Forest

Do keep in mind that there are many contributing factors to how often you may see an applicant which is why it is rarely a legitimate reason to negatively vouch for someone (unless the rank site shows otherwise). Most prominently, the largest factor is the possible time-zone difference between yourself and the applicant. Like Aegean said, there are 24 hours in a day which allows huge flexibility in terms of when a Player actually hops on the Server. At the time you may be playing, the applicant may be in school or at work, and vice-versa. Additionally, you should only be negatively vouching if you have a valid reason to be doing so. If nothing comes to mind, you should not be going out of your way to dig up some dirt on the applicant, so-to-speak. If the applicant plays on a Server that you do not play on, then you should have no sway on that application (assuming this is your only reason to negatively vouch). Of course you can give your opinion on the applicant if you have a reasonable understanding of their character or have interacted with him/her, but again, you should not be negatively vouching based on how often you see the applicant as this is completely subjective and otherwise unfair due to the number of Players who don't play on every Server but have a selective one or two of which they prefer.

Also, just for reference in case anyone isn't familiar (source: Want To Get Unbanned? ):

The oath has been fulfilled. This man's debt to Xeno Gamers' society has been paid.

So, I'm curious to know as I've noticed that whenever a mass closure of Member Subs (Accepted/Declined) happens, it ends up completely filling the New Posts section of the Forums. I realize that it isn't common for this to happen, but it does happen every month or so and it completely buries all other threads (in general, not just Member Subs) which can effectively shut down the visibility of a thread or anything. I'm wondering if there was some sort of change or function that could be implemented for Higher-Ups to utilize when dealing with the closure of a Member Submission? As an example, maybe a checkbox of sorts [Accepted/Declined] that will notify the user who posted the thread that their Application was Accepted or Declined that only Higher-Ups could access? In other words, anything that could effectively replace a Higher-Up from actually posting in the thread (thus bumping it in Recent Posts) to prevent excess bumping of Member Submissions and the burying of other [un]related posts/threads @Rhododendron @Aegean EDIT: @virr raised a good point that the "Delete thread" process could be re-worked or otherwise improved on for this sort of thing as it notifies the User. Is there a way this could be utilized for new options such as "Accepted" or "Declined" that closes the thread and notifies?

Not sure what the status is on this whole thing, but I just wanted to bump this thread in case it slipped through the cracks as I still believe a user-friendlier experience is key in an increase in regulars and activity @Aegean

Will a more indepth thread be made in the xG-News section of the Forums? Just curious as it would receive better saturation than it would here in the General section (especially because it applies to Xeno Gamers as a whole)

I believe he was referring to the fact that because TF2 is free, people can make spoof accounts when an account gets banned. No sense in adding people when you know you'll eventually be caught for hacking after all, hence the high-rate of accounts being used for hacking with little to no friends. That being said, there's a reason why the Admin Handbook (while outdated) has/had the following rule in place: Not everyone shares the same perspective which can result in situations such as this, which is why it's important for there to be multiple Staff to witness the event. Obviously there are exceptions, but nonetheless it's still a good rule of thumb, especially if lag is a common occurrence.

@ItsAaron

I suppose it makes sense, but at the same time it just feels like the bar has been set too low to gain full-membership. It's worrisome because what if a Member Application only receives one positive vouch that is simply "seen him around on servers, he's pretty fun +1" during that two day period, with no negative vouches or anything? As the rule currently stands (assuming this is the polished final product): It just seems like this system is heavily dependent on those who vouch immediately on a Member Submission (based on the fact that the applicant will be accepted, not can be accepted), which is either incredibly rare, or the vouches themselves are no where near detailed enough. With the way it is currently set, the Guidelines seem to put a lot more emphasis on why someone shouldn't be permitted to gain full-membership instead of why they should be. That being said, it isn't inherently bad or anything. It just feels less like a Member Submission and more like a minor hurdle to jump over; just barely one step over what someone has to do to join the Xeno Gamers Steam Group. Also, just for the sake of debate, I'm only voicing my concerns, not trying to step this whole thing into the ground. Apologies in advance if it seems that way. Annnd just thought I'd mention this: not sure if this was intended, but the Guidelines thread doesn't highlight the whole "2 day processing time" anywhere in it. That, or I'm blind af.

You fools. You stupid, crazy fools. Do you realize what you have done? You have effectively opened the floodgates to them all; this will be the end of vouching as we know it. The structure and integrity of vouches have been buried alive, and I can hear the collective whispers of the damned as the time draws near. They are coming. You have doomed us all. The uprising of the "+1 cool guy" is at hand. All jokes aside, I'm pretty skeptical about the new system. I never really saw a problem with the old system where upon reaching 10 positive vouches, the applicant was accepted (where any negative vouches would reduce the total positive) after 24 hours of receiving the final 10th vouch. I completely understand the idea behind this movement, but exclusivity at the cost of getting 10 vouches didn't [and still doesn't] seem like some impossible feat. It gave Players something to work for (as opposed to a generalized ratio of positive to negative vouches which is in effect now) and they could see in real-time where they were at in the review process in terms of monitoring their positive vouches. I personally feel that quality is far better than quantity, and that's what we got when letting Players in to represent Xeno Gamers as a full-time Member through the old system. It ensured that we let quality Players in, not just any Player off of the street, and it gave Xeno Gamers this sort of respectable air around it. Joining Xeno Gamers felt like an honour (to me at the time) and so it felt great to receive all of the vouches I did because I worked hard for them and was rewarded for my efforts by receiving a full-membership. The number of vouches not only gave the community an idea of who the Player was, but it also enabled the Higher-Ups to formulate an opinion themselves because, more often than not, it would take weeks to get in at a time. It gave a decent buffer time for Higher-Ups and enabled them to weed out any Players they deemed 'not worthy'. 2 days just seems too few to really judge a Player. That all being said, if the end-goal is quantity > quality, then it's certainly more effective in that aspect. However, this is all just personal opinion, it's just good to see an active interest from the Higher-Ups in improving Xeno Gamers in any way :coffee:

Division: Forum In-Game Name: Forest Identity: Forest Position: Community Leader Time Active: 1000000 Age: 69 Experience: Ex-Community Leader Donated: Yes Information: Cause why not :coffee:

Bring back ZE/ZM god damit

That is to say, a decision to be made (couldn't edit post, apologies for the spam).

@Bello @Rejects for their input on this thread as it is a time-sensitive matter that should be resolved sooner rather than later; otherwise, there is no point in the submission of a Ban Protest if by the time it's dealt with the ban-time has already run its course :coffee:

Er, not to sound judgmental as it's not really my place to say so (not to mention I'm unfamiliar with how the TF2 Division does things), but [if my understanding is correct] if Players are being given extended ban times based on any ban they previously had, regardless of the context of the ban, that seems a tad bit excessive. Mind you, this is assuming that the Player was previously banned for speaking another language (difficult to say since the previous ban was for simply "Breaking Rules"). Given that there is no static ban time for an offense via communication aside from the 4 hours that was previously put in place for mic spammers in the somewhat-obsolete admin handbook (please correct me if there is), I'm assuming that it's dependent on the Staff dealing the ban. That being said, to ban someone from playing on the Server for a week for speaking another language seems really out-of-place, especially if the previous ban was not relevant (again, assuming) to the Player speaking another language to begin with. I understand that Staff have to deal with a lot of stress and it gets to that point where it's easier to deal a harsher ban time to get rid of a problem Player, especially after multiple warnings; but again, banning someone for a week for speaking their native tongue because they got excited or otherwise enthused over something is hardly a reason to ban someone for that period of time. Not implying that Staff aren't already doing so, but it's good practice to put oneself in the Player's shoes before enacting a subjective ban time on such a minor offense. Revoking the Player's mic/chat privileges would have sufficed just as well (for the duration of a round, map, whatever, don't know how TF2 works) and could have been just as effective without being detrimental. To re-iterate, I'm not questioning Staff's capability to moderate so much as I am offering my perspective from the POV of a regular Player on something that seems harsh. For this reason, I'm not going to provide a positive or negative vouch toward this Ban Protest.

Welcome to the Xeno Gamers' community m8, hope you enjoy your stay. As for the number of 'adults' in the community.. It's pretty debatable :coffee:

Praying for @Cristo on this day though (insert obligatory picture here)

Chilling out on xG's TinyChat :coffee:

Belated welcome to Xeno Gamers' forums in that case!

Welcome to Xeno Gamers' forums m8, hope you enjoy your stay with our rather colourful community :coffee:

Depends on whether or not you know the whereabouts of the #purpgang

>recognizes thread title >searches said title >first result: Green Text Stories -2012 >second result: Green Text Stories -2013 >wonders how long this one will last this time >0 faith

Just to re-iterate; the intention of this thread is to suggest Forum changes or updates. Please keep all Bugs/Errors and the like in the following thread for organization sake: Forum Updates - REPORT GLITCHES HERE! That being said, also linking this thread to be considered as it is relevant: User-friendliness