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I've already posted this in a different thread, but as a topic that I feel needs attention I am going to copy/paste what I wrote as well as add on a few things. With the amount of people making arguments about bans I wanted to provide my personal input and what I think makes sense. I think that we should keep perm bans PERM if they were banned for a legitimate reason and only unban if they were actually WRONGLY banned. But, seeing as this is xG we love to keep giving people second chances such as when people mass freekill (including members lately). But why do you think they do this? They do it because they know that they will be easily unbanned. Now honestly, if they make a protest in a much later time along the road maybe it can be put into consideration. They won't necessarily be unbanned, but w/ how lenient the clan is the odds are in their favor. However at least at this point they will have already served a time. I just don't get why these days people are considering perm bans optional. If you are permed you are permed, unless the ban itself was wrong then shouldn't any argument be done at that point? Also, not that I am in favor of taking the say away from the community but there's something wrong when somebody who just got permed (regardless of their current position or former position in the clan) can get his friends to +1 with crap saying that "he contributed a ton to the clan". Well that sucks doesn't it? Regardless of what he did in the past, he fucked up and got perm banned. We can't just unban people we like if they broke the same rules others did and were banned for it. What I suggest is, at least in some limited way, to limit the input on ban protests to mods, admins and divs of the respective division. Hopefully, (and i realize it will prolly just lead back to the same +1ing for friends situation) the staff will provide unbiased input in the protest and not simply unban bc they like the person but +1 if the ban was actually wrong. Also forgive my bs grammar typed it on my new phone still getting used to it lol

shut up fegget

sorta what jay breezy said, allow porn sprays (no gore or violent shit ofc), leniency on the rules, wardens can do games that arent in MOTD as long as its fair for the T's, racial slurs allowed, keep it open to non-xg as well, make it after 11 pm EST

yes, its me :3 I haven't been playing any video games for a couple months due to school and my computer breaking... However, I just got a new computer and this friday is my last day of school! Expect to see me on the servers soon friends <3

Division: Counter-Strike: Source In-Game Name: Your mom Steam ID: STEAM_0:1:33324700 Information: This is a ban protest for former admin, Echo. He mass free smited resulting in a permanent ban.

+1 Mythic brainwashed him against his will.

I +1'd this earlier but my post never posted. My reason that, xG gives people second chances. Which I find nice. It helped me not too long ago and I appreciated it. But I also agree with time limits. Whether you have to wait two months to appeal or if you don't appeal within two months the perm stays. Either/or because it might limit the amount of perms actually being undone. That's my two cents. Oh. and I also don't think you should ask for phone numbers. Maybe a video call on Skype or Google or Tinychat. A phone number is too personal.

I would totally edit one in, but I can't edit it any more, which may be a problem for future promos/demos. @autumn as to why we can no longer edit our past posts? I also noticed it only happens after a certain amount of time, unless it's just me. So when you can edit it, you will? :)

Awesome+1 increase the ass and tits by x10 and we got ourselves a new terrorist model.

Exactly. What is so different about this "new" rule. It looks exactly the same as how it used to be.

wasnt this the rule?

Retared me also couldnt find out how to edit. But in all seriousness I believe his ban length should be shortened not immediate. His judgement was clouded and lets be honest a lot worse could have been done.

Alright here's my real input. Echo was a good admin, except sometimes when he was COMPLETELY STONED. I would support reducing the ban to a month or two. It isn't really up to us, it's mainly up to serbian and silence.

-1. While I like Echo it's too soon. Unbanning him now would essentially be allowing someone to free-smite @all with only receiving around a week ban (I think it isn't quite a week yet though). I'm pretty sure that even with Mythic he wasn't unbanned for a while after he smited @all, and he only was unbanned because he used the autistic "get-out-of-jail-free-card", which in my opinion shouldn't be given as a choice to people who hack or do something like this. People have been unbanned for worse, but not this soon from what I've seen personally. Maybe in a few weeks I'd +1, but it's simply too early.

If we want to go on only when the server is empty, then we should be bumping the time back a lot. Like Jordo said, the server is populated sometimes from 10 PM and even later. Also we have to realize as more and more kids are getting out of school, more people are going to be able to stay up much later as there's no pressure from homework. Not only that but in other timezones it's not actually going to be 11 PM (ex: if players on the West Coast hopped on at 11 PM EST, it would be around 8 PM PST), so we can't just count on the time alone to get the server completely empty. The only way I see that happening is by moving the time back to like 1 AM EST, but some people may be too tired to play at that point. Either we put a password on (but make sure everyone who has access to forums can find the password [i.e. making a thread explaining when/what late night jailbreak is with the password on the thread]) or we risk having randoms coming on who have no idea what's happening and will most likely be put off by the abuse/racism/rulebreaking going on (which could possibly result in un-warranted ban requests and abuse reports).

Bias never shrinks as the ranks increase. The opposite proves so. Many of the admins and mods have gotten to a higher stature by appealing to the other mods and admins. You can never truly get rid of bias. Bans should not be permanent, otherwise, we risk losing a majority of our community. Many people who often freekill, or even hack have been able to rejoin, due to an overwhelming sense of community. You are arguing for more of a police state. Granted, it could work, but would limit members. Most of the fun of an admin is competition. Appeals exist for a reason. You knew you screwed up, and you want to appeal for this. It's simple, and I do not comprehend why there is even a glimmer of a thought as to keep permanent bans permanent, given most are freekilling. You are asking for a change of structure and the way the clan runs, from the same leader who can barely keep the integrity of the clan itself in shape as it stands. In theory it could work, but you would lose players, require a major overhaul and look at people's bans. You would need to re-ban other players, some even vital to making the experience the best possible.

@@Forest My name it white text please Lol

putting a password on it seems like a bad idea imo, it basically shuts out regular players that arent in xg and have been playing on our jb longer than other xg members

Sousei , I'm in your boat. ""Personally, I think perm-bans shouldn't even be warranted unless they hacked/ddos'd the server. ""- from above plus fucking one like u say, mass fk = most perm reasons so easy to shoot 3 T's when players first join JB, can't hear warden's mic, etc. not saying dont ban people, but like 3 months ban is enough for them to stay on T for a long ass time and learn rules/ etc/ wish they didnt get fucking permed, while maintaing server population. intentional mass, like when they're standing in a line at cell stairs is the long/perm situation.

@@Flatline

this is because of @@tree's ban protest isn't?

WHY THE FUCK DID I GET FLAMED FOR SAYING THIS ON LAITHS FUCKING THREAD?

Jesus christ you all are autistic. I want to stop this disrespecting shit but when you guys are acting this fucking stupid its impossible. Let me make this clear: I DO NOT WRITE THE FUCKING RULES I just remade the motd to be SHORTER and more UNDERSTANDABLE. Don't disrespect me because of a choice the DIVISION MANAGERS MADE. Do you guys want it changed to: Flash and Smoke Grenades You cannot restrict T's from throwing grenades. CTS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO USE THESE UNLESS IT IS WARDAY OR IF IT IMPAIRs ANY T/CT. T's can also use frag nades and it will not be considered rebel UNLESS IT DAMAGES A CT. ? handing the motd to darkwolf after this. Just because you guys are so stupid.

Personally, I think perm-bans shouldn't even be warranted unless they hacked/ddos'd the server. Correct me if I'm wrong but, if you look at all the latest perm bans it's due to mass killing. It just comes to a line of judgment where people see it not as a fair punishment and a bit of biased judgments. For me, being banned even for a week is a lot. Which I would figure a month ban would be justified rather then a perm ban. I think it would reduce all the headache if you actually give bans where they can change themselves rather then a life punishment and then complaining 3 days later. But rules are rules I guess.

lelxd my naems warrior and I liek to change rulz so i cean remember dem bet4r, and so i nevr hav 2 admit that im wrong evri once an a while, jus like evri othr human being. How about this, let's just change it to how it was before? Was there really any big problem regarding whether or not CT's can fucking thrown flashbangs/smokes/HE grenades? Just use some common sense people, if the CT's are using the grenades at the expense of the T's, slay them (the CT's) for inciting rebellion or hindering T's from completing orders. If a CT is stupid enough to throw an HE grenade and it hurts/kills some T's, then slay/teamban them for freeshooting. Easy as that.

wow fking niggers srsly now i got fucking asshole shitty red bar. WTF I HAD ALL GREEN AND FEW NEUTRAL. Now my fking bar looks like a shitty ass italian flag.

Or just keep perm bans PERM if they were banned for a legitimate reason and only unban if they were actually WRONGLY banned. But, seeing as this is xG we love to keep giving people second chances such as when people mass freekill (including members lately). But why do you think they do this? They do it because they know that they will be easily unbanned. Now honestly, if they make a protest in a much later time along the road maybe it can be put into consideration. They won't necessarily be unbanned, but w/ how lenient the clan is their odds are in their favor. However at least at this point they will have already served a time. I just don't get why these days people are considering perm bans optional. If you are permed you are permed, unless the ban itself was wrong then shouldn't it be done at that point?

Not to hijack the post, but this is something that really really really needs to be done. Set a date where perms may no longer be protested. After that date a perm is a perm, makes our lives a lot easier. And there really isn't a reason to ask for somebodies personal information such as a phone number, kind of uncalled for. (no pun intended)

+1, even though half of you might not know how much older of a player he is, hes been playing xG 1 to 2 years already, his old name was Broseph Stalin. Hes a mature player, ran a division, has few bans. Hes a fun person to play with also. @@Warriorsfury Lets say he DID intentionally do it, without you getting proof of having someone else do it. People have been unbanned from permanent server bans for stuff 10 times worse than this. Yet lets say the person server banned was a friend etc., you would likely +1 them (That is how xG runs nowadays, It thrives off of favoritism, and the most that was done about it ever was removing aegean,even though i do like aegean, he did do that shit). Laith is a good guy, played for awhile, rarely ever broke rules or anything.

JailBreak After Dark, where porn sprays are encouraged and admin abuse flourishes.

dude it's cam4 you guys get gay on camera we make $$$

Warrior got Admin. World's over. ggnore.

*cough cough* hub *cough cough*

Are you fucking down syndrome kid..

@@Warriorsfury Because this way everyone knows. GG fite me. It's really because quite a bit of people were confused about it so I made sure to make it clear to everyone. Also tired of people saying you bent the rules however you wanted, which you didn't.

To me personally, it really came down to the seriousness of the crime, whether mass freekilling or hacking. Mass freekilling I see as a minuscule problem. It interrupts the game for a total of five minutes, causes a small uproar, but mostly harmless. Only resulting in a minor disruptment, one can understand why we're all so eager to unban those people. They don't exactly do anything to the physical copy of the game itself. Plus, few members would remain, as a vast majority of the members have mass freekilled as a joke, a twist, mainly for humor. This doesn't really deserve a permanent ban; rather, it deserves a month ban and a stern attempt to ensure they serve out full sentence. Permanently banning a person from a server for killing an entire team then leaving doesn't exactly ensure they won't doit again. You should merely permanently CT ban them with no appeals, or put them on parole, such as the U.S. Court Systems do. The admins and mods you hold here aren't dumb; they can remember basic names and track thier actions. Hacking/DDoSing on the flip-side, deserve permanent bans, as they disrupt the game too greatly. Taking down an entire server is not on the same level as killing an entire team, then leaving. Sure, you might be a douche-bag, but you won't be remembered to the extent as a hacker would, or even a DDoS. These and these only are deserving of permanent bans, at least to the extent of my experience with them. Hacking physically modifies the game, giving players unfair advantages, such as instant head shots at the click of a keyboard. Or, DDoS which essentially is used to shut down a server. Granted, if they do mass freekill then leave even after a chance of redemption, that's the exception. Otherwise, I firmly believe that mass freekilling isn't grounds for a permanent game ban, rather grounds for a month ban, or CT ban. Well, you might as well then let silence determine all the bans, now that the community cannot have a say without bias. People who contribute greatly should be given a little wiggle room, after all, the nature of humanity states mistakes happen.

I'll be honest, didn't read this whole thread it's all TL:DR. I saw your post on the forum post in particular. I do think that from here on out, permanent bans should stay EXACTLY THAT WAY. Unless of course it was a wrongful ban. There really isn't much else to say on the matter, Forest probably covered all of it in his infinite wisdom.

I detect trace hints of acute butthurtitis, I would suggest 50cc's of "going outside" and "giving less fucks about something that is entirely pointless and has literally no impact on your life whatsoever". If people honestly care so much about some red pixels on a damn screen, and think that said pixels will forever determine your fate/reputation, you need to immediately get off the internet, and stay off for a long time. Seriously people, it's just little markings on your post that most people put down as a joke, if you take this shit so seriously to the point where you want to get ratings reset just so you can appear better to new members (these stupid ratings shouldn't matter anyway, it's the physical interaction with people in-game that will really determine your reception within the clan, not how many "likes" or "dislikes" you have) then once again, please take a glass of water, and pour it all over your desktop and monitor. Stfu nigger

I guess; it's just another measure map made by another noob.

I hadn't realized he was reapplying. I forgot he was previously a member. I'm sorry for being an idiot.

Josh Thomson? Zachary? Ellison? who are you?

what's a haa-dron?

+1 great guy to play with i know what he did was wrong but we unbanned people for worse.... JUST SAYIN

I love you :)

Mind as well do it myself!

Welcome back dude, hope to see you sometime!

Are you fucking down syndrome kid.. Get over here so I can rape you