Forest

Not sure what the status is on this whole thing, but I just wanted to bump this thread in case it slipped through the cracks as I still believe a user-friendlier experience is key in an increase in regulars and activity @Aegean

Not sure what the status is on this whole thing, but I just wanted to bump this thread in case it slipped through the cracks as I still believe a user-friendlier experience is key in an increase in regulars and activity @Aegean

You fools. You stupid, crazy fools.
Do you realize what you have done? You have effectively opened the floodgates to them all; this will be the end of vouching as we know it.
The structure and integrity of vouches have been buried alive, and I can hear the collective whispers of the damned as the time draws near.
They are coming. You have doomed us all.
The uprising of the "+1 cool guy" is at hand.
 
All jokes aside, I'm pretty skeptical about the new system. I never really saw a problem with the old system where upon reaching 10 positive vouches, the applicant was accepted (where any negative vouches would reduce the total positive) after 24 hours of receiving the final 10th vouch. I completely understand the idea behind this movement, but exclusivity at the cost of getting 10 vouches didn't [and still doesn't] seem like some impossible feat. It gave Players something to work for (as opposed to a generalized ratio of positive to negative vouches which is in effect now) and they could see in real-time where they were at in the review process in terms of monitoring their positive vouches.
 
I personally feel that quality is far better than quantity, and that's what we got when letting Players in to represent Xeno Gamers as a full-time Member through the old system. It ensured that we let quality Players in, not just any Player off of the street, and it gave Xeno Gamers this sort of respectable air around it. Joining Xeno Gamers felt like an honour (to me at the time) and so it felt great to receive all of the vouches I did because I worked hard for them and was rewarded for my efforts by receiving a full-membership. The number of vouches not only gave the community an idea of who the Player was, but it also enabled the Higher-Ups to formulate an opinion themselves because, more often than not, it would take weeks to get in at a time. It gave a decent buffer time for Higher-Ups and enabled them to weed out any Players they deemed 'not worthy'. 2 days just seems too few to really judge a Player.
 
That all being said, if the end-goal is quantity > quality, then it's certainly more effective in that aspect. However, this is all just personal opinion, it's just good to see an active interest from the Higher-Ups in improving Xeno Gamers in any way :coffee:

You fools. You stupid, crazy fools.
Do you realize what you have done? You have effectively opened the floodgates to them all; this will be the end of vouching as we know it.
The structure and integrity of vouches have been buried alive, and I can hear the collective whispers of the damned as the time draws near.
They are coming. You have doomed us all.
The uprising of the "+1 cool guy" is at hand.
 
All jokes aside, I'm pretty skeptical about the new system. I never really saw a problem with the old system where upon reaching 10 positive vouches, the applicant was accepted (where any negative vouches would reduce the total positive) after 24 hours of receiving the final 10th vouch. I completely understand the idea behind this movement, but exclusivity at the cost of getting 10 vouches didn't [and still doesn't] seem like some impossible feat. It gave Players something to work for (as opposed to a generalized ratio of positive to negative vouches which is in effect now) and they could see in real-time where they were at in the review process in terms of monitoring their positive vouches.
 
I personally feel that quality is far better than quantity, and that's what we got when letting Players in to represent Xeno Gamers as a full-time Member through the old system. It ensured that we let quality Players in, not just any Player off of the street, and it gave Xeno Gamers this sort of respectable air around it. Joining Xeno Gamers felt like an honour (to me at the time) and so it felt great to receive all of the vouches I did because I worked hard for them and was rewarded for my efforts by receiving a full-membership. The number of vouches not only gave the community an idea of who the Player was, but it also enabled the Higher-Ups to formulate an opinion themselves because, more often than not, it would take weeks to get in at a time. It gave a decent buffer time for Higher-Ups and enabled them to weed out any Players they deemed 'not worthy'. 2 days just seems too few to really judge a Player.
 
That all being said, if the end-goal is quantity > quality, then it's certainly more effective in that aspect. However, this is all just personal opinion, it's just good to see an active interest from the Higher-Ups in improving Xeno Gamers in any way :coffee:

Good idea. If we do, it will most likely be after we figure everything out (membership ranks, how to advance, etc).

Was a good run...
 

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because i have been on the severs since i joined.

I believe he was referring to the fact that because TF2 is free, people can make spoof accounts when an account gets banned. No sense in adding people when you know you'll eventually be caught for hacking after all, hence the high-rate of accounts being used for hacking with little to no friends.
 
That being said, there's a reason why the Admin Handbook (while outdated) has/had the following rule in place:

Not everyone shares the same perspective which can result in situations such as this, which is why it's important for there to be multiple Staff to witness the event. Obviously there are exceptions, but nonetheless it's still a good rule of thumb, especially if lag is a common occurrence.

I believe he was referring to the fact that because TF2 is free, people can make spoof accounts when an account gets banned. No sense in adding people when you know you'll eventually be caught for hacking after all, hence the high-rate of accounts being used for hacking with little to no friends.
 
That being said, there's a reason why the Admin Handbook (while outdated) has/had the following rule in place:

Not everyone shares the same perspective which can result in situations such as this, which is why it's important for there to be multiple Staff to witness the event. Obviously there are exceptions, but nonetheless it's still a good rule of thumb, especially if lag is a common occurrence.

I believe he was referring to the fact that because TF2 is free, people can make spoof accounts when an account gets banned. No sense in adding people when you know you'll eventually be caught for hacking after all, hence the high-rate of accounts being used for hacking with little to no friends.
 
That being said, there's a reason why the Admin Handbook (while outdated) has/had the following rule in place:

Not everyone shares the same perspective which can result in situations such as this, which is why it's important for there to be multiple Staff to witness the event. Obviously there are exceptions, but nonetheless it's still a good rule of thumb, especially if lag is a common occurrence.

@Forest
Silence and I had a ton of discussions about this aspect, and we did come to the conclusion after looking at other communities that our bar for membership was too high in the beginning. We did not want our community to be like "the old boys club" where if you don't know the right people or don't talk enough in servers you can't get in.
 
We still value input from our members, but we do not want the reasoning of someone not standing out enough to be the reason they do not get into xG, and to find another community that accepts them with open arms. I know there's pros + cons to either way, but we feel this way has more pros than cons as it's easier to get rid of bad members, than it is to bring in quality members who might be shy. As virr mentioned as well, people will still need to be standout members to get staff, and also we will provide way more giveaways + events to glorify the members who are active in our community. Once our traffic is much higher in our community, and people are applying at a much higher rate, I'm sure people will visit the forums more often to give vouches towards players as that'll be a good way for them to increase forum count to apply for mod if that is their goal. Considering all things being said, I think it'll be a net gain that we will realize within a few months, especially once summer hits. I never have any issues with discussion so no need to apologize.
 
I edited the membership guidelines thread again, Virr rewrote it to make it much simpler and cleaner and I forgot to edit the 2 day part in.

+1 has mic

You fools. You stupid, crazy fools.
Do you realize what you have done? You have effectively opened the floodgates to them all; this will be the end of vouching as we know it.
The structure and integrity of vouches have been buried alive, and I can hear the collective whispers of the damned as the time draws near.
They are coming. You have doomed us all.
The uprising of the "+1 cool guy" is at hand.
 
All jokes aside, I'm pretty skeptical about the new system. I never really saw a problem with the old system where upon reaching 10 positive vouches, the applicant was accepted (where any negative vouches would reduce the total positive) after 24 hours of receiving the final 10th vouch. I completely understand the idea behind this movement, but exclusivity at the cost of getting 10 vouches didn't [and still doesn't] seem like some impossible feat. It gave Players something to work for (as opposed to a generalized ratio of positive to negative vouches which is in effect now) and they could see in real-time where they were at in the review process in terms of monitoring their positive vouches.
 
I personally feel that quality is far better than quantity, and that's what we got when letting Players in to represent Xeno Gamers as a full-time Member through the old system. It ensured that we let quality Players in, not just any Player off of the street, and it gave Xeno Gamers this sort of respectable air around it. Joining Xeno Gamers felt like an honour (to me at the time) and so it felt great to receive all of the vouches I did because I worked hard for them and was rewarded for my efforts by receiving a full-membership. The number of vouches not only gave the community an idea of who the Player was, but it also enabled the Higher-Ups to formulate an opinion themselves because, more often than not, it would take weeks to get in at a time. It gave a decent buffer time for Higher-Ups and enabled them to weed out any Players they deemed 'not worthy'. 2 days just seems too few to really judge a Player.
 
That all being said, if the end-goal is quantity > quality, then it's certainly more effective in that aspect. However, this is all just personal opinion, it's just good to see an active interest from the Higher-Ups in improving Xeno Gamers in any way :coffee:

I suppose it makes sense, but at the same time it just feels like the bar has been set too low to gain full-membership. It's worrisome because what if a Member Application only receives one positive vouch that is simply "seen him around on servers, he's pretty fun +1" during that two day period, with no negative vouches or anything? As the rule currently stands (assuming this is the polished final product):
 

 
It just seems like this system is heavily dependent on those who vouch immediately on a Member Submission (based on the fact that the applicant will be accepted, not can be accepted), which is either incredibly rare, or the vouches themselves are no where near detailed enough. With the way it is currently set, the Guidelines seem to put a lot more emphasis on why someone shouldn't be permitted to gain full-membership instead of why they should be. That being said, it isn't inherently bad or anything. It just feels less like a Member Submission and more like a minor hurdle to jump over; just barely one step over what someone has to do to join the Xeno Gamers Steam Group. Also, just for the sake of debate, I'm only voicing my concerns, not trying to step this whole thing into the ground. Apologies in advance if it seems that way.
 
Annnd just thought I'd mention this: not sure if this was intended, but the Guidelines thread doesn't highlight the whole "2 day processing time" anywhere in it. That, or I'm blind af.

I suppose it makes sense, but at the same time it just feels like the bar has been set too low to gain full-membership. It's worrisome because what if a Member Application only receives one positive vouch that is simply "seen him around on servers, he's pretty fun +1" during that two day period, with no negative vouches or anything? As the rule currently stands (assuming this is the polished final product):
 

 
It just seems like this system is heavily dependent on those who vouch immediately on a Member Submission (based on the fact that the applicant will be accepted, not can be accepted), which is either incredibly rare, or the vouches themselves are no where near detailed enough. With the way it is currently set, the Guidelines seem to put a lot more emphasis on why someone shouldn't be permitted to gain full-membership instead of why they should be. That being said, it isn't inherently bad or anything. It just feels less like a Member Submission and more like a minor hurdle to jump over; just barely one step over what someone has to do to join the Xeno Gamers Steam Group. Also, just for the sake of debate, I'm only voicing my concerns, not trying to step this whole thing into the ground. Apologies in advance if it seems that way.
 
Annnd just thought I'd mention this: not sure if this was intended, but the Guidelines thread doesn't highlight the whole "2 day processing time" anywhere in it. That, or I'm blind af.

I like the new changes and definitely think making it easier to get in is a good thing. My only concern is that two days might be a little short. The percentage of our playerbase that checks forums daily is pretty low, so not very much of the community is going to be involved in the process in that short of time.
 
But my suggestion, that would help whether we increase the time frame or not, is to start pushing the forums alot harder than we already do on the servers. Not just in chat, but in the middle and on the side of the screen (atleast in tf2 not sure how other games would work).
 
As @Forest said, our community has until now been very selective, with a high bar to be accepted, and that's worked, but if we're going to change that we can't just make it this thread and higher ups running the changes and done. We need to commit to raising traffic total for this to work at it's best.
 
 
Buckle up for the member protest section to be more than just the after thought it's been for years ;)

You fools. You stupid, crazy fools.
Do you realize what you have done? You have effectively opened the floodgates to them all; this will be the end of vouching as we know it.
The structure and integrity of vouches have been buried alive, and I can hear the collective whispers of the damned as the time draws near.
They are coming. You have doomed us all.
The uprising of the "+1 cool guy" is at hand.
 
All jokes aside, I'm pretty skeptical about the new system. I never really saw a problem with the old system where upon reaching 10 positive vouches, the applicant was accepted (where any negative vouches would reduce the total positive) after 24 hours of receiving the final 10th vouch. I completely understand the idea behind this movement, but exclusivity at the cost of getting 10 vouches didn't [and still doesn't] seem like some impossible feat. It gave Players something to work for (as opposed to a generalized ratio of positive to negative vouches which is in effect now) and they could see in real-time where they were at in the review process in terms of monitoring their positive vouches.
 
I personally feel that quality is far better than quantity, and that's what we got when letting Players in to represent Xeno Gamers as a full-time Member through the old system. It ensured that we let quality Players in, not just any Player off of the street, and it gave Xeno Gamers this sort of respectable air around it. Joining Xeno Gamers felt like an honour (to me at the time) and so it felt great to receive all of the vouches I did because I worked hard for them and was rewarded for my efforts by receiving a full-membership. The number of vouches not only gave the community an idea of who the Player was, but it also enabled the Higher-Ups to formulate an opinion themselves because, more often than not, it would take weeks to get in at a time. It gave a decent buffer time for Higher-Ups and enabled them to weed out any Players they deemed 'not worthy'. 2 days just seems too few to really judge a Player.
 
That all being said, if the end-goal is quantity > quality, then it's certainly more effective in that aspect. However, this is all just personal opinion, it's just good to see an active interest from the Higher-Ups in improving Xeno Gamers in any way :coffee:

You fools. You stupid, crazy fools.
Do you realize what you have done? You have effectively opened the floodgates to them all; this will be the end of vouching as we know it.
The structure and integrity of vouches have been buried alive, and I can hear the collective whispers of the damned as the time draws near.
They are coming. You have doomed us all.
The uprising of the "+1 cool guy" is at hand.
 
All jokes aside, I'm pretty skeptical about the new system. I never really saw a problem with the old system where upon reaching 10 positive vouches, the applicant was accepted (where any negative vouches would reduce the total positive) after 24 hours of receiving the final 10th vouch. I completely understand the idea behind this movement, but exclusivity at the cost of getting 10 vouches didn't [and still doesn't] seem like some impossible feat. It gave Players something to work for (as opposed to a generalized ratio of positive to negative vouches which is in effect now) and they could see in real-time where they were at in the review process in terms of monitoring their positive vouches.
 
I personally feel that quality is far better than quantity, and that's what we got when letting Players in to represent Xeno Gamers as a full-time Member through the old system. It ensured that we let quality Players in, not just any Player off of the street, and it gave Xeno Gamers this sort of respectable air around it. Joining Xeno Gamers felt like an honour (to me at the time) and so it felt great to receive all of the vouches I did because I worked hard for them and was rewarded for my efforts by receiving a full-membership. The number of vouches not only gave the community an idea of who the Player was, but it also enabled the Higher-Ups to formulate an opinion themselves because, more often than not, it would take weeks to get in at a time. It gave a decent buffer time for Higher-Ups and enabled them to weed out any Players they deemed 'not worthy'. 2 days just seems too few to really judge a Player.
 
That all being said, if the end-goal is quantity > quality, then it's certainly more effective in that aspect. However, this is all just personal opinion, it's just good to see an active interest from the Higher-Ups in improving Xeno Gamers in any way :coffee:

I was going to type something longer to explain our reasoning, but @Aegean covered some of it in his post. I'd just like to add;
 
The issues we were having with the old system was that a lot of people didn't really understand the purpose of the vouches which in addition to the guidelines being a complete mess (which has now been fixed) led to confusion in a lot of cases. A lot of applications never really met the old requirements (which was 7 for TF2, 3 for CS:GO) which was really disheartening and a lot of people give up after their first member application being denied.
 
Members who put in extra work to be stand-out members of the community will still be recognized and rewarded when we flesh out the member hierarchy properly. We feel like this in addition to badges (which are being finalized probably some time this week) will bring a bit of bling to members that really put in that extra mile to make xG a better place for all of us.

Totally understand where you're coming from, but just look at the member application section of the forums. Look how many members have applied but have not even gotten a vouch. They probably won't come back to the forums, and just because you're shy and don't talk a lot does not mean you are not a quality member. Unfortunately, the vouching system just to gain membership only allows outgoing players who are good at making friends join the clan very quickly, and pretty much keeps away anyone who might not use the mic or talk a lot in servers. I want xG to be a place where people who are accepted and become a member can gain new friends, and come out of their "shell" so to speak, where they start making friends and enjoy a warm community. As a few others have stated, we do have member protest section and we can always use it (:

You fools. You stupid, crazy fools.
Do you realize what you have done? You have effectively opened the floodgates to them all; this will be the end of vouching as we know it.
The structure and integrity of vouches have been buried alive, and I can hear the collective whispers of the damned as the time draws near.
They are coming. You have doomed us all.
The uprising of the "+1 cool guy" is at hand.
 
All jokes aside, I'm pretty skeptical about the new system. I never really saw a problem with the old system where upon reaching 10 positive vouches, the applicant was accepted (where any negative vouches would reduce the total positive) after 24 hours of receiving the final 10th vouch. I completely understand the idea behind this movement, but exclusivity at the cost of getting 10 vouches didn't [and still doesn't] seem like some impossible feat. It gave Players something to work for (as opposed to a generalized ratio of positive to negative vouches which is in effect now) and they could see in real-time where they were at in the review process in terms of monitoring their positive vouches.
 
I personally feel that quality is far better than quantity, and that's what we got when letting Players in to represent Xeno Gamers as a full-time Member through the old system. It ensured that we let quality Players in, not just any Player off of the street, and it gave Xeno Gamers this sort of respectable air around it. Joining Xeno Gamers felt like an honour (to me at the time) and so it felt great to receive all of the vouches I did because I worked hard for them and was rewarded for my efforts by receiving a full-membership. The number of vouches not only gave the community an idea of who the Player was, but it also enabled the Higher-Ups to formulate an opinion themselves because, more often than not, it would take weeks to get in at a time. It gave a decent buffer time for Higher-Ups and enabled them to weed out any Players they deemed 'not worthy'. 2 days just seems too few to really judge a Player.
 
That all being said, if the end-goal is quantity > quality, then it's certainly more effective in that aspect. However, this is all just personal opinion, it's just good to see an active interest from the Higher-Ups in improving Xeno Gamers in any way :coffee:

You fools. You stupid, crazy fools.
Do you realize what you have done? You have effectively opened the floodgates to them all; this will be the end of vouching as we know it.
The structure and integrity of vouches have been buried alive, and I can hear the collective whispers of the damned as the time draws near.
They are coming. You have doomed us all.
The uprising of the "+1 cool guy" is at hand.
 
All jokes aside, I'm pretty skeptical about the new system. I never really saw a problem with the old system where upon reaching 10 positive vouches, the applicant was accepted (where any negative vouches would reduce the total positive) after 24 hours of receiving the final 10th vouch. I completely understand the idea behind this movement, but exclusivity at the cost of getting 10 vouches didn't [and still doesn't] seem like some impossible feat. It gave Players something to work for (as opposed to a generalized ratio of positive to negative vouches which is in effect now) and they could see in real-time where they were at in the review process in terms of monitoring their positive vouches.
 
I personally feel that quality is far better than quantity, and that's what we got when letting Players in to represent Xeno Gamers as a full-time Member through the old system. It ensured that we let quality Players in, not just any Player off of the street, and it gave Xeno Gamers this sort of respectable air around it. Joining Xeno Gamers felt like an honour (to me at the time) and so it felt great to receive all of the vouches I did because I worked hard for them and was rewarded for my efforts by receiving a full-membership. The number of vouches not only gave the community an idea of who the Player was, but it also enabled the Higher-Ups to formulate an opinion themselves because, more often than not, it would take weeks to get in at a time. It gave a decent buffer time for Higher-Ups and enabled them to weed out any Players they deemed 'not worthy'. 2 days just seems too few to really judge a Player.
 
That all being said, if the end-goal is quantity > quality, then it's certainly more effective in that aspect. However, this is all just personal opinion, it's just good to see an active interest from the Higher-Ups in improving Xeno Gamers in any way :coffee:

I plan on implementing the same structure Morbus has since TTT is relatively similar.

Map changes happen after X rounds and Y minutes. (depending the map)


Improvements to karma - to curve RDMing for fewer server bans.
Attaching higher level mathematics for a better equation.
 
Restoration of karma after each map change.




Implementation of spray bans to remove server bans for this purpose.


Usage of the current crystal loading screen.
Xeno Gamers




Higher moderation standards with an emphasis on conflict resolution.
Not just looking at logs and slaying and banning people.
Additional moderator training where required.




Continuing the tradition of optimizing server content for faster downloading.


Preloading at least the five or six most popular maps for less downloading.
Only mounting the preload for downloading when one of it's maps is being played.




Sending all content over steam's workshop CDN and disabling the FastDL.
The GMA compression is much stronger and CDN results in faster downloads.




Stronger map voter algorithm that ensures many maps get played, not the same ones constantly.


*The ability for moderators to block users from abusing map triggers, instead of banning them.*
Where supported on a per map basis.

It is done

Bring back ZE/ZM god damit