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I fail to see how a slightly rude, on-topic response is considered equal to the detrimental lashing of someone's social status, especially when it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. If you honestly feel that both parties are equally at fault here, you probably should reread through that thread, because you missed something. Stop trying to use analogies to compare this situation. It's inaccurately representing what is happening here. This isn't a car crash or a fist fight. It's cyber-bullying, plain and simple, which is AGAINST our rules. Did Moosty respond in a rude way? Sure. Did he cyber-bully Kitty in that thread? Absolutely not. His posts were on-point and on-topic. It was KITTY who took it out of context. It was KITTY who dragged it to an unnecessary level. It is KITTY that causes these issues, has been causing these issues, and CONTINUES to cause these issues. She does not exemplify what we should be striving to achieve here at xG in the least and MUST be removed, lest this division loses a LOT of outstanding members. It is clear that her presence is no longer desired by a LARGE MAJORITY of our division. Something needs to be done about it. If the incorrect action is taken, or worse, if NO action is taken, we will lose members who are sick and tired of this same song and dance, week after week. It's not a threat, it's a reality. If this is handled poorly, the TF2 Division as we currently know it WILL LOSE a lot of people. Mark my words.

Ever since the fallout that happened from the Kitty thread, I have begun to dislike her in greater increments with every single post she makes on these boards. I ignored her antagonizing after she lost her moderator privileges. I turned the other cheek when she began complaining about her terrible luck in MvM and how "bad" of a game TF2 is. I held my tongue when she began insulting and talking ill of others in this clan. But I can't stand by idly anymore and watch this shit happen, especially to someone who is as high of a caliber a person as Moosty is. @Kittylicious , you should be ashamed of your actions. If you aren't, it only goes to show how begotten and vile you are as a person. You have literally had EVERYTHING given to you on a silver platter; your mod powers included, yet all you can seem to do with that is brew trouble. You blatantly go out of your way to disrespect and antagonize the people of this community. I once stood by your side and supported you in the past, but I can't support someone who would laugh at someone else's misfortune the way you have done. If there's anything you need to learn from this, it's that you have a hell of a lot of growing up to do. I +1 Moosty's permanent ban request. Kitty is EVERYTHING we should be looking to rid ourselves from this clan if we are to make it a better community. Kitty "left" ages ago, but for some reason, she is still here. I think it's time we MADE her leave. I would wish you well in your future endeavors Kitty, but I don't believe you have shown that same courtesy to anyone else since you've been here. Just....leave. You are no longer welcome.

So KB and myself have been talking and after recent events we're cracking down. No more nice guys, no more favoritism, nothing. TF2 Division has literally turned in to the shitstorm and scum of all of xG and this is the end. If ANYONE else at this point can not get along with the other people in this division, and in other divisions, you WILL be stripped of all staff powers and/or removal of membership and/or forum ban. There is no need to insult people over a screen. You may think you're witty or funny or maybe you think the shit you say doesn't affect people. People have feelings. You don't know what's going on in someone's life, and like real life, your actions will have consequences. @kbraszzz @Nomulous @Community Leader

+/- 0. Why? I'll start with the following: 1.1 - Anyone using the most recent thread as a means of opinion is incredibly biased. After looking over the first page, it is apparent that Moosty instigated the whole damn thing with what he said, hence I deleted it. Should I have to, I can quote the moment he stepped too far in his ways. God forbid we ever get a thread that doesn't end up in a shit storm. The problem isn't the person, the problem is the way our Members react and reply to threads. I see so many acts of hostility on these things that it makes me shake my head. As a reminder, if you're going to instigate and cause a flame war with someone, you should damn well expect them to retaliate to it. No one's made of steel. 1.2 - And to those of you who think I'm siding with Kitty, I'm not. After a quick look at most of her posts, it is apparent that she is the type of person who takes great pride in what she says, does, and whatever position she is currently in. This behaviour results in a "I'm better than you" perspective, and I can see why those of you get upset over it. However, with that said, there wasn't an instance of this behaviour on that thread before the instigation. Again, proof of this can be provided should it be requested. 1.3 - I will also agree that the attitude toward TF2 as well as the TF2 Division needs to stop. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but when someone is spouting off against something day in/day out it starts to become a problem, especially when part of it applies to one of our very own Divisions. While this is certainly a problem, I don't see it as a bannable offense so much as it is something to be warned of. For those of you who are angered with all of the warnings, keep in mind that these are in regards to different offenses, and therefore do not stack on each other. A quick example would be banning someone for freekilling because they broke a different rule that doesn't involve freekilling. While drastic, it is still a proper example and should obviously not happen. 1.4 - Finally, you're right, I have no idea why I still have powers. But as I said in that thread, I'll be damned if I let this stupid behaviour continue. Any other Staff could have stepped in, but it is obvious that they were busy or MIA, therefore I took it upon myself to stop all of the bullshit going on in there, so sue me. Maybe I'll finally have my powers taken away for doing something that should have been done, am I right? Those of you who are basing your judgement from that thread alone need to check yourself, just saying. All I see are Members who are trying their hardest to use broken evidence (those using the previous thread as a basis for their vouch mind you) to boot someone, much like when a Member nitpicks about a Staff Member because they simply do not like them. I would also like to point out that just because someone is well known and popular, that doesn't mean they should automatically be in the right. This is in regards to mentions of Moosty being a "level-headed person". Hell, if I say something out of line or do something out of line, call me out on it. I know @Chrono does in a heart beat because he does what's right, and more often than not, he's right. Even here where Moosty thinks I did wrong in acting on a potential hazardous situation, which I am not saying was wrong. He is right, I shouldn't interfere with the affairs of another Division, let alone at all as I am just a Member, but I have my reasons for doing so which I have mentioned above (Point 1.4). I won't have a TL;DR for this post as it is all honest opinion as well as reasoning, sorry folks. Those who care enough will give it a read. - Dat guy, Forest

Alright. What has Moosty done in this situation: Rejected Kitty's idea, called her salty, asked why she was still around (Kitty responds without seeming upset) Then he replies to her long post, can kind of see how this is provocative, although still borderline rude. What has Kitty done: Responded to Moosty's post calling her salty and asking why she is still around. Essentially doesn't seem bothered by Moosty's post (never once called it rude or disrespectful), but answered all his questions and made it clear she doesn't want to be here. Out of the blue, 9001% off the topic of the thread, Kitty says "Shouldn't you be begging for food at the homeless shelter? tramp." That right there is retaliation. In case you didn't know, I personally warned Kitty quite a while ago to never retaliate and to get help if there is an issue, if she did retaliate there would be severe consequences. Oh and by the way, I can't believe you would EVER say this to someone, it crosses the line by miles. So what does that mean? Kitty is gonna be banned for this (you know, like permed), she knew very well how to handle the situation and went against prior warnings. No more small bans, she had a last chance and its over now. What about Moosty? Yes, we can perm him as well, but I don't see how that provides any benefit... Kitty gets banned, situation resolved. We ban moosty on top of that... really what benefit does the community get? IMO kitty has stuck around to cause problems (shoutbox especially). We certainly haven't had to deal with anything in regards to Moosty since his ban. Kind of a crappy explanation but here is what should happen: Kitty is getting permed. Community decides if Moosty stays or gets permed as well.

Okay, clearing some things up, i'm a 20 year old man, i don't want to bitch about or fight with a thirteen year old girl on the internet, it doesn't sound fun to me, I wouldn't have made this thread if i didn't feel a line was crossed. people saying i'm just trying to personally attack kitty are wrong, i got that out of my system in picture form months ago, and since then, her and i mutually decided to delete all traces of that picture and made amends, Her and I had talked about poverty jokes before when she did it the first time, and i accepted that apology. but her saying something she promised not to say ever again because i disagreed with her about chat binds opened up an old wound and i don't come here to be ridiculed. that's why this thread was made.

How was it not instigated? To put it in another set of words, what Moosty basically said was "No, your idea sucks, we should keep it how it is and be more immature just to troll you." I don't know about you, but if someone was shooting down my idea specifically because they know it will get on my nerves and piss me off, I would be pretty damn pissed. It was instigated, however that does not make it right. Hidingmaster saying "we are past equal punishment" is honestly laughable in my opinion, if both are causing the same problem, then they should both be equally punished or not punished. "I don't hate kitty but, you're fucking dumb" is essentially what a lot of people are posting, and if you look at it, a lot of you guys are moosty's friends, seems pretty biased/one-sided if you ask me, where is the objectivism from people? My Proposal: A) Ban them both, equal length in time, no possibility for protest, not perm. B) Ban them both, perm, if one is unbanned via protest, the other is as well. C) Do not ban them, make it known this shit is not going to be tolerated. And option D) which is one that is forced upon you, after choosing one of the above: If shit happens again, ban the one trying to instigate it immediately, permanently. not just forums, servers as well.

@DrLee There's no more room for "even and fairly" banning someone for this. One of them will be permanently banned. We've dealt with this enough and they know better, it's time we end the problem once and for all.

Yeah, I'm going to have to +1 this as well. That thread tonight was an absolute train wreck. I've seen the threads Kitty has posted concerning her being cyberbullied in the past, and I can certainly sympathize with that, but turning around and becoming the bully yourself, especially after people have apologized to you and have attempted to move on with their lives, isn't right at all. I know that Kitty seemingly decided to leave xG and even wrote that she would not be affiliating herself with the clan anymore. While I wouldn't see any issue with her sticking around to chat to people, it's evident that she seems to constantly bring up how bad a game TF2 is, as well as instigate fights with other members. Kitty, you need to be the better person here, don't stoop down to becoming a bully yourself. Bringing someone's social class into a thread just to make fun of them and taunting them because they apparently are less wealthy then you is immature to the utmost degree. I mean, telling someone they should be begging for food at a homeless shelter, really? Especially when you are fully aware that the person has had/currently has financial issues? Really? There is a line between joking and knowing you've gone too far. You KNOW that you went too far and still decided to keep on going, and that's not right. Honestly, whatever happens I hope that you are able to see the issues going on here, Kitty. I don't wish anything bad on you, but you need to understand that your current behavior needs to stop.

Disrespect in this thread and you'll be banned for 1 week+. I ain't dealing with this crap again. Anyway, right now I see more benefits in perm banning Kitty as it would stop a lot of the issues going on. +1

there is also the time where she even stated she abused me and nothing was done about it

I can confirm

rip in peace @my sides and @yourforum privileges

Division: MMO In-Game Name: Kittylicious Offender's Steam ID: STEAM_0:1:29168923 Rules Broken: Trolling/Bullying Evidence: Gyazo - ecca6f43802c19eb2e655faf8f0b1658.png calling me names in shoutbox when i'm not even in shoutbox Gyazo - 6fceb4ebcaffce04b7393280344d7bd3.png telling me to shut up and go beg for food Request for a new chat rule regarding keybind usage. in this thread she told me this: "shut up and go beg for food at a homeless shelter, tramp" but it was deleted by @Forest before i could screencap and use it for evidence. he can confirm it was there. He also deleted a comment from @Bach with more evidence that kitty has been doing nothing but starting problems on the forums since she left, but hey, forest can delete things from divisions he isnt even a part of without asking first i guess. I'm done. Kitty leaving the clan, over a month ago, yet she is still here instigating shitstorms and providing nothing of actual value to the community I'm sick of nothing being done about this, not being able to afford food is hard enough without some kid on the internet not shutting up about how I can't afford food. I've been forced to eat at a Homeless shelter before, and it sucks ass. I know most people here still live with mom and dad so they don't know how finances are in the real world, but someone not being able to buy food and getting a notice of eviction isn't a fucking joke, being hungry and not knowing when you are going to eat again is fucking scary. This is the third time she has done this, and I'm sick of it, she didn't even pretend to apologize this time because she thought it was funny. My financial troubles aren't some punchline for a kid on the internet. This shit happening again makes me not want to come back, it drained all the good out of my week. she left the clan over a month ago, all she does on this site anymore is instigate problems and complain about how bad of a game tf2 is. she isn't offering anything of value to the community, she ridicules people in poverty and talks about how upper class her family is in every thread. I see no reason for her to be around anymore, and i motion that we ban her so that this bickering and shitstorming can end. I'm not having fun anymore, this is a serious issue to me, i'm actually upset by what she said today, and I wan't it to stop. tagging people who should be tagged @Kittylicious @kbraszzz @Bach @Forest @DrLee @ThePenguin @Gawd @Hidingmaster @diabeetus @Nomulous

Can we please just all hug it out and be happy that we all have computers, internet, and life. Pls. This post war is giving me hives.

#savemoosty

I hate to see our members reduced to this. I want to believe that we are better than petty insults and disrespect. It's a concept that even the 7-year-olds I teach can easily grasp, so why is it so difficult for the members of this clan? I understand tensions are high. I understand the "He Said, She Said" game, probably better than most of our staff considering my profession. I just want it all to end. SOLUTION: @Moosty, @Kittylicious ...there is an option on the forums to ignore one another. Use it. Don't interact. Don't further the issue. Just leave each other the fuck alone. It's escalated to an unnecessary level. Be the bigger person in this situation and just squash it. It's about time that this Jerry Springer drama shit come to an end. It's damaging much more than just to the two people involved. I want to feel sorry and support everyone involved, but I just can't do it. I want to find an appropriate solution for EVERYONE, but even I don't know what is appropriate for this meaningless bullshit. You're going to encounter assholes throughout life, but you don't have a right to silence them. They can be an asshole all they want. All you can do is ignore them, so let's do that here. Moosty put it very well in the thread that was derailed. "IMMATURITY IS FUN, ITS LITERALLY WHAT WE DO ALL DAY." But the issue here is that the amount of enjoyment from people being immature is very subjective, and it can turn to insult and hurt VERY quickly. I won't be one to deny that it is a hell of a lot of fun just to cut loose and act like a moron sometimes, but we have all got to learn a sense of control when we go about doing it. We have ALL got to learn where the line lies and how far we can toe it before "Immaturity" turns to "Disrespect." We're better than this. Our clan is capable of so much more than this. We should be able to compromise and work things out. We shouldn't have to resort to playing this bureaucratic game of favoritism and popularity just to get a point across. Stop digging the hole and just climb out and fill it. Please.

The outcome of this thread determines my future with this clan. Just so you all know. There is a clear, correct solution here. Higher ups better not fuck this up.

Update If you enjoy the idea and current content, like us on Facebook What New People Say | Facebook and follow us on twitter WhatNewPeopleSay (@WatNewPeopleSay) | Twitter please and thanks! Like and share our content so we can grow! So I made a new website What New People Say: Here we showcase what any new player says, whether funny or stupid. and basically I need people to share stories and ideas so I can make a background picture with the quote on it. Kthxbai for being useful <3 In other words, I started a new website that'll be based on how new people who start playing games or gamemodes say stupid naive stuff that everyone knows is pretty common sense. If you know these, you can either email a submission from the website or just post it here using the same structure. Game: [Game Name] Gamemode: [if Applicable] Class: [user's Class] Quote(s):

#oldxG ;3 #uallneedInsane

@Moosty I want your children. Oof

Hug war not flame war

#MuzzlesMom #Oof

#savemoosty #oof ?

I've grown to love this group and its members ever since I first stumbled upon it when I was first starting out in TF2, I support this +1

Well then. IF YOU FONT WANT YOUR FACE PHOTOSHOPPED MY BE PLEASE SEND ME A MESSAGE! I WILL NOT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY ANGER TWRDS ME IF YOU DO NOT SAY. I'll be making sure everyone gets that message.

@Hachi why does it have to be just kitty getting punishment? I guess I should bring up this idea again: If 2 people are fighting, and a cop rolls up and sees it, he isn't going to stop, watch, and try to determine who threw first, who threw harder than the other, instead he will act and subdue the fight. arresting both, not just one if need be. he won't arrest only the guy on the left because there was a group of friends around the guy on the right, he would arrest both, or make sure both walk away in opposite directions and warn them that that shit could have consequences.

@Kittylicious I request greatly we hear your side of this story.

As requested by @Moosty . Before I elaborate, just know that this is in no way to be taken personally. What may not look like an instigation to some, is to others. This was an unwarranted aggressive reply to a perfectly legitimate proposal to prevent spam (albeit for a particular set of words/keystrokes). I'm hoping that after the amount of time from posting, you'll realize how this can result in someone replying in a negative way, and ultimately resulting in a flame war from both ends. While I can understand why you would get upset, in no way should you have reacted the way you did when kitty chose to defend herself (and likewise with what kitty said later). Again; both parties are at fault here, not picking any favourable sides but merely pointing out an act of instigation.

Whats operation paper clip - every new xg member ever.

it was deleted by @Forest before i could screencap and use it for evidence. (snip) but hey, forest can delete things from divisions he isnt even a part of without asking first i guess. first off, forest is a very well respected member of this community. Attaining the rank of FormerCo-Leader and he manages to help maintain the few things that really need handled well when there is nobody else around to do it. Second off, if something is on the forums, it isn't a division. just because it is under the TF2 div section of the forums does not mean if I go in there and all I see is shitposting, and bm, that I wont instantly ban the fuck out of you. If it deserves some action done to it, it is going to be done, it's not "well i'm from TF2, and he came from CS:S, so whatever I do, he can't do anything about." there wasn't an instance of this behaviour on that thread before the instigation. I reviewed some of it, they were instigated from what I saw. Age old story, Don't talk shit unless you are ready to get shit, aka, talk shit get shit. While yes, someone needs to be the better person, if you talk shit, then cry when shit is sent back your way, I couldn't give a fuck less. Like stated and (mostly) agreed upon by other higher ups in 1-on-1 cases of things, if someone is going to go at it with another, and the other is going at it back, then I vote to either: ban them both, or ban neither of them and tell them they will both be banned the next time it is seen. Yes she left, we get it, I haven't seen a single thread she posted in where there hasn't been mention of her leaving previously and to "fuck off already". get over it, I left one time too, I came back about a half a year to a year later, got DL. some stay, some go, some are just lost, get over it. does her posting on a forum threaten your life? no, so why the fuck do you care that she posts on here? you don't have to read what she says, there is always the option to ignore them and be the bigger person. oh wait, I forgot, neither side here will ignore the other to be the bigger person, because both sides are childish little brats who get themselves off on trying to start shit. neither person is right, you're both wrong, if hidingmaster (and higher ups) really want to ban kitty, as annoying as I find her, I find you guys just as annoying with your shit you do. and if the decision is to ban her, then I believe that you also should receive the exact same punishment, in both length and remorse, if one is allowed to be unbanned (if it is perm and we know how those are), then the other gets unbanned as well. that way none of this "just ban them both, everyone likes him and not her, so we can get him unbanned after."

======================== @Robster The double-standard in a nutshell. ======================== @Kittylicious I've honestly no idea on why things have to be this way. That comment: "Shouldn't you be begging for food at the homeless shelter? Tramp." made my blood boil. This is beyond mundane, never in my life have I seen such bastardised arrogance directed at someone in the midst of a disagreement over something so meagre - a videogame. At what point is it appropriate to compare yourself to someone less fortunate than you to feel important; not to mention, something that is thoroughly irrelevant? Don't get me wrong, that previous incident wasn't/isn't something to undermine, but your attempt to degrade him after amends were made is undoubtedly disgraceful. And another thing, if you honestly dislike this community, then why are you still here? ======================== +1

Tbh, being bullied is hardly a reason to bully somebody, especially when you didn't have anything wrong with them and/or they apologized to you previously when it all ended, that's just called being immature, and maybe even a hypocrite!

+1 I am in support of this 100%. Kitty "left" the clan, but still comes to our forums and servers. If TF2 is SUCH a terrible game, why are you still playing it? Financial issues are a huge issue, period. She knows he doesn't like it, similar to how @John_Madden doesn't like 9/11. I refrain from talking about 9/11 when he's around, and I wouldn't even think about making poor people jokes with Moosty. Not cool at all. She's been an issue for a long time now.

also @kbraszzz and @Nomulous, @Stickz has spoken to us on a rare occasion and in another division no less, listen to his wisdom for we might not see it again.

nah it shouldn't be a rule, but the fact is, can we PLEASE make a plugin that perms everyone who uses the lenny face emoticon? Christ i can feel the cancer through my monitor when all i see in chat is LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY LE LENNY. jesus christ.

Haha @Kypari Certain binds are annoying but I don't think its really necessary to make a rule against them. Spamming them is considered as chat spam which will result a warning and if necessary gag.

#savemoosty

#savemoosty Make it trend

@Moosty If someone thinks that 2+2=5, no matter how wrong they are, it doesn't give you the right to insult them and attack them. The mature thing to do is disagree politely and explain why you think so. You are just as much at fault as kitty.

I may have argued with her about tf2, but I came nowhere close to the line she crossed over. And even when she brought money into it the first time I tried to deflect and get things back on topic, I could have torn her apart arguing about privilege and wealth, but I didn't, I tried to deflect so it wouldn't escalate, but she escalated it anyway. We were both arguing. But person A debating chat binds and person B calling person A poor and themselves rich, and telling person A to be jealous, it isnt fucking cool. Especially from someone who isnt part of the clan, what happened to sticking up for members and staff, obviously one of us cares far more about this place or I would be gone like she is.

+1 this kind of harassment is so uncalled for. Let alone how much she looks down on xG because she "hates it" but we all are aware she left because she was demoted for something she started. Calling us immature and mocking the xG community is just immature in her case. Making jokes about someone's life style and the struggles people go through is very uncalled for and there is no reason for it at all. That's all I have to say

I understand that you don't want it to be a shitstorm, but this is pretty ridiculous, even for this place. Mostly because Moosty is pretty much known for being modest and level-headed. I don't think anybody aside from her has had major issues with him. It kinda puts the severity of this into perspective, all pathetic immaturity aside.

I dont think ive ever seen anybody advertising in our servers. Why that was even brought up I don't know because it never happens. (Inb4 somebody points out I was server permed for advertising in 2013)

@Forest you smell, and you're british

funny, cute, kind, generous, trustworthy

0/10 needs more baby sun.

The picture to follow up Scootaloo's video > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQSIRgOjTLI

This was just disturbing.