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If you're honestly going to leave over 1 player being unbanned, that just shows where your loyalties are. You clearly don't care about the community as much as you preach if you would leave over a player very harshly (and unjustly, given the lack of evidence) banned no longer being banned then do us all a favor and leave now anyway. thanks. :) In the end, the decision is with the CLs, regardless of what the poll says. But I want to make sure they read the above, because that's the cold hard truth of the matter. [uSERGROUP=23]@Community Leader[/uSERGROUP]

I usually am able to glide along with a sentence pretty nicely but am having trouble starting this thread off. Cause i'm not really sure what i'll say, that being said i'll start it off with that. So.. Things i'll be discussing. My current stand with the clan, what happened and why I was unbanned. My apology to @Tekage and others I have offended in the past couple of weeks, even months I've been back. A quick statement before I begin this. I know there are alot of you that don't agree with what I say, and how i conduct my self, and how I behave, in a "safe forum" that should not be riddled with drama. Especially someone as "toxic" and as blatant I am with my constant disrespect, and that's okay every one is entitled to their opinion(s). If you don't see eye to eye with what I say in the rest of this thread, I'm sorry I couldn't make you change your mind about me. Moving forward. @Tekage ... ugh. Words.. man you know? What I've said to you and what I've done to you is completely unacceptable, I have been nothing but rude to you and for what reason? Cause of a video I saw you made on your thoughts of xG and why you are leaving? What right did I have to do that, I did not even know you, Nor do I even know you now. You seem like a pretty fine guy, and it was just me being me. Short tempered, angry, and a troll, for no apparent reason, and for that i truly am sorry for the things I've said and done to you without a reason. It was entirely unjust and unsanctioned for me to even begin to rag on you.. And with that being said, I was giving one last chance by @Hidingmaster so with that being said a day long ban for what I've done to you for how many chances I have been given is not right, And I would like you, if okay by other community leaders. Is to pick a ban time for me, Let it be 1 week, 1 month, 1 year. I feel like you have earned that right, for going through the trouble of actually taking care of what I've done by creating a ban request on me, I only see it just. With that being said I would also like to send you the private conversation I had with @Hidingmaster explaining my self to him. To furthermore help with your decision. so @Tekage check your forum pm's when you finish up this thread. @Kypari .................................................................... Back to that statement i had earlier, "glide along with sentences" This is a hard one. I don't feel as if you deserves a full blown apology more so an explanation? f*ck it idk. What I said to you on steam, is pretty as "heartfelt" I can get with you, That being said there is a few more things i'd like to say to you.. There is some really really hurtful/toxic things I have said to you that has gone unnoticed let it be in the shoutbox or older threads. And for those I do apologize I should never be allowed to tell someone to off them self just cause they don't agree with what I've said, so kypari. I'm sorry. @Community leaders @Chrono @Nomulous Boys you are the backbone to this clan you're the glue that holds it in place. You are what keeps us running in a sanctioned manner. And I know myself alone with the forum sh*t that I pull is pretty hard to deal with knowing as I have been here a long time, and no one wants to be "that guy" that bans me since I'm pretty good friends with all of you. I'm sorry for how hard I can be to deal with, as I have came to this clan at a much earlier time, as some did you. Where the clan was not nearly as defensive and more so an open environment for people to troll and d*ck around, cause we were a smaller community. As the years passed xG grew, did it grow in a good way? or bad way? That's an unanswerable question. Yes cs:s is what this clan grew on what defined it as a clan,and is gone now, but it also grew exponentially in tf2 over the past couple of years, and is now self sustainable through ad money alone, with maybe a few hiccups here and there. Yes we have lost some great co-leaders along the way, @Aegean @Neo , But also found new ones and ones that have been loyal and as helpful as possible. So boys where am I going with this rant? Cheers to you for giving me the chances you do, and allowing me to stay in the place that defined my online personality back in 2010.

First off I wanted to give a heads up that I am writing this post on my phone so there will probably be some mistakes bear with me please So on the topic of vector. I personally stand by the ban 100%. Vector and I have a bad history he chased me off the XG: Gaming history server. At the time it was my main server. I had a long history on it and actually met my Fiance on it "not a normal online relationship she is in the middle of immigrating to the US and the K1 visa process has started a house has been purchased and everything is inline for us to be married so it is a real relationship for the record) now back on track. At the time my fiance and I played on XG every day and enjoyed it during the early days of our relationship. Well one day vector just started going off at me for liking mlp and was a total ass hole. At first I figured it was a one time thing but jt ended up being every day he would mess with me go out of his way to kill me and just make being on the server a pain. After about 2 weeks of this I left XG and never touched it again. It was not till later Chicken panda and I became good friends that I began to try XG again. It was not till I heard about his demotion that I started to go on again. Since his removal XG has improved leaps and bounds and is a fun server again. I try to go on when I can and when I do it is always great anx an enjoyable time with our people going out of their way to give me a hard time. The sky is the limit for XG and with vector being permanently banded the server will become better than ever. People like vector hold servers like XG back. That is my personal opinion you can take it or leave it but I wanted to make sure I could help influence XG to become a better and greater server chain and ensure dead weight like vector can not hold back the growth of the server.

So i was grounded for 3 weeks thanks to bach's entire teamspeak going full blown autistic and talking about german sausage dildos or someshit. Anyways i will get on when they are not home but right now my activity is going to be slashed to shit. No more german sparkle parties for me Special thanks too: @Bach @Whyte @DeKoi @Liekos and @ChickenPanda for those lovely german accents that made my mom think i was talking to a gay german porn hotline. (I can still work on the MC server but it will be slower but should be out on time.)

Alright. All this has gone way further than it ever should have. If you don't know what, its two things: 1) Rabid being permanently banned. 2) The "toxicity reform", especially the point where Vector got permanently banned. I'd like to put a little opinion out there regarding the issue, hopefully to clear up confusion from those not directly involved, and to shed a little light on to the problems I see. Let me start with the fact that this whole situation should have never been allowed to continue this far. What happened originally is that someone started a thread with Nom and Silence regarding some members they though were not conducive to a friendly environment. Eventually all CLs and other staff members were added to the conversation; a total that now stands at 12 people. A discussion commenced about the list, stating who we though should and shouldn't be on it. To makes things clear, I clearly defended Asock and said I didn't think he would be a problem anymore. I actually went on to repeat that he wasn't a problem numerous times. (BTW, this is for those that think I was biased when banning him permanently; I honestly was defending him from being banned.) It was mostly a dialogue between me and some Tf2 staff, some other CLs (but not all) very briefly discussed the list that was posted. First issue I have is that the thread was posted without any planning behind it. We were discussing the list, I got offline, then just hours later it was posted. There was no punishments planned, nothing was figured out except that we had a tier of people. This was by far the biggest mistake in my opinion; anyone remember what happened when Darkwolf was told he was getting banned (Hint: abuse.). Why we would post a thread saying numerous people were in trouble, and not take immediate action is beyond me. Fine. What happened happened. So we start talking punishments. We essentially come to a conclusion that tier 1 will be permed from everything. It wasn't until sunday that we finally got around to figuring out bans and actually handling them out. It was stated that vector and iggy were getting permed, yet not one person said anything about it. So, then another issue arises. Asock and warrior start pushing the limits on the forums. I look into it a little, but just brush it off.. its Asock, I mean you gotta be a little more understanding that its just his personality. I say in the convo that its a perm or nothing for Asock, because I have warned him MANY MANY times. So, someone posts Asocks comments in shoutbox basically saying his goodbye to xG. He knows he crossed the line, so I went ahead with the perm. (BTW, nobody responds regarding the issue of Asock for 12 hours which is why I went ahead and actually did something). Within minutes of me stating that he was permed.. of course everyone gets an opinion. Another bunch of useless arguing gets nowhere regarding Asock, so we return to Vector. Alright, so second thing that really annoys me. We now have a) Some CL's voicing their opinion days later, and how it was uncalled for that we banned Vector. (Seriously? We went over this, and not one of you guys had an issue). b) We have TF2 staff members threatening us by saying they are leaving, bob the plumber is gonna leave, etc if Vector gets unbanned. Even one of them saying they found a replacement for their Staff position if Vector gets unbanned. (Threatening us? Seriously? Can we just maturely discuss the issue?) So if you haven't caught on yet, or maybe i'm just ranting and terrible at explaining what I'm getting pissed about its the following: People aren't voicing their opinion until after a decision is made. Here's where they say I wasn't on to see the convo; well, it went on for more than 24 hours. Had the thread not been rushed out like a news story then we would of had time to properly talk about things. Stop threatening CLs that people are leaving. We get it. It won't influence our decision. Why? Because that would be unfair, we need to find the just punishments not what you all personally want. Cut the crap. EVERYONE. Good lord, I have CLs getting angry, div leaders/managers getting angry, people still insulting each other and not letting them have opinions, what the hell guys. "1. The CL's want to keep an old friend just because he has been here awhile." - I DON'T CARE IF ITS MY BEST FRIEND FROM HIGH SCHOOL. Maybe everyone else is biased but i dont give two poops who I am ever banning/defending, I try to be fair. So don't group everyone in the same boat. And regarding the evidence rule. Could we go ahead and allow some common sense to be substituted for evidence in rare circumstances. I don't go around recording every moment of every conversation someone has, its not fair or right to do that. But common sense tells me who has acted poorly for a long time. Now, to end it im going to publically state my personal opinions on both Asock and Vector's bans. ASock: Yes I defended him. Yes I then banned him. I've personally dealt with him numerous times in the past, actually permed him once before. Some how it was lifted, without any discussion as far as I was concerned. Why was he permed that first time? He was 100% harassing and bullying me. It was like 2am and nobody was on, he mad me feel like shit; so I took actions into my own hands and permed him. Pretty appropriate for what he was saying. But fine, they unbanned him, we talked and I let him know he had no more room for error. I actually began to respect him for turning around and being much more community oriented. But, he knew he was on his last warning and he broke rules. Whether or not he instigated it or not, it was retaliated and he knew better. Vector: Again, we discussed it, issued bans and it was fine for a little bit. But then some CLs decided now it was a good time to have an opinion. No we have to deal with the consequences of being unprepared. I think he should stay banned, and maybe, just maybe have a chance to be unbanned in the distant future. I won't be for unbanning him, I see no reason to change my point of view. Sorry about novel length post, but sometimes you gotta show everyone what the hell is going on for things to get fixed. And because someone will take this post as rude or disrespectful, thats not the intention. I enjoy everyone in this clan, but at this moment some of my opinions highly differ and the lack of communication between everyone has create numerous problems that I highlighted. And i guess since I am criticizing a lot of things, if you have criticism for me feel free to leave it; I actually don't mind listening to the community for ways I can help be better/make better choices. But be prepared to have a rebuttal twice as long.

For the love of god, change the functionality of the comment(s) box @Rhododendron . It clouds over text like you wouldn't believe, and makes it that much harder to read the content of any post. Isn't there a way in which you can minimize it so that it isn't displayed, much like how it used to be at one point? Mind you, if there already is a way and I'm an idiot, disregard this thread and tell me how. Example: You'll notice that it's near impossible to read the underlying text behind the comment(s) box, even though it is transparent.

Dang this thread is hella funny. Some of the people who wanted him to stay banned previously stated he kept the servers alive on his own. Anyways I don't have a lot to say right now, but he probably shouldn't have been permed randomly out of the blue.

You know, if you see somebody being disrespectful like this, you can ban them before it gets out of control? Do you not know how to use admin powers? If he keeps doing it, extend the ban. +1 for unban. It's not his fault you allowed him to continue this behavior without repercussion. Now, he should still learn that this isn't OK. Maybe change it to a week ban. Otherwise, ban him if he gets out of control, or just report him to a higher up and let them take care if it. A few warnings with no temp. bans then perm for messing around is WAAAY to harsh. I even looked at the bans to make sure. Most of the bans are @diabeetus saying "beef flaps" and are for 10 minutes on CSS, not even TF2. There's only two for TF2, and they were back in 2013. Do you want a guide on how to be a big boy too? How to change your own underwear so mommy doesn't have to? This circlejerk is actually disgusting. 20+ members would leave if ONE person was banned? Good riddance. The point of being an admin is to be unbiased and moderate the servers without having an opinion, negative or positive, about the people you're watching over. This proves if anything that most of the TF2 division is too immature if they leave because one bad man says bad things. Boo Hoo. Get over it. You're supposed to be the mature one, not the one crying over it.

Im not going to sugarcoat my opinion about this issue. Vector has long been a thorn on the side of the tf2 division and community using every nook and cranny every loophole to harrass and and disrespect people.

Is this legit. If so, that has got to be one of the best reasons I've seen for someone getting grounded.

I have the ultimate solution. @Kypari [spoiler=Only click this if you're Kypari] @ASock [spoiler=Only click this if you're Rabid/ASock]

Allow me to make a public apology. My post was not very well worded, as I should have stated that we were discussing the possibility of Vector being unbanned. The way I wrote it, it made it seem as if we had decided that Vector was indeed returning. That was in bad wording on my part. Sorry to have put that connotation on you. I also want to apologize for only receiving half of the truth. I WAS under the assumption that a few of the CLs (None in particular really, just a few of you) were in support of unbanning Vector. It was only until later when I re-read through the entire conversation that I realized that nowhere was it proposed to unban him completely. I allowed myself to jump to that conclusion due to the hot passions that were heavy last night in the Teamspeak channel. So, to you and the other @Community Leaders, I do apologize for having that be conveyed. You guys rock at what you do. I know our voices are not unheard. I know you all have the best intentions in mind when making these huge decisions. I don't want to step on toes or make it perceived that I believe you guys are doing anything ill for the group. I believe the exact opposite. The threats of people leaving the clan due to Vector's unbanning, I believe, were also probably in part to the misconception that we were deliberating completely unbanning Vector and having him return immediately. You can probably understand how that might make a few people upset. But, I think that better understanding on our parts would have helped avoid that miscommunication. So, to you all, I apologize. I will be diligent and more attentive in these future discussions, and work towards conveying my messages in a more clear manner.

I'm still confused on why we banned him in the first place if we're going to undo it. I suppose in @Forest we trust :^) And regarding the mass of people leaving, lets face it. We're pussies. :^)

just because the effect of him being banned is something you think is 100% positive doesn't always make it good, or right? Keep in mind when I started that post-chain trying to get him unbanned, it wasn't only vector. it was everyone there. Like him or not, if you aren't going to present evidence, then there really is no reason for him to be banned. forest's compromise is something not even I would agree on, because he would still be (wrongfully) banned on servers, note: I say wrongfully because much like in teamspeak last night where you all started to see it, there is no legitimate evidence of anything more recent than about a year ago where a decision was already made to demote him. is he gonna get staff back? probably not anytime in the near future. I could gather all my friends, say stop coming on TS for a few weeks, and then claim @ThePenguin scared us away with his mexican-ness. and until he sees justice we wont return. but that just isn't how it works. now if I were to record penguin's disgusting over the top mexican-ness driving us away and present it as evidence, maybe he would be banned, and @Bleed would be safe to go on TS.

Well, as someone who is in open fire at the moment for past decisions. I'd first like to say. I really don't see how any one could have negative criticism for you, even my self how could I just not respect you now. You have done nothing but handle your problems with the powers given to you the way you always have, Fair, and unbiased. You are extremely lenient, but know exactly when to be strict. I don't mean to come off as "appreciative" either, what you did for me giving me another chance(chance after chance after chance), and openly admitting you stuck out for me after what I've said/done to you, That doesn't even deserve a thanks, that just deserves respect. I do however have to apologize for letting you stand up for me even knowing you did not have to, and then f*cking it up... Really do feel sh*tty about that.

While I do understand why he was banned, I don't find that a [permanent] ban on the spot was necessarily justified without prior notice. Vector's behaviour and attitude is certainly volatile and unacceptable, and I can see why so many are against his unban, but to jump the gun to a permanent ban seems excessive. With that said, I propose a compromise that I feel is fair to both parties; those for the unban and those against. I suggest that Vector be unbanned only from Forums for the time being while remaining permanently banned from Servers. During this period, Vector will have the opportunity to show the community that he can produce a community-friendly attitude that doesn't involve overly-hostile or discriminating remarks. With that said, Higher-Ups will need to monitor his behaviour and attitude. This is a crucial step. This will ensure that if he is not able to keep a calm air around him on Forums after being given a chance, then the only choice will be to permanently ban him. After a noticeable improvement in behaviour, an appeal for an unban from Servers can be made where the community will determine whether he is ready to represent XenoGamers on it's Servers. This will obviously require the co-operation of the community as well, including those who have had.. Turbulent times with Vector. Simply put, do not [intentionally] harass, instigate, or provoke him into slipping up. It isn't easy to make a change in attitude, so don't [try to] give the guy a hard time. At the very least, try to put aside your differences and give the guy a chance. To clarify, this is all just an opinion. Take it with a grain of salt :coffee:

I honestly don't care, Vector can be honestly a very cool guy but at the same time he can be unnecessarily penisy. Tbh i'd rather have him on the forums than on the servers infact I don't even mind if he's on the forums, if he starts more crap just ban him again. And js if you never played Team Fortress 2 with Vector while he was an Admin and had seen how he treated people on the servers, you really can't say :poop: about him coming back to tf2.

I personally am caught in between a rock and a hard place in this dilemma. On one hand, I once considered Vector a friend. Like others, I have seen his declining attitude and demeanor, but he has never really done anything to me PERSONALLY that would make me want to never speak to him again. I do see how his mannerisms are hurtful and toxic, so I understand the outcry to keep him banned. I feel that it's for the better of the clan that he stays banned, but at the same time, I don't want to be the guy to make that decision. Luckily for me, I don't seem to be alone in feeling this way. Also, I'm stuck in the position that if Vector DOES get unbanned, practically ALL of the people I call friends in this clan will leave. Where would that leave me? Being one of the only higher-up staff that remains after a mass walk-out? Can't say that sounds too appeasing to me, to be completely honest. If I had to make the choice, I'd say to keep him Permanently banned from all servers and services, then in a couple of months, unban him from forums to give him a chance to make a new Member Request. IF he can prove he has changed, that is.

I am one of those who will leave if vector is unbanned for multiple reasons. I used to respect vector as a "random" on TGH but now he is just someone i would rather never see again. He is disrespectful, has told people to kill themselves, and overall a horrible representative of the Xeno Gamers clan. Yes, his ban does seem a bit harsh but in all honestly the ban was for the better for the servers and the community. His unban will just prove 1 of 2 things. 1. The CL's want to keep an oldfag just because he has been here awhile. 2. The CL's think the ban was harsh not not fair.

I don't think this warrants a removal of powers, or should even apply to his server powers, so -1 on removal of powers. I will also say that a forum warning or short ban is founded in this case. Since we're all being open and honest now though, I will say the concerns in this thread are valid. @Kypari , some of these issues do affect you and how you do your job on the servers. You have always done a good job as a moderator, and have never given me, or the previous tf2 higher ups, any reason to remove your powers. Still though, you've been mod for probably longer than any of our other mods, and still haven't been promoted. You do your job as mod well, but these attitude issues, most minor, some major, are the reason you've stayed just mod. You have a chance for improvement here, it doesn't help you, the division, or the clan if you disregard the valid criticisms in this thread.

So lately I've been playing a lot of other games other than TF2, including CS:GO and some other things with people in TeamSpeak, and I haven't been playing TF2 at all lately because it has gotten really boring to me personally. I haven't been wearing my tags much either recently, I guess I thought I could hide my responsibility if I couldn't see it. I realize I won't be allowed as staff again for at least two years or more, but by then, I'll hopefully have matured enough to represent our servers and actually maintain activity to be considered a valid moderator. It was fun moderating the TF2 division's servers, I'll still get on occasionally and maintain my current activity on TeamSpeak, thanks for your time and understanding.

Fixed. The entire addon is a mess, I need to recode it this summer. Would only take a day :P

my feels after this post http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HBgn3pStmw

April 29, 2015 - TF2 Team Added ETF2L 6v6 Season 20, ETF2L Highlander Season 8, and ETF2L Ultiduo 5 medals

Edit: Not to dredge up past threads, but I spent like the past hour composing this proposal and wanted to put my thoughts in, but the thread JUST got locked before I could post it. If a decision has already been reached, whatever. Just wanted to voice my opinion. Lock this thread also if you deem it necessary. Alright, so based on the comments in this thread, it seems that many are in favor of a server ban, but divided on a forum or TeamSpeak ban. Apparently most of my thoughts have been voiced already, but I'll put my two cents in anyway. Just hear me out before you downvote my opinion. Many have threatened to leave if Vector is unbanned. Geez guys, do you really think that will make any difference? (I think @Chrono @xGShadowSpy @Brian @diabeetus know what I'm talking about.) I know most of you have a stake in this community or you've been burned by Vector before, but if you really care about xG then you'll stick it out regardless of who gets banned or unbanned. Personally, I think an unban of this caliber will show who the *real* Xenogamers are, but I'd rather not start that firestorm at the moment. I've played on the Pokemon Trade Server on and off for about 2 years, basically since I started playing TF2. Vector has been a butthole for quite a while, but he was still a great admin. He didn't cut corners or play favorites -- if you broke the rules he would mete out punishment accordingly. (Sure, he'd be a dick about it, but it's not like most of those guys didn't have it coming.) So even though he acted like a little turd sometimes after he was demoted, it's not like he's a paragon of evil. Geez. We all know that his behavior been tolerated for too long. He should have some kind of punishment. But a universal permban out of the blue isn't the way to do it (@Dethman @Flareon @Waimalu). I know Vector's history and I've seen his current behavior, and despite all the crap I think he deserves another shot. I think @Forest has a great proposal and I'm behind it 100%. I also agree with @Chrono and @Moosty in that 1) we need to go through the proper ban procedure (i.e. get evidence BEFORE we ban him) and 2) he needs time to cool off before we give him another shot. That said, and bearing @Forest's suggestion in mind, I have two (maybe three) proposals in mind. Both of these have been posted in one form or another already, but I'll add them anyway for convenience and clarity. The first is that we just unban him. No, I'm being serious. In this case, the staff will monitor his behavior closely, and the rest of us will treat him with respect. Don't incite him or make him lash out, but don't tiptoe around him or treat him like a pariah. Just be cool about it. If he starts something that is in fact ban-worthy, we submit it as evidence in an official player report and he's gone for good. Simple as that. The second proposal may be an easier pill to swallow for everyone involved. Treat this situation as we do an ex-member who is reapplying for membership. (A good recent example is @Vaporeon's application. Check out @metalslug53's post here: Vaporeon - Team Fortress 2 | Page 2 | Xeno Gamers) Give him a month to cool off, then unban him on the forums and let him submit a ban protest. The third proposal is kind of a combination of the two. He remains banned, but his sentence is shortened to a month. Once that time is up, he is unbanned on TeamSpeak and on the forums -- on "parole", so to speak. He can submit a ban protest or whatever, I don't really care. If he shows positive social improvement, we'll consider his ban protest and make a decision whether or not to unban him on the servers. Again, he's got only one shot at this, but we give him a legitimate chance to show improvement (see proposal #1). This whole process is kinda like "rehab" for him. If he makes us regret our decision, he gets thrown back in the can. He might shape up if he knows he's got a life sentence facing him if he doesn't. Personally, I like the third option. I just throw all these out there for you all to consider. If you have a better alternative or want to tweak one of my proposals, I'm all ears. I just think a permban simply based on past offenses isn't right. Think about it. In any justice system in real life, do we take reformed criminals and toss them back into jail just because they committed a crime a decade or two ago? No. Do we convict suspects based only on eyewitness accounts or public opinion? No. I think the same logic should be applied here. Hope you guys make the right decision. ~Hero

Before anyone gets all up-in-arms about me doing this, I have the approval from our fearless leader. As many of you have already heard, there are rumors floating around about Vector possibly being unbanned from all xG servers and services. I am here to put those rumors to rest. Those rumors are all true. We are currently working to find a suitable solution to this scenario. SOME of the CLs believe that Vector was unjustly banned because he has only received a single forum warning for his actions. They feel that his Permanent Ban was too harsh of a move. They think that it is unfair that he was banned and does not receive a chance to submit a Ban Protest. So, when the word got out that he was being unbanned, MANY MEMBERS have openly stated that they would leave the clan if he is indeed unbanned and makes a return. The number of members and staff is impressively high. So, Silence requested a poll be made so the community could voice their opinion. Should we unban Vector, or keep him away? Is his presence good or bad for the whole of xG? Please voice your opinion by voting. Also, leave any comments (In a respectful way) below. I'll have it know that I will not tolerate this thread turning into a shitstorm. Any disrespectful comments will be removed and your forum account will receive a ban for an undisclosed amount of time Thank you.

A decision was reached, and Vector's in-game ban will be reduced to 6 months (meaning he will be unbanned on November 1st, 2015). Additionally, Vector's forum ban will be removed. However, this does not mean that Vector's behavior both on the forums or in-game (when his ban expires in November) will be tolerated by any means whatsoever. During the next 6 months (and additionally when his in-game ban is up) Vector will be under a strict probationary period. If there appears to be no noticeable difference (or possibly even a worsening of) his excessively belligerent behavior, Vector will be permanently banned. Basically, if he keeps up the kind of behavior that has been observed recently, he will be permed. Keep in mind that attempts to instigate or harass Vector in order to get him into reacting in a way that could result in him getting banned will be punished accordingly. Lastly, make sure that if you see something that you would consider to be evidence of excessively negative behavior, take down some kind of evidence. Whether it's recording a demo, taking a screencap of chat logs, it has to be something concrete. Banning people off of hearsay (not matter how truthful it may be) isn't optimal and leads to a lot of future confusion, especially in the event of a ban protest. Trying to remove negative/toxic behavior in xG is going to be an incredibly lengthy journey, and will be a process that cannot be accomplished solely through the efforts of the higher ups/CL's of xG. While sometimes it may not feel like it, we're trying to listen to the community as best as possible while trying to preserve our own values as well. I personally apologize for the chaos that has enveloped the clan in the past week or so, and take responsibility for any and all negative/detrimental outcomes that may come as a result of our recent decisions (including this one). Additionally, I apologize for the apparent flip-flopityness of the decisions of the CL's (Hidingmaster excluded) and the somewhat inefficient method that was used for the carrying out of bans following the posting of the Toxicity Reform thread. In the heat of the moment I think we all just wanted to get something done and didn't really head into it as efficiently and cleanly as we could have. If anyone has any questions or comments, feel free to send me a message on steam or through the forums, or post in the "Opinion on Recent Events Thread" (please try to keep things civil and respectful). ~closed.

Pls no we'll miss you ;-;

Not to make this about me, but I would also like to apologize for those of you who had taken offence to the Criticism thread I had made. The intention was to have those of you who had problems with others to vent it out in a healthy way; through constructive criticism. Unfortunately, there were those whom had taken the content literally and to heart (as an example, this whole ordeal) which provoked an all-out war. It also doesn't help that sarcasm doesn't translate well through text, so it is near impossible to determine when someone is joking if you don't know them well enough, such is the case with Rabid. With that said, I'm glad to see that problems were settled in a civilized manner. There's nothing better than seeing two opposing sides making up and settling their differences. Now, if only this sort of thing could happen far more often rather than having tempers flare everywhere in xG.

The only people who want him unbanned from what I see are the people who never (if not rarely) play on tf2 servers. I wouldn't have much of problem if he is unbanned on forums to prove himself, but on tf2 servers, just no.

proof>"common sense" is just a simpler way to make all bans justified, IMO and really if he is as bad as they make him out to be, if they had joined the server saw him talking crap, and then just start recording a demo then. not necessarily record every second of him, just when they think he is gonna take a turn for the worse. if he really honestly truly is that bad on servers, they would have plenty of evidence in ~15 minutes. edit: also, you could just ban him in server on the spot at the time of him being bad it's still very nice to have the evidence to back up your ban, you know, incase of a protest.

Yeah I'll fix it, but I'll just make it wrap around the text :3

I've got quite a bit to say on this topic. I'll post something later, I'm at work right now and probably shouldn't be texting lol. Just don't go locking this thread anytime soon. :)

In all honesty, regarding people leaving the TF2 divison due to Vector coming back is completely stupid. I like xG, and have seen stupid stuff before, but this sets a new standard.

Too all the people that want him unbanned, I want to ask if you have been on the servers with him recently? My first impression of him wasn't good either. He mostly complains on how bad the tf2 division is but still continues to play on our servers. Not to say most of his responses on the forums leads to shit with someone else.

what?

fucking lightning scares me the fuck out 10 years ago, thunder however is alright, can be annoying at times <3 and he also brushed off my drunken mistakes (sorry) +1 A : 2/10 pretty inactive lately M : 6/10 still getting a +1

I read a few of these posts, and they made me want to throw myself off a cliff, so I'm skipping the rest and posting. Just because ONE person that you don't like gets unbanned, you're going to completely leave? Are you 3 years old? This is what that would show about you if you leave: 1. You aren't mature enough to settle your differences, just talk to the person. If they still don't change? JUST AVOID THEM. He joins the server? Leave. Joins your TS channel? Leave, or blacklist him. Ignore him on forums, block on steam. You don't even need to be around or converse with him. 2. If you will leave because 1 person you don't like is unbanned, you don't care for xG. Pretty much all of the friends I had when I first joined xG are gone, though I have a few newer ones, it still sucks. I still didn't leave. Anyway, I +1 his unban because the only reason a lot of these people are -1ing is because he's "hewt their feewins". Maybe keep a short ban on him, just not perm. ALSO I saw in a post that like"3 dls would leave" ohohoh, like 3 higher ups don't like him? I wonder why he's on tier 1 on the list...

Your parents are racists. You shouldn't judge a porn hotline by its nationality.

Not ALL CLs are wanting him unbanned. Just saying, don't assume just because we all have the position that we believe the same.

you can't use the excuse that he is good on the server when he is bad on the forums. you have to be good on both especially as staff. and there is actual evidence of this behavior.

How many times do we have to say? Kypari is a very good moderator for TF2 and if he got demoted it would literally just cause problems. Yeah, you say "back in the day" but this is NOW. Not the past.

I would not say that. Yes, they don't know the division like a lot of the members but they have been trying to get to know the division and the community and hell they have been playing on the servers a lot and seem to have fun doing it.

Vector is really toxic to the community and Our loyalty is to the community and most CL's don't give a rat's ass about the tf2 division and don't understand what the xG community wants and Assume we're all about drama.

So. I want to make my opinion clear. We should only have ecruteak and goldenrod on the server. Definitely no celadon(we shouldn't have unfinished maps on the server, no exceptions also the creator of the map said it wasn't ready, he knows better than we do), DEFINITELY no saffron (the size of the character compared to the size of the map is disgusting), and no victory road (well made, complete, and looks good, but painfully unbalanced in favor of the defense on the last cap, it was on gaming history rotation, the best team couldn't get the last cap on the worst team, terribly unbalanced) The reason pokemon has stayed populated so consistently for so long with only one map, is because Goldenrod is a 100% complete and polished, and altogether well made map. Adding ecruteak works well, as it is the next town you come across in the game, and the map is complete, finished, and reasonably polished. Adding maps just because they're about pokemon is going to lead us down a path of the server depopulating because people don't like shitty maps. This server is successful because of how good of a map Goldenrod is, and Ecruteak is the only pokemon I've ever seen that came close to being the same quality. Tl;dr: adding anything besides ecruteak is a bad idea because the population was built on a great map, adding maps that aren't as good could only have one result, a population that isn't as good.

I don't know how I feel about this, forcing people to act nice doesn't change the hatred deep inside, if you really want things to change - something else has to be done. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay9BWM8lwOA

Division: Team Fortress 2 Staff Name: [xG:A] Origins Staff's Steam ID: Steam Community :: [xG:A] JohnMadden Evidence: I don't have any, as I wasn't expecting to be kicked Further Information: I was playing regularly on the Pokemon Trade Server, all I was doing at the time was sticky jumping as a frying pan demoman, killing people, and Origins outright kicks me, saying "stop being an ass". I did not break any rules, and I should have not been kicked because of this. Admins/Mods dont have the right to freely kick anyone they wish. I wasn't trying to piss him off, and I wasn't in any way disrespecting him.

Why would he have to lay off other then you telling him? Is it because you were on the other team and your being biased? You're calling him an ass; which is just your opinion. wheres your proof he was pissing off the whole team?

But where does it say that he has to change classes if staff tells him? I understand Staff has final say in things, but in a class someone wants to play? Thats bullshit.

So you kicked him for pissing off a team? That happens all the time. What, your gunna kick everyone who pisses off the other team? Its like when someone camps Frewies room or the radio tower. For some odd reason the other team gets pissed. Now I understand since you asked him to stop and he didn't is why he was kicked. But was it really necessary? What if someone were to sniper spawn camp? you gunna kick him for being an ass?