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It's pretty early, but just wanted to gauge the community's willingness to start up the ol' unofficial tradition of singing spooky songs in time for Halloween. The last success was spooky (and silly all the same), but I was thinking we could step it up with another classic this time around: So how about it? Would you donate your voice to a good cause in the spirit of Halloween with Xeno Gamers?

Not much I need to explain about this map besides the fact that it's small and getting knocked off the map instantly kills you as well as a hazard near the centre of the map that also instantly kills you as the boss. Frustrating to play on as the boss as everyone just focuses on blasting the boss either off the map or into the hazard (The payload from pl_frontier) to win the game causing rounds to end in seconds.

Having aia to have fun with rapid fire weapons for a brief period at the start of the map is not a detrimental matter in anyway, but neither is not having it. Really it could go either way and make little difference. There is no reason to disable it entirely though due to a problem caused by only one aspect of it being used by some people some of the time. Earrape isn't something fun to deal with, but in terms of it being allowed or not, this is something incredibly easy to categorize as trolling due to intentionally causing irritation to the rest of the server. Again though considering how minor having this available really is there's not much reason not to just cut it off from the source to prevent this issue in the first place so long as that doesn't involve ruining the unharmful aspects that aia offers. Advanced infinite ammo at the start of the round will not be disabled. Infinite Demoman shield recharge has been disabled. -Closed

It's just me. Sorry for the disappointment.

"Kypari does not want to be around me and my toxic persona therefore every punitive action taken against me by them is invalid." Yeah ok, no. I didn't even want to make a serious post here because the argument made for why your ban is invalid is so challenging to take seriously that I don't know if anybody can even attempt it. I do not like mau, I do not particularly know moo, but mocking two people you don't know for what you sarcastically assume their sexuality is isn't really what I'd consider a joke made in good faith. You also went far and beyond just calling them "boyfriends" or whatever too, so that's off the table. Furthermore it's not an issue of "Kypari doesn't like me". From what I remember historically you've had some pretty major issues with following basic rules on the server; a couple cases of donator abuse, constant trolling, etc. I don't think I'm a perfect person, in fact I think I lose my chill pretty fast, but I do not for one minute believe that it's Kypari stalking you around waiting for you to make any misstep so much as you constantly pushing boundaries with people until you take one step two far and Kypari ends up being called in because he's an active mod/admin/whatever. Additionally I personally have witnessed you attacking some staff when (you assume) nobody's on, so I also think you're anything but the impartial buddy-buddy you claim to be. I don't even really care about whether you're punished or not, I just want to voice how I think almost no claim of yours in the entire thread makes sense. About the only thing I can agree with is that there's a small section of brainlets on our servers who want to cheese the game and start poop with players far above their level, which I guess welcome to xg, can't really punish people for being egotistical, and it's definitely not a valid reason to harass them.

The fact of the matter is, is that you did it, even if it was meant as harmless fun, the person who reported you clearly didn't, nor did others in this situation, so punishment will be dealt accordingly. And I will also say, from what I've been able to gather and see myself, this isn't the first time you have been reported for toxicity, so it's clearly a running problem. As stated in the General Community Guidelines No trolling whatsoever. Verbally attacking a person will get you banned. Sometimes things being dealt privately is better than making a thread on everything, since it's very easy for threads to get derailed and turn into a poopstorm, and the reporter may want to stay anonymous, which leads to bringing it directly to higherups the best course of action. He isn't the only one to have banned you, even though his may be the majority. It's unfair to say he's jumping at any chance he can to ban you for any reason he can find, you have had 3 bans in the course of just a couple of months, so this clearly is becoming a more prevalent issue, otherwise we wouldn't be here right now. (Answered this one in my first paragraph as well) -1

''community input''

As many people on surf may have figured out, at the beginning of every map a plugin called advanced infinite ammo (AIA) is enabled on our surf server. This is normally a fun command however there is an exploit that allows Demo Man to infinitely charge into a supply cabinet/wall and make an exceptionally loud crashing sound/scream over and over again for the thirty seconds. While at first many people laughed and thought this was fun, quickly many people are becoming increasingly frustrated and annoyed by it due to noise and ear rape for lack of better terms. When staff or players ask others to stop this I've noticed people can hardly hear voice over the sound which only makes things worse. I would like to assert that we disable the plugin (sm_aia_waitingforplayers "0") or disable demo weapons that allow for charge (sm_aia_disabledweapons "....") top avoid this exploit

I think people are overreacting to the issue imo by calling it an exploit. Higher-ups as well have allowed it in the past, and there's no written rule about it so if the tf2 higher ups can please reach a consensus on the issue that would be great. Either disable it or add a rule until it's fully disabled, or keep it and make it clear that it's not an exploit so people don't interpret it in their own way.

I guess I should also say that while your points are correct, there isn't a full reason for us to not remove a minor annoyance. Why should we keep an annoyance in the servers if its annoying? If there is no real benefit to the exploit, then why even bother defending it? There is no benefit I can see other than "lol lets trigger people by being loud". The only reason I see for you arguing to keep this functioning is for the sake of arguing.

There isn’t a way for the charge to be harmful considering it’s mostly done in the farthest corner of spawns, and that anyone is physically able to walk away or simply move slightly to hear. There is literally no way for it to stem something worse since it’s pretty cut and dry. There is also no way for it to be game ruining since majority of players do not even load in for the full 20 seconds and the map resets everyone back to spawn and wasd frozen. The chance of something happening in that time span is slim to none, you can’t even finish any of the surf maps in that time.

If I remember correctly, at the start (very beginning, everyone was frozen) of a round of surf_toast, you and others were doing said exploit, meaning that this is invalid as well. As for the overall vote, +1 for removal since it is an exploit. This means it is somewhat against rules, and since it is also spam it is more "harmful" than other exploits, meaning it has the potential to be game ruining. Not saying that is the case now, but if it evolves into something worse, there will be worse consequences. And something strange I see is that people are calling it "fun" to do this. How in any way, shape, or form is being obnoxiously loud in an exploit for the soul purpose of rebelling against server constructs fun?

On surf, the spawns are almost always right next to each other (linear maps), so it definitely makes more sense to disable aia on just surf only. Despite being a proximity-based noise, the entire server would hear it that have loaded in. As I said I don't really mind overall, it's a small issue but I have heard a few people getting flustered about it. Now I've thought about it I would just make it surf based only.

-1 I don't think this even needed to be a thread. A brief 30 second period designed to be a short goof-off grace period before everyone loads in isn't the most catastrophic time to have a demoman make a proximity-based noise. I highly doubt that that many people can't stand something so small, when hardly anyone complains about it at all. It's not that deep.

Division Team Fortress 2 In-Game Name Jackie Identity STEAM_0:1:70818115 Position Administrator Time Active on Servers 4 years Information I am obviously the best candidate on xG to be in a position of power. I have shown in multiple cases in the past how responsible I am with power. I'm the most respectful person on xG and I always follow the rules because I'm a good girl. In my new position as administrator I will be sure to punish anybody who decides to say any harmful words to any minority and give them a good moral scolding. I will threaten to mute anybody at the slightest sound of a musical tone in their voice. I will EVISCERATE anybody who even thinks of saying anything in a silly or immature voice, AND I WILL BAN ANYBODY WHO EVEN DARES TO QUESTION MY REASONS FOR PUNISHING THEM, FOR THEY ARE DIVINE. (take it to the forums, nerd xddd) Now you may ask, "Jackie, why are you applying for Administrator and skipping moderator?" Good question, it's because MY IQ IS OVER 150 WHICH MEANS I AM A CERTIFIED GENIUS AND AM AUTOMATICALLY BETTER THAN ALL OF YOU. Now you may also ask "Well Jackie, why would you want to apply for staff if you hate the staff?" Another good question, obviously the answer is that I have learned from my evil and petty ways and have taken by example by the new staff members in the TF2 Division. I have embraced the way of xG, and I wish to feel the same rush of adrenaline staff get in their peepees when they enforce rules biasedly and regardless of context. It is the ultimate pleasure. For my hours, I will only come on for 5 minutes everyday just so I can hold my position as a washed up staff member and leave immediately when another staff member comes to take my place. I am the ideal xG staff member. You may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like.

I think itd be fine if you stopped chewing ice into your mic.. jesus. +1 you seem to know what's up

I know it's not an official selfie, but here's a pic of me procrastinating from school

good

-1 uneccesary, its just 30 seconds, I don't see the reasson to have one person ruin everyones fun

There a actual examples on exploitation on surf, like abusing the low grav in certain maps like crazyfrog, that's actual exploiting because it's able to give you an advantage over the map or players. The charging has no benefit besides just being silly for 20 seconds. It's not harmful, it's not useful, it's just simple fun. Also trying to claim that people will leave after that's done is a far reach. Surf is one of the most populated tf2 servers next to tgh. Plus what I mean for crying about is someone saying "that's loud" when they are standing basically in the corner where the demos are. No one ever actually leaves or cries about it once the round actually starts.

Idk, it makes a vaguely boring time period more interesting and there's no real complaint other than "it's loud". There's not even really an exploit unless you're also willing to count people equipping the pan on scout and making as much noise as humanly possible an "exploit". If we really stretch the limits of believability you might be able to beat a short surf map in the 20 seconds if you giga-trimp the entire way, but even then it's a moot point because everything resets and you lose any bonus for doing so.

it's like I said something similar to this months ago ? something around the lines of "guaranteed kill gimmicks are dumb as poop," "making one mistake as the boss shouldn't cost you your life."

I'd like to also bring up that if it really bugs you that much you can manually find the demoknight sound files and lower/edit them. I know the obvious retort to this is that "but that puts me at a disadvantage against enemy demoknights", and my counter to that is lmao dude ur playing on surf a spy can backwards bhop at lightspeed into your face and backstab you, you've already forsaken playing the game in any serious manner. Also this happens on each trade server at the beginning of the round and it's never really been that bothersome imo. It's pointless having infinite ammo for the 30 seconds before round, but every kill within those 30 seconds is pointless, so idk, it makes an otherwise pointless time period on the server more interesting I guess? -1

That makes no sense whatsoever. If you're ''wasd frozen'' then how the hell is the demo spam even happening? Everyone is wasd frozen (which means no demo spam atm) so that point is immediately invalid. And with that, you can still simply walk away from the sound and do what ever.

+1 even though I find the infinite ammo and charging funny, if it's bothering some users we should just remove it. Removing it isn't even that big of a deal, nobody is really going to miss it going away. If it's forcing some people to turn their actual game sound down for a pointless thing at the beginning of rounds it should just get removed.

+1 it's a very bad idea to have maps than can instakill the boss, and will be very unfun to fight with if you're new to playing boss

+1, boss shouldnt be able to be gimmick instakilled.

-1 because I’m going to correct some things (sorry if formatting turns garbage I’m on my phone) 1.its not a supply cabinet, it’s just demoman himself 2.its only 20 seconds at best if you connect right away 3.its not even as loud as you’re making it out to be, all you have to do is distance yourself a tiny bit to hear whoever is talking, what you’re saying with not being able to hear anyone is if you’re charging yourself. 4.its not an exploit because everything else is given infinite ammo, which so happens to include charge. Honestly the amount of people who are genuinely upset about this is so small compared to the amount of people who don’t care at all. Is it really that hard to simply l, idk, walk 2 steps away from a charging demo. It’s literally only 20 seconds out of a whole 25 minutes on surf. Majority of players don’t even load in at that time. Getting rid of this continues on how nitpicky some people are about the slightest fun.

He plays on Uber Upgrades as well, but 90% of the time that server is dead. Every time I go on Surf Tuna is there and playing, usually above the jail or something. I really don't know what you mean by him just sitting in spawn the entire time. I'm also pretty sure that Tuna doesn't find servers like TGH, Pokemon and maybe FF2 enjoyable at all. There are plenty of staff members that have just stuck to one single server, for example, Vac. Tuna could be the new Surf mod

Jailbreak You can no longer spam over round change to get Warden. Fixed spectator chat printing twice. Fixed Warden icon not disappearing under certain conditions. Rebel LRs now give the T armor. Freedays will now occur if no one takes warden at the start of the round Warden is now passed after a T gets LR. Fix Russian Roulette and Gun Toss occasionally giving extra reserve ammo

I must say, while it is the perfect punishment, why won't people humiliate themselves further for the challenge. Horrors of being an butthole

I will play as an assist trophy

Division Team Fortress 2 In-Game Name Jackie Identity STEAM_0:1:70818115 Ban Type Server Ban Information Got banned FOR A MONTH because Moo -Moo reported me for being toxic. I think my ban is pretty unfair because I only said a few things and I thought we were all just having some fun bantering with eachother. Really it seemed to me like Moo -Moo was unphased by what I had said judging by his responses. Moo -Moo and Mau -Mau really hate my friend kamaal and try to start poop with him constantly, I don't really hate them all that much personally. (Maybe I now I do) I know that it's a month because of my previous bans from Kypari, but I think even those bans are debatable. Everyone knows he hates my guts and just jumps at the chance to punish me for any minute reason he can find at the time. (He's even wrongly banned me for a month in the past and it got instantly repealed because it was unfair) I don't think I deserve this long of a punishment for just chiming in at the start and poking some harmless fun at Moo. And also the admins decided that my ban didn't even need a formal request on the forums, Moo moo just brought it straight to them and they decided to ban me without considering the thoughts of the players??? what the fudge is up with that??? At the very least I think my ban should be rolled down to a week. edit: here's chatlogs https://imgur.com/a/92rBBVN

In-Game Name jewy Division Team Fortress 2 Previous Member No Identity https://steamcommunity.com/id/JEWWWY/ Age 16 Previously Banned No Time Active on Servers 1 1/2 day Reason for Joining Im interested in getting invovled with the forums and like the surf server because it's the only tf2 server with a good bhop mod and no fall damage.

The banter had gone on over the course of an hour with you chiming in through out it and there are points (looking at the second to last image) where it is clear moomoo is not taking it favorably but you're continuing to goad at him regardless. It doesn't matter how big of a part you played in harassing someone like this, the bottom line is that you in fact did and that will result in punishment. If this can be backed up it's something that can be looked into exactly like this ordeal was, but going off of word of mouth without any real evidence doesn't make it something that can be regarded. Kypari is not the only person who has punished you for this behavior so pinning it on him when it's been a repetitive issue all around revolving around you regardless of who has had to deal with it doesn't change the history you've had. I'm unaware of any bans you were unbanned from in your ban history. The other month ban you received was done so at the end of it's run to reduce ten extra hours that it didn't need, but the ban itself still lasted a month. As I already said it was anything but harmless fun and expands off of the fact that this is a running behavior from you. This is exactly the way bans work where they increase in length from repetition of the issue. It being handled privately makes it no different from being handled here when it's plainly clear the issue being caused/rule breaking. There is nothing that prevents someone from going straight to us about an issue they need to report, especially if they want to stay anonymous about it. As a general statement to everyone do not turn this into a poopstorm and have needless back and forth banter at each other about disliking one another.

Nah I like you, Kypari. You're a cutie. ?

Wait, what?

Nah, I don't think I would, I am not a singer.

you can get out of range of airblasts as well

not admin. bagel hacked for mod again this is the third time I've joined the community btw

"there's nothing wrong with it except this problem" I find it funny too but if people are getting annoyed about it, clearly something needs to be done about it. The spawns on surf are next to each other and everyone who has connected (which from what I've seen is quite a portion of people) can't talk on mic because of something really pointless and small. Not even just being unable to talk, clearly people find it annoying as well

Its pretty hard to locate who exactly is doing it (due to teams, time spent loading in and unable to look around, multiple demo's exploiting this, etc.) most of the time so its hard to warn people as far as i'm aware. Unless I'm mistaken, voice chat and game sound are in a mono channel with each other so its hard to verbally warn players (as pointed out earlier in the original post) due to the sound going over the same channel at a similar volume. A text warning is possible but as stated at the top of this reply, its hard to locate the players doing it so its inherently hard to pinpoint and address and if it is addressed/punished it could open up a conflict where players could argue "why didn't the X team's demo get in trouble for it???" which is a fair argument and IMO just puts the staff in a poopty position. also I don't see the point of taking personal shots at people. I made this as a serious thread so please keep relevant to the servers, not the people voicing their thoughts on the matter

If your version of interesting is anything except normality then yes, I agree. Otherwise, because its a simple fix and no reason to keep it in other than the minority wanting it, why not remove it? I agree, 100%. Except, there's not a correspondence between an expected loudness and an unexpected disruption of peace. The disruption of the peace is a real life law, though that does not correlate.

There's nothing wrong with it either, it's not done to trigger people. The "exploit" has been around for a while, this isn't new. IMO it's kind of funny to have a Demoman screaming and running into a wall. The only argument you have for removing AIA is "I want to speak in these first 30 seconds even though half of the server hasn't even joined in yet" -1 for AIA to be removed I bet you guys are the type of people to go to a rock concert and then complain that it's "too loud"

I didn't realize that, i thought it had to do with location on the map due to where people always go to do so ty for clarifying. the time doesn't really matter that much. its like an alarm clock in the morning. the bigger point is that its obnoxious and draws your attention not that it lasts forever. Yes, but when you spawn in you're wasd frozen for a few seconds right next to it which is more than enough to drive a lot of players insane (in my experience) its done to exploit the sound and shake the screen. I'm not saying they're exploiting the game or server, they're exploiting the plugin. I'm fairly sure the plugin wasn't written to specifically encourage demo charging into a wall and therefore is an exploit. If that is incorrect, please let me know i don't mean to remove fun poop, its just getting on peoples nerves from what i've observed so in my eyes its more just an issue of enabling trolling. Once again, its just as viable to disable AIA on certain weapons which doesn't seem like a bad compromise in my opinion ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

Shouldn't this be a poll or something? Still, -1 only since it seems very minor to worry about. Also, stripping little fun things away eventually adds up over time, making things feel kinda...soulless? Imo anyways.

Sorry Tuna but I'm gonna have to stay neutral on this one, I haven't seen much from you besides playing on Surf and sitting in spawn for the majority of time. I don't play on Surf too often so I don't know for sure, but it would be great if you could be more active on our other servers. Don't get me wrong it's entirely fine to have a favourite server to sit on all day, but it would be nice to see you active on some of our other servers. I see good potential in you on becoming staff, but at the moment I think you get a little too feisty with some of the members in the clan or just to randoms in general if they do something that you don't approve of. Examples of this has occurred multiple times in the xG Discord, and I'm not going point out these individuals as you surely know who I'm talking about. Hopefully you'll be able to improve on these, good luck!

Friendly reminder of the day: drink your water

yeah thats definitely fair enough. im friends with a lot of staff i wouldnt do that because that's really against being ya know, friends with staff.