Should Vector Be Unbanned?

[Osiris 14]

I've got quite a bit to say on this topic. I'll post something later, I'm at work right now and probably shouldn't be texting lol. Just don't go locking this thread anytime soon. :)

[Dethman 191]

All of these +1 should be unbanned do not know the vector on tf2. He makes EVERYONE uncomfortable. He has caused multiple people to leave and never comeback and if any of you saw this, you would want him permed from everything. Do you want positive change?

[Chrono 372]

just because the effect of him being banned is something you think is 100% positive doesn't always make it good, or right? Keep in mind when I started that post-chain trying to get him unbanned, it wasn't only vector. it was everyone there.

 

Like him or not, if you aren't going to present evidence, then there really is no reason for him to be banned. forest's compromise is something not even I would agree on, because he would still be (wrongfully) banned on servers, note: I say wrongfully because much like in teamspeak last night where you all started to see it, there is no legitimate evidence of anything more recent than about a year ago where a decision was already made to demote him. is he gonna get staff back? probably not anytime in the near future.

 

I could gather all my friends, say stop coming on TS for a few weeks, and then claim @ThePenguin scared us away with his mexican-ness. and until he sees justice we wont return. but that just isn't how it works. now if I were to record penguin's disgusting over the top mexican-ness driving us away and present it as evidence, maybe he would be banned, and @Bleed would be safe to go on TS.

[ChickenPanda 66]

Honestly, we're not coming to a common ground here. We need to go with Forest's idea as a start, and see where it goes from there. The only person who can really decide how long Vector should be banned for is Vector. Unban him on forums, and keep him perm'd on servers. Let him make a ban protest. This is the only idea that has been thrown out that isn't completely putting hostile towards either side.

[Waimalu 1]

The only people who want him unbanned from what I see are the people who never (if not rarely) play on tf2 servers. I wouldn't have much of problem if he is unbanned on forums to prove himself, but on tf2 servers, just no.

[ChickenPanda 66]

I'm still confused on why we banned him in the first place if we're going to undo it. I suppose in @Forest we trust :^)

 

And regarding the mass of people leaving, lets face it.

We're pussies. :^)

[diabeetus 20]

As many of you have already heard, there are rumors floating around about Vector being unbanned from all xG servers and services. I am here to put those rumors to rest. Those rumors are all true.

To start things off, none of the CL's want Vector unbanned (as in, unbanned without any punishment). To try and claim that we want him unbanned to both the community as a whole and to Silence is so incredibly dishonest and deceitful that I'm honestly shocked. The discussion with regard to Vector's condition was very clearly still ongoing, and as someone who was actively involved in the conversation regarding Vector's unban I would expect for you (@metalslug53) to know that. There wasn't even close to a consensus between what the CL's felt would be the proper course of action, and to claim otherwise simply is wrong. Yes, Penguin, Lee and I felt that Vector's permanent ban was too harsh, but at no point did we ever claim to want Vector to be unbanned. The three of us clearly voiced that we felt that Vector deserved a punishment, but none of us had agreed (at that point) as to what the length of that punishment would be. The closest thing to a consensus that we came to was that (A) Vector should receive a slightly less severe ban (on the order of a couple of months, as previously mentioned), and (B) that when this ban ran out that Vector would be under and incredibly strict probationary period (as initially proposed by Moosty and agreed to by Scootaloo) and that if he demonstrated any of the qualities for which he was previously banned for that he would be permanently banned, no questions asked. Interestingly enough, this initial "compromise" is nearly identical to the compromise currently being worked out (proposed by DrLee, here's what it is, if anyone is interested).

 

 

Also, I really don't want to address the big ole' steaming pile of shit that is people threatening to leave the clan if Vector was unbanned. If your attachment to the community is so fickle that even the prospect of having someone on the server who has a negative impact on the server is enough to make you leave, then I really just don't know what to say. Leaving the clan simply because you think that we're making a decision which will have a negative impact on our community doesn't do diddly. In fact, it just makes the clan's condition even worse. If you really care about the well-being of this clan, prove to me that my decision was a mistake. Prove to me that my train of thought is completely bonkers. If Vector truly is as terrible of an influence as everyone says (and I'm not saying that he isn't), it really shouldn't be too hard to gather some actual evidence against him other than word-of-mouth. I have no problem with voicing issues about the decisions of higher-ups, but threatening to leave because you think we're making the wrong decision is essentially the equivalent of taking your ball and going home.

[Scootaloo 125]

To start things off, none of the CL's want Vector unbanned (as in, unbanned without any punishment). To try and claim that we want him unbanned to both the community as a whole and to Silence is so incredibly dishonest and deceitful that I'm honestly shocked. The discussion with regard to Vector's condition was very clearly still ongoing, and as someone who was actively involved in the conversation regarding Vector's unban I would expect for you (@metalslug53) to know that. There wasn't even close to there being a consensus between the CL's felt would be the proper course of action, and to claim otherwise simply is wrong. Yes, Penguin, Lee and I felt that Vector's permanent ban was too harsh, but at no point did we ever claim to want Vector to be unbanned. The three of us clearly voiced that we felt that Vector deserved a punishment, but none of us had agreed (at that point) as to what the length of that punishment would be. The closest thing to a consensus that we came to was that (A) Vector should receive a slightly less severe ban (on the order of a couple of months, as previously mentioned), and (B) that when this ban ran out that Vector would be under and incredibly strict probationary period (as initially proposed by Moosty and agreed to by Scootaloo) and that if he demonstrated any of the qualities for which he was previously banned for that he would be permanently banned, no questions asked. Interestingly enough, this initial "compromise" is nearly identical to the compromise currently being worked out (proposed by DrLee, here's what it is, if anyone is interested).

 

 

Also, I really don't want to address the big ole' steaming pile of fudge that is people threatening to leave the clan if Vector was unbanned. If your attachment to the community is so fickle that even the prospect of having someone on the server who has a negative impact on the server is enough to make you leave, then I really just don't know what to say. Leaving the clan simply because you think that we're making a decision which will have a negative impact on our community doesn't do diddly. In fact, it just makes the clan's condition even worse. If you really care about the well-being of this clan, prove to me that my decision was a mistake. Prove to me that my train of thought is completely bonkers. If Vector truly is as terrible of an influence as everyone says (and I'm not saying that he isn't), it really shouldn't be too hard to gather some actual evidence against him other than word-of-mouth. I have no problem with voicing issues about the decisions of higher-ups, but threatening to leave because you think we're making the wrong decision is essentially the equivalent of taking your ball and going home.

 

Allow me to make a public apology. My post was not very well worded, as I should have stated that we were discussing the possibility of Vector being unbanned. The way I wrote it, it made it seem as if we had decided that Vector was indeed returning. That was in bad wording on my part. Sorry to have put that connotation on you.

 

I also want to apologize for only receiving half of the truth. I WAS under the assumption that a few of the CLs (None in particular really, just a few of you) were in support of unbanning Vector. It was only until later when I re-read through the entire conversation that I realized that nowhere was it proposed to unban him completely. I allowed myself to jump to that conclusion due to the hot passions that were heavy last night in the Teamspeak channel. So, to you and the other @Community Leaders, I do apologize for having that be conveyed.

 

You guys rock at what you do. I know our voices are not unheard. I know you all have the best intentions in mind when making these huge decisions. I don't want to step on toes or make it perceived that I believe you guys are doing anything ill for the group. I believe the exact opposite.

 

The threats of people leaving the clan due to Vector's unbanning, I believe, were also probably in part to the misconception that we were deliberating completely unbanning Vector and having him return immediately. You can probably understand how that might make a few people upset. But, I think that better understanding on our parts would have helped avoid that miscommunication.

 

So, to you all, I apologize. I will be diligent and more attentive in these future discussions, and work towards conveying my messages in a more clear manner.

[Insane 2]

why do we want to unban vector in the first place

[diabeetus 20]

A decision was reached, and Vector's in-game ban will be reduced to 6 months (meaning he will be unbanned on November 1st, 2015). Additionally, Vector's forum ban will be removed. However, this does not mean that Vector's behavior both on the forums or in-game (when his ban expires in November) will be tolerated by any means whatsoever. During the next 6 months (and additionally when his in-game ban is up) Vector will be under a strict probationary period. If there appears to be no noticeable difference (or possibly even a worsening of) his excessively belligerent behavior, Vector will be permanently banned. Basically, if he keeps up the kind of behavior that has been observed recently, he will be permed. Keep in mind that attempts to instigate or harass Vector in order to get him into reacting in a way that could result in him getting banned will be punished accordingly. Lastly, make sure that if you see something that you would consider to be evidence of excessively negative behavior, take down some kind of evidence. Whether it's recording a demo, taking a screencap of chat logs, it has to be something concrete. Banning people off of hearsay (not matter how truthful it may be) isn't optimal and leads to a lot of future confusion, especially in the event of a ban protest.

 

Trying to remove negative/toxic behavior in xG is going to be an incredibly lengthy journey, and will be a process that cannot be accomplished solely through the efforts of the higher ups/CL's of xG. While sometimes it may not feel like it, we're trying to listen to the community as best as possible while trying to preserve our own values as well. I personally apologize for the chaos that has enveloped the clan in the past week or so, and take responsibility for any and all negative/detrimental outcomes that may come as a result of our recent decisions (including this one). Additionally, I apologize for the apparent flip-flopityness of the decisions of the CL's (Hidingmaster excluded) and the somewhat inefficient method that was used for the carrying out of bans following the posting of the Toxicity Reform thread. In the heat of the moment I think we all just wanted to get something done and didn't really head into it as efficiently and cleanly as we could have. If anyone has any questions or comments, feel free to send me a message on steam or through the forums, or post in the "Opinion on Recent Events Thread" (please try to keep things civil and respectful).

 

~closed.