff on the server, and I feel it would be completely unfair for us to drop the ban completely.

Edited August 10, 2017 by Guest (see edit history)

[Brian 50]

Well you are right, I should have gotten more to the story before putting in the ban, but I figured I'd do it because sourcebans wasn't working anyway, and @Kypari is one of my staff which of course I will trust him in most situations. As for @Brians ban, I will propose we drop the ban down to a much lower time, as sure, a month ban may seem a bit much in the event he did not see his warnings. In the future though, please try to pay attention to chat in the event this comes up again. There's really no middle ground when it comes to warnings, we can't do voice because someone may have their sound muted, and we can only count on the user paying attention to the chat when it does come to warnings. When it comes to the time we should lower it to, I will propose we lower it to a week. The user in question still had the intention and a history of instigating our staff on the server, and I feel it would be completely unfair for us to drop the ban completely.

 

 

To which I reply that there has been no prior history besides some actions I was already punished for. A week ban for not seeing a message is still too excessive, especially when the only evidence submitted was outdated evidence including stuff I was punished for, and a name change punishment that I didn't recognize at the time.

[Aegean 849]

Well you are right, I should have gotten more to the story before putting in the ban, but I figured I'd do it because sourcebans wasn't working anyway, and @Kypari is one of my staff which of course I will trust him in most situations. As for @Brian's ban, I will propose we drop the ban down to a much lower time, as sure, a month ban may seem a bit much in the event he did not see his warnings. In the future though, please try to pay attention to chat in the event this comes up again. There's really no middle ground when it comes to warnings, we can't do voice because someone may have their sound muted, and we can only count on the user paying attention to the chat when it does come to warnings. When it comes to the time we should lower it to, I will propose we lower it to a week. The user in question still had the intention and a history of instigating our staff on the server, and I feel it would be completely unfair for us to drop the ban completely.

 

That's fine with me, I'm fine with a ban to a day as he never got a kick warning. A month is excessive. I will also add a few more things here before this thread is closed.

 

Staff shouldn't deal punishments based on the words of other players

Unless you saw an offender breaking rules yourself, you should not do anything about it.[/Quote]

 

You seem to be disregarding your own rules in your guide, if the guide is supposed to be followed blindly and we shouldn't take matters into context, you automatically broke the rules by banning brian without getting his side of it. Why tell me to edit the thread about non-existing rules from me telling the staff to use common sense and try to not ban someone for a month after a week ban that was years ago, and then break the rules you're telling me every staff is supposed to follow? Another thing too, if a verbal or text warning gets ignored, a kick is a perfectly fine solution. Kypari choosing to warn but not kick automatically implies he is choosing which rules to follow and interpreting it his own way as your guide says to kick after a warning (depending on the situation of course).

 

I'm at least glad this issue is coming up now so we can get it resolved for the future. Aside from that, I have been and will talk to Brian about his behaviour, and I will have a thread + discussion with not only the higher ups, but also our community on changes that clearly need to be addressed.

Edited August 10, 2017 by Guest (see edit history)

[Rhododendron 994]

At the end of the day, he didn't really do anything serious enough to get banned. He didn't target anyone specific and it wasn't a personal attack against anyone (no idea about the context of the whole situation but still). Honestly the ban should just be removed and we move on from this since I don't like the idea of people banning others simply for poking fun at xG. It makes us look like a community that wants to censor people which we shouldn't ever become.

[MineCrack 62]

Let's get this straight...

 

The solution here for a ban appeal on someone with a very minimal ban history, and a rich history of being a great staff member is to week ban him for a name on a server.

Not only that, his name wasn't even offensive, it was just Admins are Badmins. Are staff that fragile that a name criticizing you is warrant of a week ban? Ridiculous.

 

The fact this needs a ban is childish, the fact @Vexx or @Kypari didn't investigate anything is ridiculous.

[Kypari 579]

At the end of the day, he didn't really do anything serious enough to get banned. He didn't target anyone specific and it wasn't a personal attack against anyone (no idea about the context of the whole situation but still). Honestly the ban should just be removed and we move on from this since I don't like the idea of people banning others simply for poking fun at xG. It makes us look like a community that wants to censor people which we shouldn't ever become.

The guy literally comes on just to insult people and it's not just poking. He's in trouble for a reason.

[MineCrack 62]

The guy literally comes on just to insult people and it's not just poking. He's in trouble for a reason.

 

Why didn't you investigate the bans? You seem to be acting very irrational right now.

 

This ban is by far one of the most ridiculous threads I have seen in years.

[Kypari 579]

Why didn't you investigate the bans? You seem to be acting very irrational right now.

 

This ban is by far one of the most ridiculous threads I have seen in years.

I did? How did I not investigate it?

[MineCrack 62]

I did? How did I not investigate it?

 

Wrong, go look at my first post.

[Vexx 112]

That's fine with me, I'm fine with a ban to a day, not . A month is excessive. I will also add a few more things here before this thread is closed.

 

 

 

You seem to be disregarding your own rules in your guide, if the guide is supposed to be followed blindly and we shouldn't take matters into context, you automatically broke the rules by banning brian without getting his side of it.

Why tell me to edit the thread about non-existing rules from me telling the staff to use common sense and try to not ban someone for a month after a week ban that was years ago, and then break the rules you're telling me every staff is supposed to follow? Another thing too, if a verbal or text warning gets ignored, a kick is a perfectly fine solution. Kypari choosing to warn but not kick automatically implies he is choosing which rules to follow and interpreting it his own way as your guide says to kick after a warning (depending on the situation of course).

 

I'm at least glad this issue is coming up now so we can get it resolved for the future. Aside from that, I have been and will talk to Brian about his behaviour, and I will have a thread + discussion with not only the higher ups, but also our community on changes that clearly need to be addressed.

That is the words of players Aegean, Kypari is one of my staff. He knows what he's doing usually, and in the event sourcebans was working, he would've made the ban instead of me and nothing would have been changed. If I can't go on the word of my staff on the servers, how am I supposed to make an unbiased decision on most of what I am doing? I already said you were right, I should have gotten the other side of the story, but I will still in the end trust my admins with these sort of situations.

Let's get this straight...

 

The solution here for a ban appeal on someone with a very minimal ban history, and a rich history of being a great staff member is to week ban him for a name on a server.

Not only that, his name wasn't even offensive, it was just Admins are Badmins. Are staff that fragile that a name criticizing you is warrant of a week ban? Ridiculous.

 

The fact this needs a ban is childish, the fact @Vexx or @Kypari didn't investigate anything is ridiculous.

It doesn't matter if someone was once a great staff member, they should still be punished like a normal user nonetheless. I'll agree that yeah, a bit of criticism isn't bad, but if your entire intention for being on is just to start a shitstorm with the current staff online, why have that user around? As has been stated many times, Brian has had a history of insulting users and staff and has been quite toxic as of late.

[Kypari 579]

Wrong, go look at my first post.

So basically I did investigate it.

[Brian 50]

As has been stated many times, Brian has had a history of insulting users and staff and has been quite toxic as of late.

 

[Citation needed]