Elcark

To be "that guy", what happened with GHS? I was under the impression that being part of them was the only reason that kept you from applying to be a part of xG (or at least one reason) and even though people  really don't pry into multiclanning significantly, it is still a pretty important concept for membership. I wouldn't badger you to go into any detail, but some small clarification to this would be appreciated. 

Otherwise, +1. Very quiet most the time but a nice and decent person.

I'm not really one for the idea of adding bots just for the sake of having extra features. The discord seems to work as a hub for the community to interact with each other more proactively, essentially shout box but significantly better. Things that deviate from that don't really help the discord to foster the community, acting more like distractions then anything.

8 hours ago, Tatost said:

Why don't we just leave these submissions that are below the minimal time open? 12 hours is pretty easy to come by in two days if you really grind. So instead of closing them immediately, should we not leave them open until the two days are up? It would kind of suck getting having to wait 30 days to apply again because you didn't have enough time.

Leaving an app open when it's possible to get those few extra hours in two days is ideal to avoid that problem, though having those hours in the first place is still important. It's that reason I pushed to have the needed hours bumped up slightly since it's conceivably pretty easy to get just 6 hours within two days making closing any app for hours redundant, while now it's a slightly smaller window to be able to get the needed hours in time. We should still encourage people to spend time getting to know and be known around the community before applying afterall. 

A very simple solution to cut out the real negative here though (not being able to reapply for 30 days if the app is closed just because they didn't have enough hours) is to just not do that. If the only reason the app is closed is because of time, let them reapply as soon as they have the hours needed.

@mrnutty12

@virr anything to add? Otherwise should be good enough to unban him I'd wager.

3 minutes ago, Kypari said:

We have ban decay for a reason, and that is so that we can punish people appropriately depending on how long ago since their last ban. In this case, ban decay is not in effect, and since he has been banned for the exact same reason (minus the cherry on top micspam), it would certainly be a week ban. We also don't do extended mutes/gags for minor things like slurs, but rather for things like bad mics. I would not be as opposed to an extended mute had he not been banned before. Because of this and the lack of evidence and history for Eugene:

-1 For Eugene

+1 Week ban for Brian

 

For starters he was muted before the ban for screaming, so likelihood is that the slurs were more of the "cherry" of his behavior instead of being the core of it which was much more likely the micspam aspect. The fact that it was a ban for leaving to avoid punishment, meaning it would have merely been a kick instead of even an hour ban beforehand, emphasizes that this isn't such a simple case as him having been day banned for using slurs in the past and so we should extend off of it.

Extended gags as you describe them also don't apply to the same function for this situation. In the common reasoning (poor mics and similar offenses) they act in lieu of a kick, which by itself means that it is a direct second offense and the person had to be given a normal mute beforehand. That isn't the situation here since this is itself the initial mute, simply being longer due to the greater extent the offense was done (the borderline spam of it), but has nothing to do with the more recent fashion of a kick replacement. 

The timeframe for ban decay is an entirely arbitrary number, just to give a more direct indicator for when bans should be considered nullified. Taking the concept to the letter is entirely unnecessary and prevents looking at the more detailed aspects of both situations. Looking at the old ban again, this is still not a direct situation of he had been banned for using slurs before and is being banned for them again, since if that had been the majority of the problem before he would have likely just been kicked or at most received an hour ban instead of a day long one, which happened due to extra issues to that situation that don't exist here. Eight months despite not being that golden safety net of twelve is still a very long time for not having a single other punishment. Ignoring these finer details between the two punishments is in my opinion being needlessly rigid and uptight and forgoing a response to the issues that is more appropriate in favor of a longer ban time that doesn't properly reflect the extent to which the user has broken rules. 

Before this devolves any further from the actual matter at hand @kypari I will say I definitely see why you came to the conclusion you did for the punishment and respect it, even if I do feel it has too much of a "by the book" attitude to it. This was just to explain why I choose to forgo those concepts you mentioned that I was well aware of in favor of stating what I believe is a more fitting punishment for what has happened. 

So Eugene did say it once as shown (https://xenogamers.com/rank/player_histories/chat/94550), and that's it. He has never been punished in anyway for slurs before so jumping to a ban is not something that should be acceptable. The way I see it should be, and similar situations in the past have been, handled is that he should be contacted directly by staff in some manner and given a clear cut warning about it. Then the next time he breaks the rule he should receive a slightly more severe punishment then normal, but since it would still be his first punishment for slurs it should just be a longer mute at most. That is assuming he hasn't been warned by a staff member before for this in which case he should just receive the mute. This would all be much less convoluted had this just been done as a calladmin but not much can be done about that now.

Then there is Brian at the end there. This report isn't directed at him at all, yet he did the much more condemning offense. Looking at his history (https://bans.xenogamers.com/index.php?p=banlist&advSearch=STEAM_0:1:242346823&advType=s)he has been banned before for slurs, though it was tied in with micspam and leaving to avoid punishment. Being itself a single incident that involved a different kind of issue and from some time ago (about 8 months) it's not exactly a good punishment to bridge from, but unlike Eugene he still has had punishment for this before and should probably receive more then just a warning (more so considering the manner in which it was done). At that, I'd say a day mute would be adequate for the situation here.

I also really like home you omitted your own comment relating to Brian from the screenshots, but had you omitted brains entire segment I, and probably anyone else, wouldn't have even noticed what he did.

-1 ban Eugene, warn him at most

+1 punish Brian, day mute

8 minutes ago, Nicole said:

Fish is good too but seafood is a whole other category lol

It's the better category. Shrimp, lobster, crab, salmon, these are the good animals for consumption. Otherwise, Beef and pork > chicken.

13 minutes ago, Red said:

-1 

He was once on pkmn trade and said that he'll just troll the xg discord again.

don't be fools.

First off, could you prove that? Otherwise there's not much reason to assume it's true. 

Secondly then he'll just get banned again, simple as that. This is about giving a second chance and if he chooses to fuck it up again that's his choice, but since he already spent a fair amount of time banned he should be able to have that choice. 

To explain what happened a bit since this isn't the most clear;

Mjp was gagged for spamming on the discord, after which he began to spam people in the discord individually through dm's, so he was banned.

Admitting to and apologizing for fucking up post punishment doesn't undo it, and you should still receive your punishment. That being said, it has been a fair amount of time (a month or so I believe?) and I'd probably lean towards an unban for now, though with the next case being a more permenant ban.

12 minutes ago, TheSupremePatriot said:

But why do people need to say it in the first place? What is gained out of saying a word that is offensive to people? What is the humor in it? The way I see it, there is absolutely nothing gained and there is no humor or comedic appeal to it.

And that is your view point, but clearly from the way it has been treated as well as other offensive words by a great deal of other people, not a universal opinion. 

14 minutes ago, TheSupremePatriot said:

If someone doesn’t want you to use a word because it offends them or makes them uncomfortable, you should respect it. No one should have to (client-side) mute anyone, it’s a thing called common courtesy... not that hard.

8 minutes ago, Nozomi said:

 Our clan/servers are suppose to make people feel welcomed, their suppose to have fun. They shouldn't have to worry that they'll be ridiculed or not. 

Why should someone be needlessly limited to what they can and can't use by grounds that they must be absolutely using it in a derogatory sense when the word is viewed by the greater part of society not to be limited in such a manner (While other derogatory slurs again such as nigger are, which is why they aren't allowed)? It also brings us right back to how there is any number of insults that people will feel ridiculed about and have similar connotation (autistic/retard) and trying to go through and censor every one of them is an implausible task. Only going through and limiting certain ones would only be doable by personal opinion and not actual view-ship of how the words are treated as we already do censor in that way, being those extreme taboo racial and ethnic slurs. Having an environment where people are going to be immune to ridicule is entirely impossible, which is why staff exist in the first place. Unless staff are incapable of maintaining this environment without imposing ever increasing strictness  on everyone, there's no reason to do this. Making people welcome goes both ways as well. People need to both be able to be treated with respect but also have the liberty to do as they please so long as they uphold this first part. If the time having faggot allowed has shown anything is that it is entirely plausible for the word to be used openly without violating that first aspect, otherwise it would have been cracked down on far sooner. 

Please ban every word in this list.

The terminology of a slur is incredibly broad, the concept of banning all slurs is not as simple as disallowing a small handful of words. Cunt is a genderphobic slur. Tranny is a sexual slur. Cheesehead and hillbilly are ethnic slurs. Disallowing the great variety of words that can easily be defined as a slur is something that has been in the community narrowed down to a number of notable ethnic slurs, but why is that? As far as I believe, expectations of behavior derived from societal norms. It is not uncommon to see a variety of words such as bitch and fag that can be defined as slurs be used openly to an extent they are words you can hear multiple times a day and nothing would be out of the norm. Breaking out some of the more notorious racial slurs such as chink, kike, or nigger are not something you will see used at all by a much greater extent and are viewed negatively practically universally. Ethnic slurs like this have a much stronger taboo rooted to them that sees even uttering them as unacceptable, a taboo which faggot does not have to the same extent. Famous pieces of literature such as "To Kill a Mocking Bird" and "Huckleberry finn" (and other works of Mark Twain I believe) have received such censorship over these slurs to see them banned from schools in more then one occasion, while this is not the case for sexual and gender slurs. To put it simply, faggot is just not seen negatively to the same extent as the aforementioned racial and ethnic slurs by society as a whole. 

The etymology of the word faggot has received harsher criticism over time of course, but so have a great many. Autistic is very often used in an equally negative sense and is viewed harshly because of this. The same goes for retard, though to a much greater extent in recent times to the point the word is discouraged to be used entirely in some places even when not used in a direct negative way. Banning faggot would be hypocritical in itself if we did not take into consideration other words that exist on similar levels of disdain within society these days, but what is the likely hood that this community is going to view such words in such an extreme light?

This community has spent at least two years functioning fine in this same mindset that faggot does not necessarily quantify the same connotation as the racial slurs we don't allow. It by all means can and is used in an insulting and disrespectful manner, just like practically anything can, and the situations that this happens have always been handled appropriately without having to resort to such an extremity as this. The only reason I would personally feel it is a necessary act would be if we believed either the community was incapable of behaving in a mature enough manner to use this word without absolutely meaning it to be derogatory or if it was believed our staff were incapable of properly knowing how to differentiate between the two cases. Otherwise, it is straight up a matter of constraints on the entire population for the personal felt benefit of a smaller portion. The phrasing "xG is becoming safe space" is an extreme way of expressing it's intended concept, but in this case at it's root that phrasing is entirely accurate. 

3 minutes ago, ABlueSkittle123 said:

In this case its better overall to just stick with the original.

Not necessarily. The prospect of new effects is pretty neat and the plugin being newer could possibly have better functionality. We should keep the new version, it just needs to be adjusted and fixed for better compatibility with the server before being used (assuming it can be).

This shouldn't even be a thread. The plugin needs to be looked at role by role so that those that need to be altered or disabled can been done before throwing them on the server and it especially should have been removed when the more damaging exploit became obvious until that can be fixed.

1 minute ago, Red said:

koth_delivery_rc4 is from Call of Duty series from a map called shipment.

The person who made the map was inspired to make it just like all the maps we have on the server which are inspired from other games.

You're missing the point that all the maps you mentioned have an actual design and aesthetic to them. They are unique from any other map in design from their appearance to their layout. 

This map here is made effectively from the same single stock tf2 asset over and over and has the visual creativeness of droping a bunch of legos on the floor. There's nothing that makes this map actually distinguishable. 

1 hour ago, Tekage said:

Hug

DEV.BUKKIT.ORG

---

Hug

A plugin for hug and kiss, with a few extras

I don't think a minecraft plugin would be exactly compatible.... 

We've removed several minecraft maps before and kept the two we have because they are generally considered better than most and that most are very mediocre and similar. There really is no harm in adding this one to see though and i'd consider +1ing it based on the quality of the map itself as opposed to it being "another minecraft map".

The second map is literally just a bunch of crates. That is probably the most bland uninspired thing I've ever seen suggested for the server. 

14 hours ago, Caleb956 said:

+1 for the kiss/hug plugin IF we set a cooldown on it so people can't spam it, otherwise -1

It doesn't serve any function besides spam. I could be wrong, but as far as im aware it doesn't do anything besides fill up chat. I'd rather not even get into the more dilutable  problems that already people are edging towards about this but do honestly think this fosters away from the "for everyone" feel to the servers since there will undoubtably be people who turned away from first impressions of the implications of what the servers are like because of something like this.

14 hours ago, Tekage said:

 If there were new titles or some kind of store bought perk I think the math plugin would be excellent.

Having new things to spend credits on is something sought after in general, it's just a matter of what since something like new titles aren't exactly all that enticing. There was a few concepts debated in the past with the most prominent being "auras", which are actually available on the csgo servers but never worked right on tf2 from what I know.

11 minutes ago, Forest said:

But again, this is assuming that the same guidelines have been enforced since then- otherwise, I see no reason why it was ever abolished.

It never was undone, this is how it has always been treated (with demo's always being strongly urged even when either of the other requirements are meet). Having evidence for suspicion for hacking isn't equivalent to actual proof nor is it an exact science telling when someone is. People do and always have recorded demos for these situations, but that doesn't remove the margin for error of just straight up being mistaken. 

21 minutes ago, grap_grop said:

Even regular members can check that he’s played more on xG than a lot of our staff. That should already be a straight giveaway that he’s not some chump change dime-a-dozen aimwarebox idiot.

If he is actually recognizable absolutely,  lots of people have accused him of such and quickly turned around when they realize it is him (same for other decent players on the server before such as bless). When he is under a completely random alias, a private profile, and appearing like some of numerous hackers that visit the server though, that makes it pretty much impossible for anyone who doesn't have him added to actually be able to identify him under this presumption. 

1 hour ago, Tatost said:

This is the second time this guy has been banned for 'cheating.' Jo is just a fucking legend tbh

Fifth actually.

Stop coming on as a private profile smurf and people might stop mistaking you as a throw away hacking account. Probably not, but maybe. 

winSCP

After you have access to the control panel, the next thing you will need is winSCP, the FTP client that we use to access file transfer between the server host and private clients. You'll have to setup a link to each server individually using the FTP info found on the File Manager of the control panel. When you have those added it'll look something like this:

When it comes to plugins, there are three main folders you will need to interact with all located in the pathway /tf/addons/sourcemod/

• The plugins folder, which holds the .smx files for plugins which are the core for all plugins
• The scripting folder,  which holds the .sp text files for all plugins. These serve no actual functioning purpose and are instead stored here in case alterations to the plugin itself need to be made, which we'll go over how to turn a .sp file into a .smx file latter.
• The configs folder, which holds the .cfg config text files for any plugins that have them. These consist of the changeable cvars for plugins and serve as the primary way to make any changes to them.

If a plugin does not come with a config file, it may make one after being loaded. These will usually end up in the /tf/cfg/sorucemod/ folder, otherwise any cvar's a plugin has can be added to the server.cfg (/tf/cfg) and worked from there. This file will also be used for any tf2 specific cvar's for the server such as map time, team scramble, forced holiday, etc.  

SPEdit

In the rare case a change needs to be made directly to a plugin, you'll need to download the SPEdit tool to be able to compile the file into a usable plugin. After you have it installed, here is what you'll need to do.

• Create a folder to house the sourcemod include files. These are found in the /sourcemod/scripting/ folder on every server and what you'll need is the compile.sh, spcomp.sh, and the include folder and it's contents (these three things should be separate in the folder you make, do not put the compile or spcomp files in the include folder). Alternatively you can install a fresh version of sourcemod and take the files from there, but it may not have all of the files inside the include folder you need for whatever plugin you are working on, in which case just take those individual files from the server with the plugin. 
• Next you'll have to set up a configuration in SPEdit. To do this, open it up and go to Configuration, Edit configurations. Make a new one naming it whatever you want and set up the directory to wherever the folder you created is.  

• Now you'll just need to do any editing to the plugin you plan to do using the plugins .sp text file. You can either open it in SPEdit and do it there or do it beforehand in notepad (or whatever you choose to open the file) and then open the already edited plugin in spedit. 
• Once you are done editing and the plugin is opened and ready, you'll just need to use Build, and Compile the file. You'll now have a compiled .smx file that can be added to the server.

Other Common Tasks

Adding Maps 

1. Put the map file in the /tf/custom/old_custom_files/maps folder
2. Open the server's Easy Setup control on NFO, heading down to the bottom to the map cycle
3. At the bottom of the list type out the map name fully and then add it to the cycle 
4. Commit Changes, and be sure to websync afterwards
5. To remove a map, all that needs to be done is for it to be deleted from the cycle 

Updating the Calladmin bot

1. Go to /tf/addons/sourcemod/configs/calladmin_steam_steamidlist.cfg file and add or remove the steam id's for anyone who should be sent calladmin reports. 
2. Adding people to the calladmin's friends list so it can send messages is done manually. You'll need to get the steam username and password from a current higher up to access it.

Adding Custom Titles

1. This is done from the store control panel. You'll need to open items, add new item.
2. The various inputs are pretty self explanatory and can be glanced at an existing title to know how to fill each out. 
3. Find any users you will be giving the title and add it to their items. The newest items will be at the bottom of the drop down list.

Editing Powers

1. This is done entirely from sourcebans. For anyone receiving powers for the first time, go to the admin panel and add new admin.
2. Fill out the admin details appropriately. The only ones that actually matter are their login and steam id. The rest can just be entirely made up, but do still need to be filled out regardless.
3. Be sure to check off the tf2 server access group then select the appropriate Server Admin and Web Admin (if any) groups at the bottom.

-1

8 minutes ago, Shadower said:

why call this a "population" when it's obviously a community event?

usually when things are populated, they stay populated, these are just "lol lets see how long these guys will stay on until their groups of friends leave"

you guys should try making some of these gamemodes better or not fudgeing broken lol.

Weren't you going to "populate" jailbreak a month ago? How many times did you even log onto that server? It doesn't matter what it's called, the intent is the same; encourage server activity often enough it doesn't require an event as people start to join it on their own. Getting on a couple friends and just sitting there for awhile isn't what these are, it's calling on and getting a larger group together that attracts more people to filter in. This is what has allowed times like when two or three people start up freak fortress lead to it being active for several hours even after the original players have left and then being started back up again by entirely new people latter.

If you have any suggestions for changes to servers or issues that need to be fixed then you should actually pitch them if you expect anything to happen.