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all yall need to chill out

you guys have a rule in the MOTD on tf2 trade servers that says respect little kids, but you contradict yourselves saying no immature voices but are now contradicting yourselves again by saying you should give "dah little kids a chance" when they aren't given a chance to prove their maturity. I personally don't care either way but there are some cool squeakers that wanted to get into xg but are too young to get in. dude fuck off. you're a co-leader. fucking deal with it. yo make demos or screenshot shit whenever he gets on at the same time as you. if he targets you so often that should be ezpz

.. It's only easy to obtain "membership" because Division Managers aren't putting their foot down on what is considered a valid vouch as opposed to a "this is the first thing I could come up with to support my +1 even though it has no specific relevance to this particular person and is a very general statement." If you want change, it begins with the Higher-Ups imposing a stricter policy on Member Submissions, as it already should be. Take a look at our Membership Submission Guidelines and you'll notice a handful of things that go unheeded. However, I don't want to put the blame solely on Higher-Ups simply because Members have to do their part in compiling a meaningful vouch that actually pertains to each individual in some way. At this point, it feels like those accepting new applicants are just skimming through and counting the +1s that a particular applicant has before slapping on the "Congratulations, you were able to get into our exclusive clan". Mind you this only applies to those select few and is merely an opinion with no evidence or the like. In the end, the Division Managers/Leaders are the ones who decide who gets in for their respective Divisions. If you have beef with people who are getting into the clan that are immature, then confront your respective Manager/Leader and give them the business. Hell, you have Member Submissions to pull valid evidence from for vouches that were invalid if you need "proof" that they shouldn't even be a Member. It can be just as difficult to get membership as it can be to face (legitimate) expulsion from the clan. Honestly, if you have to go out of your way to actively seek out proof or evidence against someone every day and can't find any, then chances are that this is actually some personal vendetta you have against that individual. If the offending person is as toxic or as obnoxious as someone claims them to be, then it should be an easy task to get evidence. Kicking someone from the clan for no reason other than "we don't like him/her" is by no means a legitimate reason or justified solution and shouldn't even be considered. This is a prime example of someone hung up on their personal vendetta against someone. If you (in general) were to look back at Matsi's protest thread and were to wade through all of the hate and anger, you'll find very valid points that were made to support him. That thread was the first major thread to address his behaviour, and as such the only logical solution would be to issue a publicly stated warning, a cease and desist notice for a lack of better words. Anything further would just be unfair and not justified in the least. Those of you who keep shouting "we aren't being listened to" don't seem to get it; you're blinded by your own values and desires. You're looking through an opaque glass that focuses solely on results as opposed to listening to rationality. Your opinions didn't go unheeded, but just because there is a large group of people against someone, that doesn't mean their condemnations outweigh the right thing to do. Obviously your sheer outrage has been noticed and has resulted in a strike against Matsi's standing, meaning that the next time he is out of turn he will receive a punishment. Isn't that progress? Does that not mean that you were heard? No, instead, in your eyes it just means that because he wasn't out right banned or faced expulsion from the clan, the Higher-Ups didn't listen to you and therefore you aren't entitled to an opinion. Not everything you say or do will result in immediate action, and this applies everywhere. This is why we [should] have level-headed Higher-Ups who try their best to appeal to both sides of an argument. They consider both sides of the argument and determine the best outcome that is fair and just. It isn't easy being someone with that kind of power and responsibility, seriously. As a retired Co-Leader I can attest to that. EDIT: For the sake of salvaging what's left of this thread, it isn't my intention to open up a can of worms. If you want to directly reply to this post, just shoot me a PM or something and I'll be glad to discuss it. Hell, even open up a new thread and discuss it there, that would be fine. I just implore you to not do it here so that this whole "Age Requirement" thing can be discussed properly :coffee:

please say this is a joke, i've seen cristo on more then insane and cristo should be demoted... i'd rather have active mods then inactive ones to come back to. the most inactive staff we have is cristo then hidingmaster and hiding gets on if he can if asked(idk about others asking but he does for me <3) Insanes activity (if serious he was given mod) Xeno Gamers - Player Sessions History Cristos Xeno Gamers - Player Sessions History We need ACTIVE staff not people like insane who want powers but rarly get on. I know theres not many good choices for it but i'd rather wait then promote people who dont deserve it.

Problem solved (?) @Rhododendron @Hidingmaster @kbraszzz By using Xenogamers.com and Xenogamers.org, you signify that you have read, understand, and agree to be bound by these Terms and conditions, ("Terms of Service"). Xenogamers.com and Xenogamers.org reserve the right, at their sole discretion, to modify or replace any of these Terms of Service, or change, suspend, or discontinue the Service [including without limitation, the availability of any feature, database, content, or server at any time.] Xenogamers.com and Xenogamers.org may also impose limits on certain features and services that may restrict your access to parts or all of the Service/s without notice or liability. Xenogamers.com and Xenogamers.org assume no liability for mental, physical, or emotional trauma or damage to yourself, others, or property. It is your responsibility to check these Terms of Service periodically for changes. Your continued use of our website, databases, servers, or content, following the posting of any changes to these Terms of Service, constitutes acceptance of those changes. This applies to both websites, and any subsequently linked servers shown on bans.xenogamers.com. If you disagree with the Terms of Service listed in this document, please stop using Xenogamers.com and Xenogamers.org! Registration and Eiligibility You may browse the Site and view content with or without registering; however, you may not hold Xenogamers.com and Xenogamers.org responsible, directly or indirectly, for the content (graphic or not) that you are viewing. Posting of content on this website does not necessarily mean endorsement of said content by Xenogamers.com and Xenogamers.org. Content on this website is deemed safe for mature audiences (18+). You must be 16 or older to create an account on these websites. Anyone under 16 should speak to their parent/s or legal guardian/s first. Content Third party content may be used and posted on this website (this includes, but is not limited to: videos, pictures, files, ads, cookies, etc.) Xenogamers.com and Xenogamers.org assume no liabilty for damages caused by said content. Abuse Abuse of any part of our ecosystem (Website or Servers) may result in a ban from our Services or the immediate termination of your account. ----------------------------------------------------------- In normal English: Essentially, we are not responsible for any damage that results from the use of our websites or servers (3rd party included). If something offends you, or you fear it may damage something, please stop using our websites and servers. We are not responsible for the content that is posted, and we do not endorse said content (unless stated otherwise). Content posted on here is presumed to be for mature audiences (18+), so viewer discretion is advised. You must be 16 or older to create an account. If you are under 16, you need to speak to a parent or legal guardian first. We will not monitor the age of accounts created, as it is a parent or legal guardian's job to monitor what their child or children do on the internet. Abuse of anything on our website or servers may result in a ban or a termination of your account. By using, or continuing to use our Services, you agree to be bound by these Terms, ("Terms of Service").

I'll admit, I did (and do) have concerns about his activity. But it's not like he's a new member who won't follow the rules, or is really at risk for abusing. If it doesn't turn out as well, then we can demote him just as easily. It doesn't cost anything to have someone as mod/admin and there is no limit to the number of people we can have, which is also the same reason I don't think cristo needs to be demoted. He's not on much but he does great when he is on, and we have no real reason to demote him.

Windows 10 is better in every way than Windows 7. I've been using it for quite a few months now on my personal computer and laptop with no issues. If your games ran like a potato, you likely forgot to run Windows Updates and to update your video card drivers. Both AMD and Nvidia have video drivers on their websites. Usually when you first install/upgrade Windows, it comes with a generic video driver and very few pre-installed updates.

It's the responsibility of the parents to monitor what their children do on the internet, so I agree with you. We are not their keepers.

Yes yes yes yes yes. This so much. (y)

Its December, this is typically a rough month for everyone, we have the biggest Hallmark Holiday tm to deal with. With that comes family time, work stress, school stress with finals, and a whole slew of other things. Theres going to be bouts of inactivity from everyone ffor whatever reason around this time. This is my slowest month, I work on commission only and NO ONE spends money on themselves this time a year as they are busy getting gifts for others. I am stressed, struggling, and constantly having a headache right about now. That being said, despite all of the real life stress that actually matters, I am still doing my best to devote time to this place because I actually give a fuck about you guys and the community, and by taking the position of division leader I knew full well I would have to work this into my schedule. One of the early promises I made was that I wasnt going to be a dl wh0 does it for a while then bails- Im in this for the long run. I read every post and I do my best to deal with peoples concerns GRANTED they fall under my jurisdiction. Some things I cant make a final call on until @Rhododendron signs off on it, but also be aware that believe me when I say it, soon as he gives me an hours time to approve some things, I will be spearheading some of the bigger issues you guys have brought up, until then Im just doing my best with hat Ive got to work with. I have said it time and time again that I am 100% influenced in my ideas by the community- you ask, and if its fair and people agree, I give. I know I cant please everyone - but at least im trying to do SOMETHING rather than just sit back and watch the world burn. Im going to take a few things brought up here and make a few posts with some updated rules regarding membership vouches among other things. Until then, stop getting pissed at me people, I'm simply doing what you ask with what I got.

I mean we definately want to make sure the age limit stays somewhere 13+ and never go lower but lowering the age limit shouldn't make it easy. Which is why I agree that we need to take member apps more seriously, I admit sometimes I don't, and only +1 if we actually know the person. Most of the time people just plus one but don't give a decent opinion of the person. That's what membership should be based off. We want mature people, activity is nice as well, but ratings don't really show anything to other people. For all I know those ratings are from people that have seen the person once on a server. For member protests we may need an easier way to remove someone. We need to also make sure that this way can't be abused. Maybe for a member to be removed you would need a statement from a CL, if it's an issue on the forums, or a DM if it's an issue on the servers. This statement being that they have witnessed the issues leading up to the protest. Otherwise we might have people trying to spread lies and take out members they don't like based on their own issues. CLs/DMs should be trustworthy sources for this...I mean, I hope they are. D: (After reading this part again I realize that this idea is absurd, but it's all I could think of at the time) Or we keep member protests as is and just get the evidence needed. If they are as bad as you say they are then it shouldn't be hard. You could also just tell a DM about what you witnessed and they can keep their eyes open. That's just my opinion.

I suppose i couldn't properly get my point across, I'm trying to say people here don't think twice, or mostly not even once before +1'ing a member submission I myself am against the "HEY YOU DIDNT VOTE ACTIVITY MATURITY XDDD INVALID INVALID" thing because it makes absolutely no sense at all whatsoever imo. I would be cool with the whole membership application process if there wasn't the fact that you can't get someone out of the community unless you have evidence of them taking part in illegal activities what i'm trying to say is my concern is the fact that everybody can become a member and nobody can be (easily) removed from member, which is unfair take Xranth for example (people in tf2 div knows and hates him) it took about almost a year before he got banned after he INTENTIONALLY annoyed/trolled people on servers everytime he was on (he said "the fucking retards finally thought of banning me lol" or something to me on steam pm) I'm honestly just sick of people getting in the clan because of retards who vouch for anybody without actually knowing the person and the fact that you cannot get someone out of this community simply because you want to. For that reason my advice is loosening the member protest rules and letting people actually get someone kicked out within the terms of democracy and justice. I also don't support the lowered age rule because most kids can get member and become a huge pain in the ass for a lot of people for a long time without actually being banned/kicked out take me for example, i got in the clan saying i was 15 when i was actually 12 and obviously with the barely-developed brain of mine i ended up getting perma banned from all xG servers, which i did regret when i grew up and made an apology thread and the pizza challenge to get unbanned TL;DR: I suggest letting people make member protests for any reason and then (and only then) loosening the member app rules. Also I do believe in the fact "Age = Maturity"

+1 mature enough and wants it enough I'll vouch A 8 M 9

Please continue to make this out to being my sole decision instead of realizing it was discussed prior. Im simply just trying to help lighten the load, im going off of what people are talking about. Again, find me someone better for the postion and ill put it to a vote. Also, you should know none of this is permanent - if it ends up not helping at all then we remove him- simple as that. @Chrono @Lithium it would be nice to have a bit of support in these situations considering you both were consulted and agreed it wouldnt cause any harm to have an extra set of eyes Lastly, Insane said he was going to be ramping up his activity. He knows this relies on that, I feel like you of all people shoould know that Im not going to put up with BS staff.

Ah the ol xG complain-theres-no-staff-then-complain-when-someone-tries-to-help-the-situation. No ones getting demoted, and this decision was discussed by the high ups. Unless insane fucks up bad im sure he wil fill in the blanks fine. Nothing wrong with an extra hand to help at any given time. Plus hes been in xG for quite sometime. If you guys want more staff then bring people who would do a good job into the clan. Fuck me for trying to lighten the load a little bit though, right?

I mean if you boys ever want me to get serious and pull out the ol'modding dukes. I got plenty of free time.

This brings up a big problem I've been having lately, which is how fucking hard it is to moderate the server alone during peak hours. At least 60% of our playerbase is incredibly immature and theres 3 total members who aren't staff who are on ts ever, and if they're on usually a majority of the staff is on too. The only form of communication that comes to me is dumbasses spamming SLAY SLAY SLAY SLAY and me having no clue what actually happened, and nobody to ask, because theres 1 me and 24 11 year olds. It's pure chaos. I'm not honestly sure how to fix this, but having more staff members would certainly be one of the ways. I believe me, bonk, duke, syrjyrk, lithium, chrono, and orangejuice all put in a reasonable amount of time looking after the server, it's just not enough. We had what like, 20 moderators at least in css? Also, the immature mic rule (for warden, at least) needs to come back. There is so many children lately its actually horrible

Unfortunately the ban sticks, we have protocols in place for things like this and we adhere to them to set a standard for all players / members in the server. On the bright side, its just a team ban, so youre still able to play and have fun.

Generally for an accidental mass freekill, even if you slay yourself, 1-2 week ban is standard. Perm is usually reserved for intentional massers or repeat offenders. 1 week isn't long, just wait it out, and try to be careful.

i mean technically under the rules that would be a perm CT ban, slay or not. there were 4 Ts killed by you and another T (Myself) killed by another CT. reason I only made it a week is because it was a mistake that anyone could make, and you genuinely do want to be a part of the community and acknowledge your mistakes. unfortunately the rules are there for a reason, and we cant just let people slide with less than minimal punishment for breaking them. IMO a week is a nice relaxed time to become a master rebel. @Lithium @Bleed @Snackbar I would personally close this but since I was the banning admin, I shouldn't be the one to do it. unless you guys deem it reasonable to unban.

The "Must be 16+ no exceptions" policy we have (except for c0ldwinds haha whoops) is kinda stupid, but some younger than 16 are just too much. I think it should be more case-by-case, considering we have staff younger than 16 sooOOoo

He is 16. Active on JB1, JB2, Trade, and Saxton. +1 A: 7/10 M: 8/10

I think we both know you aren't 16. (n)

Division: Team Fortress 2 In-Game Name: theodore bundy Steam ID: 76561198085984093 Banned: No Previously in xG: No Active on Teamspeak: No Age: 19 Further Information: I like big butts