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I'm just gonna say this. I've said some bad shit on the servers, as has every other adult. To the extent Matsi has? I don't think so. My main concern is whether or not a higher up has confronted him about it. I know myself when I was DM, I sure as fuck didn't. And that being said I guess shame on us. But shame on him for knowing this is primarily a younger aged clan. And young kids are impressionable as fuck. You don't hear me going on about my sexcapades on servers. So frankly you should have known better with that. I personally don't give two shits if he stays or goes. He does his job, yet he doesn't. He's sassy, but mature. Same can be said with most of the staff we have (hell. Myself included some days) One last point. You guys are all acting like a bunch of children pointing fingers. Allegations and "he said she said". Give your head a shake guys. Come on. It's the Internet for fucks sakes.

+1 also increase the time that maps can be chosen, since people love choosing the same ones over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and 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over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

ya'll need to be writing shit for new York time with all the 1000 word essays you be writing for some dude you dont like

Just a heads up. Kbraszzle and I feel he and Bliz are very mature for their ages. I don't see a problem with letting them in and neither does he. Besides, they're 15... less than a few months away from being sixteen. What's the big deal? What's going to change in like 3-6 months? Nothing.

I would like to add to this that, while I admit I have talked about my cum cookbook and also said the phrase "Sorry my words are so salty because of all the cum I swallow" and similar things, I rarely talk about sexual furry stuff or anything related to bestiality without someone else bringing it up, which I can't even remember happening in the TF servers, on the servers. And while sure... you guys say that kind of thing should not be talked about on the servers I see many of you talking about similar sexual things like today @NotKoala hit his bind a few times which said something like "I'm so fresh you could suck my nuts" and while some people say "oh it's a song tho so it's ok" I would like to point out an example that Blink182 has a song about fucking a dog.... so..... ya there's that. I would also like to add that @Owl and/or @Duke have stated that this is a pg13 forum or w/e and that me talking about storking a dog isn't allowed here.... yet the both of them are the ones that took that comment from a private TS3 channel and made it their sig here on the forums, for all the minors to read. The only time I've talked about such things here on the forums was in reply to posts like @ASock bringing it up in my mod app. I admit this is a problem, and it's something I have been trying to work on ever since having sorta fights with both @Ohstopyou and @Rejects about rules. I think I have improved on it since then.

Member's Name: MATSI MEMBER PROTEST COMPANION THREAD Member's Steam ID: --- Information: Since the main post Matsi is a crazy disorganized mess, this will be the official +1 / -1 thread. Cast your vote here, argue it in the other thread. Please only comment either +1 -1 in this thread, nothing else. Thank you. KEEP IN MIND: This is NOT a ban vote. This is a vote strictly for membership and staff.

+:shrekd:

As to stay true to my word, thread is now closed. I would like to depart with one final comment. Lots of fingers pointed, lots of allegations, and lots of heated tension. But that all aside, I do wish to commend you guys for actually handling yourselves in a respectable, mature way. This is one of those kinds of posts that could EASILY degrade into shitposting, but it didn't. Today, I'm proud of how my clan presented themselves. I have also had plenty of time to think things over. I've been able to weigh the pros and the cons of the situation and take a good, hard look at everything presented thus far. I was able to take a break from the computer, stayed away from the clan for a whole night, and gave it some time to let the passionate feelings die away. After giving it a break and relooking at this, I am honestly still torn. On the one hand, we have Matsi's well-documented problems from what seems to be forever ago. We have documented evidence of his attitude problem as of late, and we have many testimonies about how he has presented himself in representation of this clan. But a VERY valid point was raised when the question was asked: "Has anyone ever actually TALKED to him." That question really got my gears turning, because I can honestly say that with a few exceptions, I haven't actually sat down and talked to Matsi about ANY of this. I did two nights ago, but the conversation was very brief and didn't even scrape the surface of what was presented in this thread. It seems to me that it'd be almost unfair to expect someone to self-correct problems that aren't being addressed. True, there have been past behaviors exhibited that definitely should NOT have been even given a second thought, but how can I as a leader of this clan rightly punish someone if they never had a set course of clear changes that were expected to be made? I am aware that many problems have been discussed with Matsi, but I am also seeing that not every problem was approached. I am still levying the pros and cons of having Matsi as a staff member. From what I can tell anyways, he is active, upholds the server rules, and is quick to take care of offenders. But I can't attest to that, because any time there is an issue in the servers, it's either dealt with before I arrive or after I leave. So, what I am saying is I personally am still weighing the evidence to decide if I feel like Matsi is staff material. But do I think he should lose his membership over this? I mean, I've heard WAY worse things come out of the mouths of some of our other members, but there is the issue of these subjects being brought up in servers with young people present. I'm changing my +1 for removal of membership to a neutral stance. You guys be the ones to decide if you want him in our clan and I will support it. I have to conclude whether he is staff material or not, and that discussion will be held with Ohstopyou, Moosty, and Rejects. @Matsi, I do wish to apologize for getting so upset. I was pretty mad when I heard of some of your past actions, but I didn't take the time to consider how long ago they happened or how serious they really were. I was just angry and I lashed out. I told you I was going to do my best to find a suitable compromise to the problems at hand, and this is me holding up my end of that bargain. Hope you don't hate me for having to do my job. T.T

I will keep the thread open for another hour and forty minutes to allow any other final comments to be made. (Thread closes at 5:00pm MST.) As Vector said, the majority of our views have been stated and there is very little left to add. The companion thread will remain open for the remainder of the evening for any members who have not already been able to give their decision. Please note that in no way does that thread indicate Matsi's fate. It is simply a way the higher ups can track everyone's view on the matter. Also keep in mind that this is a Member Protest, not a ban Request. Matsi is not being banned AFAIK. (That would be a CL decision, but I see no reason why he would be banned.)

@Hidingmaster @Kbraszzzz @metalslug53 @Chrono @Snackbar @Owl

It's gone :)

haha hey rifter you memed em good!

Solely basing my opinion off of my previous questions (found Here) as well as what I've seen outside of the TF2 Servers, primarily in the xG forums. Given the circumstances, I won't be typing out some massive wall of text (I looked back on this and, straight up, I lied) due to the fact that most of what I would bring up has already been brought up in this thread. That being said, it'll still be a lengthy read. To allow an easier time, I'll briefly summarize the main points that I believe were made in this thread with my added opinion. 1. Offensive Material So far, this has been one of the biggest pieces of kindle to the fire, if not the open flame to the firestorm. It's understandable that no one wants to see or hear about the "offensive" material Matsi has brought up, but from what I've personally seen, 9/10 times these moments were instigated or even provoked. Mock the guy by saying something like "go have sex with a dog" (extreme example) and you damn well better expect him to retaliate with something just as vulgar. However, with that being said, it is just as unacceptable for Matsi to talk in detail about something as "offensive" as what he [supposedly] did, especially in the presence of minors either in or out of the Server. While this may be the case, I'd like to remind everyone that vulgarities are a common thing online. Hell I bet I could get on the TF2 Server and at some point or another, someone will outright say "suck my dick" or anything else along those lines. Obviously the two (beasiality, for a lack of better words, and text-book vulgarity) aren't on the same level, but if you're going to argue that Matsi is saying offensive material in the presence of minors, then you should take into account all of the other filth that is said in and out of Servers. In the end, it's all the same and minors should not be subjected to any of it if that's your argument. Needless to say, if you don't want someone to go into detail about their personal life, don't ask. If you won't ask, they won't tell. Stop instigating with comments or posts that either have no relevance or should not have even been mentioned. All in all, any sort of "extreme ideologies" or life choices that aren't PG- 13 should not be shared openly on the Servers. We're here to play games and have fun, not to debate and discuss what gets each other off. This should not be counted as a huge "strike" against Matsi. 2. Sense of Entitlement If the offensive material was the open flame, then this is the pile of dead branches and twigs that contributes the ignition. We've all seen it before, someone posts something in a way that leads others to believe they're cocky or arrogant. I won't say this doesn't happen, I've seen my fair share of Matsi giving attitude and sass in response to a thread or post. I do agree that it is completely unwarranted in most cases, just as it was when the exact same problem had occurred with Vector. With that said, we can all do without this sort of attitude and behaviour on the forums. I'll agree that a change needs to be made here. There's some truth in the saying "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all". It really isn't that difficult to realize not everyone has the same thought pattern or perceptions as yourself (in general), so give the person a break or give them the benefit of the doubt. Anything from the sentence "have a nice day :) " can be misconstrued given the circumstances, which leads me to my next point. 3. Personal Opinion Everyone is entitled to this. I may not be a part of the TF2 Division, but we're all in the same clan. This isn't some civil war where CS:GO is better than TF2 or TF2 is better than ND. Everyone has the exact same say in something, regardless of their primary Division. Even if it is negative, why is there a need to call them out by saying something like "you have no idea what this is about, get out of here and stay out of here"? It's just as easy to tell them why what they said couldn't work or why it isn't a viable option. The relevance of this point is how Matsi is shut out from the CS:GO Division due to whatever the hell the reason is. We all know that Matsi is a whistle-blower (based on the Ban Requests he has submitted) which means that the guy is dedicated to following the rules properly, which I can see no problem. However, because of the attitude he can give, most of what he says may come off in an arrogant way, a sort of "I know all of the rules and what you're doing is wrong" which can appear as though he has this sense of entitlement as mentioned earlier. Mix that with people who have a bad history with him, and you have an explosive and volatile reaction. Case in point, Snackbar's reaction to Matsi's post in which Matsi mentions a pre-existing rule that conflicts with Snackbar's addition of a new rule. Depending on your history with Matsi, you may read what he said as offensive, sarcastic, or any other variant. For example, had he said "As long as it doesn't apply to the TF2 Division, it doesn't matter to me" it would have been interpreted in a different way. It is exactly as how you choose to perceive it. I'm not saying Snackbar is in the wrong, this is just the most recent example that displays how things can be interpreted in a way that can potentially escalate the situation (which it does). After all is said and done, the following are the issues that need to be cleared up: - Vulgarity: Matsi needs to realize that one's personal life or ideologies (especially in regards to any form of sexual content) should not be shared openly on Servers or in the presence of minors. - Sense of entitlement: Matsi needs to better critique people in a way that doesn't display a "I'm better than you" attitude, or just refrain from doing it at all. This includes snide remarks that really aren't necessary both in and out of the forums. That being said, just as with Vector, if you don't feel you can get along, then do us all a favour and don't provoke the guy. It literally does no good to anyone and just exacerbates things. If you don't agree with his personal choices in life, deal with it. It isn't your life, you have no influence on it, stop trying to control it. My verdict? Seeing as how this was never brought up before by means of actual confrontation of Higher-Ups sitting down with Matsi and discussing the situation, I say he gets a stern warning. As I mentioned in my earlier post, if (prior to this thread) there was no moment in which this issue was discussed and a warning wasn't given, I don't see how it's fair to condemn Matsi immediately. As to whether he is deserving of being a Staff Member (my only experience is with his Ban Requests) that is completely up to the TF2 Higher-Ups. *Note: Just to clarify, I do not condone any of Matsi's actions or life choices. However, that does not mean he deserves to be treated any less than any one of you. We all have our own personal lifestyles and choices, and shouldn't be determining how someone else should live their life.

Companion thread is back open. Although we don't necessarily run by majority vote all the time, I would still like to have a place for people to vote (where it isnt mixed in with a bunch of arguing). The CLs will get together and talk about it, keeping the voting in mind. Also, don't think its a big deal for Chrono to be closing threads and moderating the forums, as long as it is within reason. If you want to discuss anything @Chrono, feel free to message me on the forums. Including snackbar and the other issues you brought up.

The only thing I did after you reopened it was say yawn and give my opinion on Diversion's mod app, and I don't remember saying anything about your ability as a DM, unless I'm misreading?

tbh I've put some thought into this. Imma subtract my -1 because i don't hold grudges.wish you luck in getting back in, lets have a better run together this time :)

I don't really see what's so member-demotion worthy about saying that you stroked a dog. If you think you can get removed from membership for saying something that seems disgusting then this clan would be a lot smaller. I mean for christs sake we had an ENTIRE fan fic thread full of disgusting crap and the most that happened was the thread getting closed. No one raised a finger about it because it was "funny" to you guys. It all depends on the perespective. After looking through your post the only evidence that really holds any weight to me would be the post on the steam exploit thread. There's also a function called ignoring if you don't want to see his "absolutely disguting" posts and etc. It's not like he is specifically trying to talk about and show you furry crap. Now you might say, "well we dont want all the kids seeing this gross crap". Then again, weren't you the one always preaching about how the internet is not a friendly place and if you cant handle insults, bad things on the internet etc to not get on it? Also he has had that avatar for many months now, but im glad that you had the resolve to push through the sick turning in your stomach all this time to make this member protest. For some reason you seem to think that because people don't like him, its a good reason to make him leave. Until I see evidence of this "General Instigation" and "General Abrasiveness" I won't really think much of your post. BTW since when was "Anti Social activity" a good reason to get your membership removed? lol I honestly think that this post is just Vector finally letting out his hatred towards Matsi and everybodies just like "yeah furries are kind of weird imo, +1". I'm not saying that I like furry crap, but the stuff in this thread doesnt provide enough decent evidence to get him demoted. Now im not a member, so this is just my opinion.

This is nothing compared to our error page :coffee:

+1 I have a mild taste for weirdly large chicken A : 8/10 M : 6/10 (can be a wee bit immature at times) ^fuck you Bach just in case ;)

OK. let's get started. First and foremost, I do not condone this thread at all. My major reason for that is that almost every single person posting in here giving a +1 has instigated so many different issues with matsi and in fact almost all the instances you use as proof (not counting the countdown thread by vector) are all started by you guys posting something derogatory, demeaning, rude, and just plain un-necessary towards matsi. Exhibit A: Phoenix made a moderator submission, matsi simply posted a quote of the appropriately deemed requirements to create one and said that it should be closed due to not meeting the requirements, instantly owl, vector, and various other staff members of CS:GO posted rude and hateful things basically telling matsi to fuck off. Meanwhile you turn around to Diversion's mod submission and owl posts that and demands a close and literally throws a hissy fit about when I re-open it even going to the point of insulting my ability as a DM. Secondly, just going to get this out of the way before I forget it, but this is a semi-unrelated note: Snackbar, you're a great guy and all but you need to chill the fuck out. You're doing great trying to help and all and it really is appreciated by me, but you're taking things too fast. You banned him on teamspeak "for shits and giggles all in good fun" you don't do that to someone unless you are good friends with them. You push all these rule changes that are discussed by you and 2 others that agree with you at 3am in teamspeak, with no regard for a discussion prior to making it official without messaging the rest of the higher ups in the division as well as those rules push away from the unified set of rules that we tried very hard to make happen. yes game specific rules will be division specific but now you are making a steam name global rule a division specific thing, going so far as to try and control what people make their steam name "must be a name you are easily recognized as such as your forum name or a name you frequently use" if I decide I wanted to go by AlphaOmega tonight nobody would recognize me at first, as well as if asked I would present my forum name. Next, there is a blatant exclusion of communication the very opposite is happening in regards to that which @Rhododendron was all for trying to eliminate and then he too becomes guilty of his old habit of talking to one person about something and making a change: I have not once been messaged by snackbar with who he wants to promote/demote since he was given the opportunity as DM, nor has he responded to my private message I made with him and bleed specifically for discussing between us promo demo and other future changes we would be considering doing (obviously they would then be brought into a discussion on the csgo forums). even now going so far as to post promo/demo at 3am because he wants to do it when it is a CL job, and he creates his own promo/demo without consult. the reason it is a CL job is because they can then cross check it. when you post it, there is no going back on it. while I agree the whole set of CS:GO staff right now is good at their job, I can tell you for a god damn fact a couple people got promoted because they are your friends while you wouldnt consider some others because you aren't friends and always talking even though they are just as deserving of staff. Third, there was supposedly a discussion between tf2 higher ups, csgo higher ups, and silence. I was not included so it clearly did not include all csgo higher ups, bleed probably wasnt, and since when do we banish someone from a division? no. if you really dont like the guy, just fucking ignore him. Beastiality is not a federal law, it may be a state law, but we have to go by federal since that is the do all tell all for anyone in the US as a US based community if you want to bring "felonies" into it. tarin sexually idolized and sent dick pics to a 14 year old boy which has been presented proof of, that is a federal felony. Beastiality is not a felony according to federal law, and as such could not be used. infact if you wanted to use some state laws, there are some that limit what you can and cannot have sex with, as stated by matsi florida it has to be bigger than a porcupine. No he should not be saying these things in public but it is his life and his sexual interests, they dont do anything to you, I could see a abuse report for conduct unbecoming of a staff member as that is immature and not the "better" thing to be doing, and I would gladly give a + 1 to that, but a removal of member? no. wanting him to be permanently banned? absolutely not. Don't get me wrong, I am not friends with the guy, even if I was like with the vector case, I fought for iggy too and I am not afraid to turn around and ban a friend when they fuck up. See: rabid and vector having numerous bans from me. forum and game and teamspeak. But if you want to do something to this scale then there better be a legitimate reason, which is why when snackbar said he was thinking about posting one I told him I would give it a - 1 and that I believed it would be incorrect to post in the first place for some of the reasons listed above. after you get time to read over this and simmer, I will post a follow up to any questions/legitimate posts in response to this. I will also be closing the "Companion Thread" as this is not a "majority vote" kind of thing, this is a CL decision and they will make it by going over all the statements and evidence provided in the thread, I will not be deleting that thread like I should until after the resolution of this issue is met, If you cannot give a reason to your vouch, then you shouldn't be posting it anyway, as well as periodically as I fade in and out of being home because of my life and shit, I will be going through this and deleting useless/stupid posts. please refrain from posting multiple times because you are debating with multiple people as well as try to be as clear as possible in your posts. just to re-iterate, snackbar you need to chill out a bit and take a step back. everyone posting needs to make legitimate posts legitimately debating and give a reason behind a vouch. if you want to use laws as a form of back up, use federal and not state laws. and everyone should probably take a day away from this thread before they post anything else to give time for their minds to settle, psychologically you guys are too into the hype of a new thread getting so big and everyone should chill out.

-1