Bone

On 6/18/2018 at 10:01 PM, james8470 said:

* I forgot to mention that Bone has donated $1010.00 to xG as well, which is freaking insane 

I didn't think I hit that much yet, but still, oof. Guess that means I've finally reached the legendary status of "Paid Non-Member"

6 hours ago, james8470 said:

Like others have said, I wish I knew you better, it just felt like you weren't so approachable. In fact, I always thought something along the lines of "oh I'm just not in Bone's elite friend groups" or "I'm not cool enough to hang with him".

Well that's... not good. I'm actually just a really nervous and shy person, so talking to people is something I'm not really good at. That's even something I'm working on irl.

When I became staff I tried to stray away from being in any kind of group or clique, since I didn't feel it was appropriate to only care about the welfare of one group and not an entire division, and since I feel it supports bias to do so. I've joked a lot about not having friends, but that's kinda how it is. I tried to treat everyone the same, so the only time I really communicated with people was while I was on the servers with 'em, and a bit in Discord. 

So I apologize if it seemed like I was purposefully trying to avoid anyone, it's just that my conversation skills are abysmal. 

I had contacted @Aegean and @virr beforehand to let them know since they already have access to it. The TF2 DLs should also have access to it, don't quote me on that, but they could decide to keep it up (since it's really not hard to maintain), or make it Surf 2: Electric Boogaloo or whatever. It's not really my decision to make though, so you'll have to get more info from the Higher-ups I tagged 

5 hours ago, LemonVolt said:

@Bone wheres the sound file?

I completely forgot about this. It's been almost a year and I still haven't had the time to actually sit down and do it. Sorry

So I'm leaving xG. I bet a lot of you are thinking "Oh boy, here comes some juicy drama", well then prepare for disappointment.

For about a year now, I've felt weird. I felt like something was off whenever I joined and played (what little I could) and I just couldn't pin down what it was. Today, it suddenly came to me, it's not 2013/2014 anymore. The community just doesn't feel like it did when I first started playing, or even when I came back in 2015. A lot of people would argue that xG used to be better. Some would say xG is better now than it's ever been. I just say it's different. It's not any better, it's not any worse, just different. Players and Staff have essentially rotated and have been replaced with newer people, and along with the rotation so has the general attitude on the servers. While that's not a bad thing, it's just not what I grew accustomed to.

For a while now, I've attempted to keep what little of the xG I knew intact, by trying to keep rules the same, revert things to how they were, but realized that I'm the only one who wants it that way. Everyone says they remember when xG was at it's peak, but they'll all give you a different answer on when that was. For me it was when I first started playing, back when there was a specific group of us who would play on VSH. Problem is, the majority of those people are gone now, and due to that I've been becoming increasingly bitter towards the community because "it's not old xG, not how I remember it".

But it wasn't really so much xG changing as it was me refusing to go along with it and clinging to how it was nearly 5 years ago with a completely different group of people. The biggest issue for me though was when @Bello stepped down from DL. Someone who was Staff for as long as I could remember, and someone I considered one of the best Higher-ups we'd ever had in the TF2 Division. For some reason I felt like because of that the community would start going to hell with all these strange new Staff members wanting to come in and ruin the community. This almost made me feel contempt for the community, simply because they wanted to change a few things or acted differently. I couldn't even read half of the discussions on Discord without feeling like I was gonna have an aneurysm. Again, this was essentially me fabricating problems and overreacting to small amounts of drama I'd see unfold, becoming unnecessarily disappointed with our new Higher-up roster for really no reason.

It wasn't until earlier today when I reacted to a post in a way I don't feel I normally would. It doesn't really help the fact that I was also wrong. After re-reading a lot of what I wrote, I realized I was reacting in a way I didn't like, based on the fact I didn't like the Higher-up because we had small issues before and because he's new to his position. So I came to the conclusion that I should simply remove myself from the community before I cause any real issues or divisions. 

I really don't want to leave, since I consider xG to be a bit of a home for myself, as dysfunctional as it may be sometimes, but I can't really have a home I feel borderline disdain for.

I'd like to apologize to @Elcark for essentially telling him that he's not fit for his position while simultaneously being horribly incorrect myself.

I'd also like to thank @virr and @Aegean for just being helpful in general and pulling the TF2 Division out of some tight spots sometimes. For anyone else who may have viewed me as a friend during my time in the community, thank you.

I don't know if I'll ever return to xG, but if I do, I'd hope you guys would welcome me without pitchforks and torches.

Seeya.

15 minutes ago, Vexx said:

I was the one who asked NFO support about the potential ToS violations, they just replied saying "it's not something we could fairly control" or something along those lines, basically saying it's fine if it's in game. Would only be a ToS violation if a website ran through NFO had pornography hosted.

Ah, so I'm just a moron like usual, good to know. 

2 hours ago, virr said:

This is incorrect and i would provide some proof but im in a bit of a rush right now. I can edit this post once i get back home if you'd like. We are NOT responsible for what people spray on our servers, it doesnt affect our status with NFO at all.

Also, lets change the tone a little bit, shall we? No need to be aggressive.

That's cool, my dude. I'm open to correction if needed. 

Also, I didn't think I was being any more aggressive than him, but alrighty 

Edit: Also I've seen posts before in which Rhodo has even said NSFW material isn't allowed on the servers due to ToS, but I may have misunderstood

3 hours ago, Elcark said:

I'm sorry, but you're not on the servers often, and because of that you don't see how they commonly are

Because I'm not very active should be even more proof then. If it's not "common" why is it taking place on the servers the few times I'm actually able to be on? Throwing out my opinion because I can't be active is pretty awful too, btw.

I think you guys are under the assumption I'm here to kill everyone's fun and take away everyone's furry porn sprays, but that's not the case. Allow me to educate you on something you should already know as DL.

See, the entire reason we have our spray rules isn't because the xG founding fathers signed a constitution that said: "Rule 1: no anime tiddies". It's because we have to follow our server provider's ToS, much like how we have to follow Discord's ToS on our Discord server, lest it get incinerated. Which is why we recently nuked our NSFW channel, because people kept posting things against ToS.

Our server host states that we are not allowed to: Publish, transmit, distribute or store content, material, information or data that contains content that is "illegal (including child pornography), obscene, defamatory, libelous, threatening, harassing, abusive or hateful or that advocates violence or threatens the health of others"

So in order to follow the ToS, you have 2 options. 1. Disable sprays so that players don't download data from other clients (or disable client uploads) that contain that content, or 2. Form a set of rules that must be followed so people don't use their spray and transmit material that's possibly ToS breaking to other players.

To be completely honest, if we're going to "clarify" the rules, we might as well use the phrasing that's in our ToS, since that's the entire reason we have the rule to begin with. Just with a few adjustments:

"Sprays, avatars, and customizable items cannot contain content that is illegal (including child pornography, drawn or otherwise), obscene (including pornographic or implied sexual content), threatening, harassing, or hateful"

Sure, it doesn't exactly roll off the tongue, but it's about as long as our current rule. Plus it covers all the bases with the word "obscene" which can mean "pornographic", "lewd", "indecent", or "offensive". Which covers porn (cropped or otherwise), hate symbols, gore, slurs, etc. Rather than "explicit" which can mean "graphic" or "uncensored", pretty much saying porn's ok as long as it's blurred, which is where we are now.

It's either that or we disable sprays entirely.

3 hours ago, Elcark said:

Comparing this to csgo is a very poor example because of the stark difference between the two games in regards to it. Custom images (as near as Im aware) effectively don't exist in csgo where as they are actually prominent in tf2,so it's pretty foolish to assume they would be treated the same across both games when they don't exist across both in anywhere near the same capacity.

12 hours ago, Bone said:

The CS:GO Division doesn't have this issue. You know why? Because CS:GO doesn't have sprays (at least not to the degree of TF2's system).

It's like you didn't read past the second sentence I wrote before you quoted me and used it in a response. 

3 hours ago, Elcark said:

If we disable sprays, then with how this whole situation is treated by extension we can't allow objectors or other items with custom images as well

Objectors and decals are already treated the same way as sprays, and we've had a problem before with Objectors and players (including staff members) using pornographic Objectors so... hey, you might be on to something there!

3 hours ago, Elcark said:

Now I honestly don't understand why one little word, explicit, has caused so much issue for understanding for so many people. Since it has though, ill try to lay it out as simply as possible here. Explicit-obvious-your mind immediately recognizes it as what it is upon looking at it

By this definition then cropped porn sprays shouldn't be allowed whatsoever, because you can definitely tell there's more going on off screen, even if there's no nudity shown.

3 hours ago, Elcark said:

No matter how we try to word what is and isn't allowed though, there will ALWAYS be people trying to loophole and edge what is allowed

 Which is what's happened every time we've "clarified" this rule. It's gonna keep happening. So be ready to come here and type all this again in 6 months when we have to clarify it again.

3 hours ago, Elcark said:

All in all custom images are a notable part of the game itself and just disallowing that part in it's entirety creates a lot of alienation to it as well as a very unwelcoming outlook

 But you know what's really unwelcoming and off putting? Joining a server and seeing spawn covered in cropped porn sprays while a staff member is telling a player that their spray isn't allowed, but this one over is because because it's juuuust zoomed in enough to not see anything.

3 hours ago, Elcark said:

We are people too. We are not perfect, and because of that there will always be at least some variance between us. There will always be situations where "one staff said this but another said this" but it is incredibly important to bring these up when they happen instad of just using them as reason to complain about in consistency. We NEED to know when this is happening so we as staff can come to better understanding of how to treat things amongst each other so we can better serve everyone else.

This is the biggest problem though. The majority of players who have rule breaking or borderline rule breaking sprays are the staff members themselves, it starts with them. Staff members need to be the first to change their sprays and lead by example. Imagine a newcomer or regular seeing a staff member with a rule breaking spray, they're gonna think "Oh, this is ok, because they know the rules pretty well". Until that happens, rewording a rule isn't going to do anything as long as staff refuses to follow it themselves. 

2 hours ago, LAN_Megalodon said:

I mean there's plenty of things we have to go after time and time again even though rules are pretty clear, that's what moderators are for. The solution to "bodyblocking" for instance isn't to just give everyone no-collide or remove every instance of a teleporter within a map, even though it's a rule we constantly have to deal with enforcing. Besides which, I'm pretty sure "nothing explicit" is a pretty concrete one to maintain, although we could certainly go further and make a rule about anything even "questionable", it's just that our new rule as of January is incredibly vague for no real reason. Back when I was mod I didn't ever really even have to question whether sprays were allowed or not because the ruling on it as it was told to me was just not something subjective.  Then we introduced "allowing bulges as long as you can't make out the genitalia" or whatever and it all went downhill.  

The thing is, those rules are black and white. If someone's spawnkilling on Surf, that's a no-no. Another staff member won't show up and go "Nah, I think it's cool man". Same with bodyblocking, it's easy to enforce since it's simply "don't do it".

The spray rules are entirely a gray area. 4 years ago, the rule was "sprays have to be PG-13" it was then changed to: "Sprays, avatars and items that are able to be customized cannot contain the following: nudity, racism, hate symbols, gore, derogatory content and images of sexualized minors (this includes drawn images)". January's version is the same as the second but added the phrase: "no explicit nudity/genitalia"

The "allowing bulges" was never actually a rule, but additions staff members made based on how they personally felt. Which is why nobody knows what the hell is going on and why the rule changes from staff member to staff member. This has happened before, which is why we're here now... again...

I was gonna make this huge long post about sprays and bias and whatnot when an idea came to me...

Here's my suggestion, and I'm prepared to get negatively rated into oblivion for this, but why don't we just disable sprays server wide?

It's been proven, time and time again that players and staff feel completely differently about sprays and their subject matter. Even to a point where I have seen players (some of which are even staff now or were staff) argue with staff members that their spray is allowed since it follows the rules but the staff member personally doesn't believe so (even while another staff member allows it). This has even caused some players to purposefully alter their sprays so they're not "technically" against the rules, but still pushing the lines (again, this has been done by current and past staff members).

The CS:GO Division doesn't have this issue. You know why? Because CS:GO doesn't have sprays (at least not to the degree of TF2's system).

So either we come to a global agreement and clarify rules even more so, which has been tried many times and we still have this issue, or we just disable the spray ability and save TF2 staff another headache they don't need. 

5 hours ago, Donakonda said:

@Bone The GameMode rotation server is broken. 

I'm assuming it was because the server was playing other maps, right? For some reason the mapcycle file didn't update, so I fixed that now.

Unless you meant something else?

This month's gamemode is: Balloon Race!

The server's already updated and ready to go. If there are any issues, either message me on Steam/Discord or post here in this thread

I'd go, but it takes 8 hours just to get out of Texas. The idea is definitely neat though

New vote time! 

https://www.strawpoll.me/15777820

@XHina_sanX unfortunately when I went to set up Tower Defense I noticed there are a few assets missing. However, I'll look into it a bit more and hope that I can find a solution by the next gamemode vote

Well that's... not great... Thanks for your work though. Maybe now you can be a Higher-up on the Minecraft Div 

Thanks for helping the TF2 Div on the level that you did. I know people like to complain that Higher-ups don't do their job, but your time and effort used to help out the servers was very much appreciated 

5 hours ago, XHina_sanX said:

Was wondering if Tower Defense is in the rotation if not I would recommend this: https://steamcommunity.com/groups/tf2towerdefense#announcements/detail/1595831109907713197

Looks interesting. I'll check it out later and if it functions well, I'll add it to the next vote

On 5/9/2018 at 7:20 PM, Kypari said:

I like the idea of the first one the most. The custom weapons also sound really cool and could lead to a lot of new unique weapons to explore and mess around with, though I fear this make take time to set up. The third option would likely lead new players away because of having to bind things, and clearly that's too much effort (jokes aside, I feel people would rather lean towards a server that doesn't require having to bind something). The first option seems simple yet effective

I actually planned on making all the custom weapons myself (first or second option). I have a way of testing them as well before they're added to the server. Although I'd love to see War3 added, needing binds is kinda a problem. Though you can type ult and ability in chat to use them, timing your ult/ability at that point would be pretty dang hard.

On 5/9/2018 at 7:53 PM, Goblins said:

I really enjoyed the system we had tried out last year with building your class throughout each match. Getting skill points to level up rate of fire, damage, hp, and so on.
Rapid fire crossbow medic was beautiful.

It was pretty fun, but it needs a way to limit how many upgrades you can get. Lest we have 5000 HP sonic speed Spies again...

3 hours ago, Johny3Tears said:

@Bone on the jump server commands such as bring are not working. There is also an issue with the ammo regeneration (after changing weapons, it stopped regenerating) and most importantly, the team balance does not work. Jump maps need to have everyone isolated to one team which we cant do on the map so in this case (jump academy) everyone on blue is stuck in an empty room that's not meant for players to see. If you need any help let me know, Id love to pitch in where I can!

Fixed. Added a new plugin. Players are automatically set to RED, even if they choose BLU. Ammo Regen works fine. If you change weapons it may take a second to kick in, or you can always use jm_resupply in chat or console. Bring didn't work because it wasn't on the server, so I added it.

I've never had Gelato, and I can't eat Ice Cream so... my choice is Freezy Pops

Sorry for being a bit late this month. The winner of this month's vote is Jump!

Now, I'm not super familiar with the jump gamemode, but I've added the necessary plugins and a few basic maps. If there's more that needs to be changed/added, just post in this thread or message me on Discord/Steam/Here on the forums

16 hours ago, TBOHB said:

Ok I shall propose an idea to you. Instead of making this forum post calling out the higher ups to the whole community, maybe call in a meeting or something or just say something to them when you catch them online. I can see you took time and effort into making this post, but this post doesn't affect most of our lives. Im not saying I disagree with what you are saying, but maybe bring this matter to the higher ups and not the whole community. (inb4 massive hate spam for an opinion)

I kinda agree with you, but he may have actually tried to reach out to his fellow Higher-ups and they responded the same way as his example in his OP... They didn't...

On the topic of whether or not the rest of the community should be involved... Yeah, kinda. The entire (short) time I was a DM, barely anyone messaged me with concerns or issues. That's because the communication issue isn't alone a Higher-up problem, but a staff problem in general. I can't tell you how many times a staff member has said there's a new rule in existence and Admin/DM/DL ___ told them about it, and it ended up not being true. However, there have been times where it was true and rather than making it publicly and easily known, they just told a couple of people they're buddies with. Like what @Chrono said, groups use their own Discord/other means of communication, and that severely limits the actual audience of their message. Imagine if the Higher-ups formed a new rule, and instead of letting everybody know via the forum news, or Discord announcement channel, they just posted it on their Steam profile.  

Now, I agree that the Higher-ups need to improve on communication, but honestly, all staff members do too. As someone who deals with Supervisors and Employees who don't know how to properly communicate on a daily basis at work, it blows. DMs/DLs are outnumbered by staff and regular players quite a bit, so they can't be expected to get involved with everyone's issues, but they at least need to be approachable and available enough so that staff can feel like they can openly talk to them (and other staff members) about potential issues and concerns.  

I do have to say that I appreciate the way @Elcark handled this. Rather than making a stepping down thread (if he does decide to step down that is) where he just complains and childishly says "You all suck, I've always hated all of you, go die", like has been the trend recently... He made a thread saying he enjoys his position but feels that a ton of improvement needs to take place and feels like he wouldn't be able to stay in his current position if things remain as they are.

All in all, the TF2 Higher-ups need a kick in the butt to have better response times and all TF2 staff in general needs a reminder to keep the lines of communication open constantly.

Since I forgot to add a poll to the OP, here's one instead: https://www.strawpoll.me/15574998

6 hours ago, Elcark said:

I personally like the first and third options, although war3 and it's whole system seems a little to much for something that I feel should be more passively accepted in the gamemode and sounds like it could turn what is a team of players trying to fight a boss into a boss trying to fight a team of mini bosses

Back in the day, about 4 or 5 years ago, I regulared a server that ran War3 with VSH and it works surprisingly well. But yeah, I agree, some of the abilities can be a bit... uhh.. Boss-ish.

About a year or 2 ago, we actually ran a version of the first option I made on our FF2 server. It worked alright, but that was when I first started working and couldn't update the system anymore due to being busy, so we switched back to PlayPoints. I still have a copy of it, but some of the weapons will need to be redone due to TF2 changing attributes during some updates. That's if we decide to use that option though.