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Cheesus crust, there is a reason that our 'Spray' rule is so inexplicably vague; to prevent controversial or otherwise biased bans from taking place such as this. I'll re-iterate once more: if the spray is not PG13 in any shape or form, then abide by the rules and deal out the appropriate warning/kick/ban. Honestly, it doesn't matter if it's a child's cartoon depicting a sexual act, a dude banging an animal, a minor performing a sexual act in the form of a cartoon, who cares; if it's anything that should not be seen by anyone under the age of 13, then warn them to change it, kick them, ban them for a day, ban them for a week, ban them for a month, and then ban them permanently [for repeated offense]. Don't start dragging morals and ethics into the mix when we honestly [shouldn't or] don't give a flying f*ck what the Player's interests are [in regards to a spray]. As long as they abide by our rules on the Server then they can do whatever the hell they want. This means not enforcing or sanctioning your own beliefs and opinions on a Player, and worse, acting on it by dishing out an extended ban time. You cannot, and should not, use your position of power to emphasize your stance on a certain topic of debate, however controversial it may be. This is the reason why we do not condone nor allow political debate, religious debate, or anything in between on the Servers. If someone starts talking about it, warn them not to, gag/mute them if needed, kick, ban, whatever. By no means should Staff be jumping the gun based on how "serious" the topic is and dealing an extended ban time. If this really was justified as per the Higher-Ups, then I honestly do not condone this whatsoever and am worried of the direction we are currently taking towards the enforcement of rules. I won't say it's wrong as it is entirely up to their discretion, but I also do not agree with it in any shape or form.

The user was banned for a month because of combined actions. Me, @virr, @Bello, and @Sesh had agreed that he should be banned for a month because of his conduct. He not only sprayed porn, he was constantly talking about sexual conduct with children, and his name history even shows it. I was the one who pushed for him to be banned for a month. That being said, I don't think extending his ban to a perm is really necessary, he should get another chance to clean up his act.

Anyway, @Bello, @Sesh, @mrnutty12, we ready to close this?

Just no penis/dildo tower pls

uh oh, same! If I may say, the whole Xerses ban was bullshit. He posted a link to a thread where someone later on allegedly posted CP, which is surely disgusting but not his fault. I personally don't think CP and drawn little anime girls are the same, but I'm not lawyer. When choosing a punishment for the offender, I think it's fair to say that we did not follow any type of protocol, but rather some moral compass if you know what I mean. Any sane human would find the offender's conduct outrages and digusting, hence we jumped straight to a month ban. However, I do think he should get one final chance, as he has never been banned before. I do agree with this to a certain extent, but I don't think following a certain protocol is necessary when the alleged person speaks about having sex with children. If the TF2 higher ups all agree that a harsher punishment is appropriate and even get a CM's approval, then I think it's fine. That being said, I would love to hear @mrnutty12's input as well.

" section 504 subsection 1466A of the PROTECT act of 2003 clarifies that “drawing” or “cartoon” visual representations of child sexual abuse must depict a minor involved in sexual activity, be obscene, and lack “serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value” in order to violate the law. Beside the fact that the US Supreme Court has already determined this section of the PROTECT act to be unconstitutional, imported Japanese lolicon art would still have to be legally proven “obscene” and lacking in “literary, artistic” value in order to be deemed illegal." "In November 2011, Joseph Audette, a 30-year-old computer network administrator from Surry, Maine, was arrested after his username was linked to child pornography sites. A search inside Audette's home did result in photographic child pornography in addition to "anime child pornography".[86] Much unlike previous cases (and likely due to the results of the Handley ruling), the charges for the cartoons specifically were quickly dismissed under Maine law and dropped under federal law" notice how the charges pertaining to "anime child pornography" are dropped in both of the most recent cases involving it, both on the states, and on the federal level in the US. Federally, loli is not child porn, and any case that is in states that gets put through on it will go to higher courts to prove themselves not guilty of child porn.

Do you have proof that he was hacking? (Demo of it) Loli porn is not child porn, it is more akin to a weird anime porn fetish, but not child porn. Porn sprays are not something that is perm banned for, and not even banned for 1 month, they are banned for a day if that and asked to change/not use on the server (increasing amount the more times after as long as they were given a warning and told about it first) I highlighted the important parts, and I would quote them from forums instead but the old generic all access easy to read admin handbook post by @serbiansnaga doesn't exist anymore. Porn sprays were a warning and a removal of spray, kick, banned for a few hours - 1 day, and then 1 week, and then 1 month. Not instantly given a 1 month ban. This is my 2 cents as an old M/A/DL who has been around since the early days. Y'all need to chill the fuck out.

I'm going vacation to Chicago starting tomorrow until next Saturday on the 29th so I'll see you nerds then, I'll still be stalking the forums or on steam if you need me though but I won't be on any games.

100 times this. Just because a spray isn't "your cup of tea" doesn't give you grounds to punish them on it. For example: If I were to have a spray of a skeleton, most people would see it and probably just think "Haha, doot doot, my dude". However, there are people out there who could find it disgusting/disturbing because of their beliefs, and I hope if someone were to report me for having a skeleton spray you guys wouldn't respond with "Oh, well I guess since it offended someone we have to perma ban him". Even if the spray followed the rules. Now, I don't know what the contents of the spray were, but if it were actually breaking our current spray rules then yeah, punish the person according to procedure, not jumping straight to perma bans. Otherwise don't perma ban someone for having a spray of Brussels sprouts "because they're icky".

I’m not vouching on part of the hacking unless I can see it for myself, especially since we seem to be basing this off of suspicion rather than actual proof.

It's not? This is actually a pretty calm debate

It must be because I'm .uk or something. I stand by thinking that it's child porn but it might be different in the UK. I understand that's it's not 100% child porn per se but I still think it is because it's the exact same concept but anime instead, which is why I still think they should have a very long ban, especially combined with the trolling and toxic attitude on the server.

I get neither of those messages when searching that on Google. I personally disagree that it is an equivalent to CP as it is not a real human and just a drawing, although it still is a drawing of a younger person, it is still disturbing... therefore I only feel that the user should be punished in the way that anyone else would be that sprays pornographic material in general. With that being said, I am going to -1 as this user was punished improperly, and should have ban either removed or reduced to the appropriate first tier of punishment.

We aren't going to permanently ban you from the servers for doing this one time. Staff members have to go through the process of ban times (hour>day>week>month>perm). There are certain exceptions to this rule, as in dirty pictures of children or cheating will result in an instant permanent ban. You only have a ban set for one day, you will be unbanned on 07-19-17 at 20:59 or 8:59PM (at least in the EST timezone) tl;dr: don't worry about permanent bans just yet, try reading the general rules that you can find here or by typing !motd in chat on our servers.

There is nothing wrong with owning up to your mistakes, in fact it's a far better alternative than lying to get out of a ban. With that said, you still did break the rules and a punishment is still in order regardless of whether or not you acknowledge your mistakes. For that, you already receive a lot more respect than you would if you were to lie about it. A day ban really is the 'minimum' for certain actions on the Server, so anything less would just be an unban, but a Ban Protest is never unjustified. For future reference, if you ever receive a ban of any kind [for over a day] and feel that it was unwarranted, please do not hesitate to submit a Ban Protest. Just know that the likelihood of getting out of a day ban is incredibly slim to begin with; there are only a handful of reasons that it could get pushed through, such as if it were a mistake made by Staff :coffee:

So you admit to breaking multiple rules and want to get unbanned? :thinking: Anyways its a 1 day ban you can wait it out. @Sesh @mrnutty12

Admin Handbook | Xeno Gamers This old thing? Also, continuing off of what Chrono said, regardless of what constitutes "child pornography", if it depicts any sort of graphic content (nudity, gore, anything not PG13) then it should not be permitted. With that said, Staff should not be making "exceptions" to this rule in regards to ban time based on their own personal beliefs/opinions.Simply put, if it isn't PG13, tell them to change it. End of story. As for the ban time, I agree 100% with Chrono; the user should not have been outright banned for 1 month, especially provided that the user does not have any bans prior. Literally all I want to clear up in this thread, y'all can discuss the hacking aspects of it, but by no means should anyone be issuing extended ban times based on their own beliefs/opinions.

I'm just gonna add that if most of the United states which is where xg is located considers lolicon to be child pornography then why shouldn't we consider it that too since it is almost the same thing and deserves the same punishment.

Just an FYI, someone spraying a loli spray on our servers would in no possible way get us in trouble as a community. I'm sure Rhodo knows more about it than me, but I can't think of any legal way they could possibly punish us for something like that, especially since TF2 itself doesn't take action against it.

The aimbot ban is fine, you have a demo and more than 1 admin to back it up. The problem here is there was a 1 month ban with no previous ban record for a pornography spray, and asking for him to be banned based on that loli spray as the only legitimately presented proof, there is no proof presented yet that this is infact the same person, (demo with him on voice, same voice etc.)

Division: Team Fortress 2 In-Game Name: Peter Parmesan Identity: Steam Community :: Peter Parmesan Ban Type: Server Ban Information: Received a permanent ban at some point yesterday from [xG] Pokemon Trade Center. Ban was administered by ill41057. I have no clue why this was done. I don't know the admin and I don't believe I was breaking any rules (if I was I would appreciate some warnings beforehand or communication afterwards).

Dude chill, you can't come in posting every 20 minutes expecting an immediate answer, everyone has their own personal life and the current DL that was responding to you is from Germany. They will respond to you ASAP depending on their life schedule.

My friend, maf!, commissioned a bust of a Sniper set, so yeah, here it is. I did the majority of this shading in one sitting and decided against a final border outline which I did integrate onto a previous piece, but I still enjoy how this turned out. Much more pastel-like.

Close enough to 24 hours. Here you are, sir! Welcome to the family. <3 CONGRATULATIONS! You have been accepted to join Xeno Gamers! To begin your membership, familiarize yourself with our rules listed here. This is highly important and knowing these rules will keep you safe from bans! Want to get Moderator? There are a few ways to earn admin! 1. Be active on TeamSpeak! To download TeamSpeak click here and then click 'Download Here' and download the appropriate client for your OS. Then just install, follow the 'Easy Setup' guide, and finally, click 'Connections' and 'Connect' and enter 'voice.xenogamers.com' in the 'Server Address' field. 2. Be active on the forums! This is one of the best ways to get your voice heard in Xeno Gamers! 3. Be active on the servers! This shows that you are committed to the clan! For a server list, click here. Come check out our staff list to see who is who on the servers, click here or here. WE HOPE YOU ENJOY YOUR STAY!

It's only a day ban, don't sweat it too much. No one is going to perm you unless you either keep doing it or do something really bad like hack or etc. All in all don't worry too much about it, going to close this then though other staff can open it up if they feel the need to.

you know what never mind i feel like shit now go ahead and perma ban me

wel doesn't it mean something that i would admit to it to try to get back on it because i like it so much?

I agree with @SnowyDimples , if you could. Could you add a little more props to make it stand out in a way? other than that it's a good map indeed.

Was choice mad yet or naw?

Was I unbanned?

So may I be unbanned?

Hey remember when we were going to not make this a shitstorm? Me too.