Ban suggestion (Just hear me out)

[Jaybreeze 6]

Nothing is permanent, trying to make something last forever without an outrageously valid reason (ddos, hacking, real life situations, etc.) is something nearly impossible to do. If xG actually kept people "perm'd" then the server would lose some of its most colorful participants. There has to be a balance between good and bad, if you only have players who follow and abide by the rules constantly there would be nothing exciting going on just the same thing every single round.

[Hidingmaster 19]

Why not just change what we do for ban lengths?

 

Mass fk w/dc: 2 month ct ban

Mass fk, mass free shooting: 1 month ct ban

DDOS, hacking: perm

[xGShadowSpy 108]

@@Hidingmaster If they DC and dont rejoin, we cant CT ban them, the CT ban option only works if they are in-game. Also mass freeshooting happens alot, with an accidental shot into stack etc., So that shouldnt be a month, if intentional maybe a week CT ban if you look at it as attempted massing.

 

Mass freekill with DC should still be perm, or atleast longer than a few months, because if they leave they are avoiding a ban, and probally don't plan on playing anymore anyways. i.e Papi and Minecrack stayed after they massed so it wasn't a perm server ban, and only a CT ban

 

In my opinion, we need something to completely finalize all of this, @autumn should make a list of the punishable actions, if they can be appealed, and how long after them happening do they get to appeal it.

 

I.E.-

Action: DDOS PunishmentTime: Permanent CanBeAppealed?: No (If it could be appealed, a time for how long after it can be should be here)

 

After a post like the format above is made with all of the punishments etc. (should be sticky'd in ban protest) ALL bans will be final, even if they had previously done it before the post(unless it was something not worthy of a permaban)

[Brian 50]

To me personally, it really came down to the seriousness of the crime, whether mass freekilling or hacking.

 

Mass freekilling I see as a minuscule problem. It interrupts the game for a total of five minutes, causes a small uproar, but mostly harmless. Only resulting in a minor disruptment, one can understand why we're all so eager to unban those people. They don't exactly do anything to the physical copy of the game itself. Plus, few members would remain, as a vast majority of the members have mass freekilled as a joke, a twist, mainly for humor. This doesn't really deserve a permanent ban; rather, it deserves a month ban and a stern attempt to ensure they serve out full sentence. Permanently banning a person from a server for killing an entire team then leaving doesn't exactly ensure they won't doit again. You should merely permanently CT ban them with no appeals, or put them on parole, such as the U.S. Court Systems do. The admins and mods you hold here aren't dumb; they can remember basic names and track thier actions.

 

Hacking/DDoSing on the flip-side, deserve permanent bans, as they disrupt the game too greatly. Taking down an entire server is not on the same level as killing an entire team, then leaving. Sure, you might be a douche-bag, but you won't be remembered to the extent as a hacker would, or even a DDoS. These and these only are deserving of permanent bans, at least to the extent of my experience with them. Hacking physically modifies the game, giving players unfair advantages, such as instant head shots at the click of a keyboard. Or, DDoS which essentially is used to shut down a server.

 

Granted, if they do mass freekill then leave even after a chance of redemption, that's the exception. Otherwise, I firmly believe that mass freekilling isn't grounds for a permanent game ban, rather grounds for a month ban, or CT ban.

 

Also, not that I am in favor of taking the say away from the community but there's something wrong when somebody who just got permed (regardless of their current position or former position in the clan) can get his friends to +1 with crap saying that "he contributed a ton to the clan".

 

Well, you might as well then let silence determine all the bans, now that the community cannot have a say without bias. People who contribute greatly should be given a little wiggle room, after all, the nature of humanity states mistakes happen.

[Brian 50]

-snip-

[Hidingmaster 19]

@ShdowSpy didn't realize that we couldn't use teamban on a dc (though it was an option still). So make a mass w/dc a month ban.

 

For free shooting I'm not talking about the accidental shot that hits T's but rather the intentional mass free shooting (someone with bad enough aim that attempts to mass fk, but fails).

[Gawd 1]

Though, second chances shouldn't be given to everyone and probation should be issued so if they are given that chance.

 

But who should they be given to? Who decides that? It turns into a matter of who has the most friends.

 

Also to be honest I'm all for lowering ban lengths, but i think we should at least stick to them.

 

I mean, people know what they are getting into when they mass freekill and then DC. A perm. But the ability to post a ban protest and get all your friends to plus one it removes any kind of deterrent factor that comes with the ban and honestly prolly encourages them to continue w/ the knowledge that they can be easily unbanned.

 

Also @Brian towards what you said at the bottom of your post. I wouldn't like to see the say taken away from the community either, but doesn't a clear flaw present itself when anybody banned can just ask all their friends or even randoms they may have just met to +1?

[Brian 50]

Also @Brian towards what you said at the bottom of your post. I wouldn't like to see the say taken away from the community either, but doesn't a clear flaw present itself when anybody banned can just ask all their friends or even randoms they may have just met to +1?

 

 

Gaming COMMUNITY. You're supposed to have community input, otherwise, the server owner just runs it himself, and might as well get rid of the forms if that's what you're going for.

[Gawd 1]

Also @Brian towards what you said at the bottom of your post. I wouldn't like to see the say taken away from the community either, but doesn't a clear flaw present itself when anybody banned can just ask all their friends or even randoms they may have just met to +1?

 

 

Gaming COMMUNITY. You're supposed to have community input, otherwise, the server owner just runs it himself, and might as well get rid of the forms if that's what you're going for.

 

 

But you're ignoring the issue which I am trying to tell you. I never said anything about Silence being the decider of everything. I mentioned the possibility of limiting it to staff to at least attempt to fix the issue of having all your friends +1 to unban you. At the end of the day, what the community wants will result anyways. But this wouldn't fix much anyways as much of the staff does the same thing.

[Brian 50]

But you're ignoring the issue which I am trying to tell you. I never said anything about Silence being the decider of everything. I mentioned the possibility of limiting it to staff to at least attempt to fix the issue of having all your friends +1 to unban you. But this wouldn't fix much anyways as much of the staff does the same thing.

 

 

Bias never shrinks as the ranks increase. The opposite proves so. Many of the admins and mods have gotten to a higher stature by appealing to the other mods and admins. You can never truly get rid of bias.

 

Bans should not be permanent, otherwise, we risk losing a majority of our community. Many people who often freekill, or even hack have been able to rejoin, due to an overwhelming sense of community. You are arguing for more of a police state. Granted, it could work, but would limit members. Most of the fun of an admin is competition. Appeals exist for a reason. You knew you screwed up, and you want to appeal for this. It's simple, and I do not comprehend why there is even a glimmer of a thought as to keep permanent bans permanent, given most are freekilling.

 

You are asking for a change of structure and the way the clan runs, from the same leader who can barely keep the integrity of the clan itself in shape as it stands. In theory it could work, but you would lose players, require a major overhaul and look at people's bans. You would need to re-ban other players, some even vital to making the experience the best possible.

[Chrono 372]

i support the freekilling of free slaying noobs *cough* @@Cristo *cough*

[Kyoko 0]

@@Hidingmaster how does one fail to mass freekill? noones aim that bad. Mine is the worst.

[Forest 309]

Honestly, I am 100% in agreeance for changing the terms of certain actions leading to certain punishments. As many have stated already, most of the bans that are dealt are for Mass Freekilling, a very small crime when compared to something like hacking, DDoS'ing, etc. Why should it be in the same ballpark when (like previously mentioned) one action is completely different from the other. Although, in regards to what Gawd is trying to say, I agree. The moment you give a lowered punishment for Mass Freekilling, some players will feel they are given much more leniency and will most likely shrug it off should they choose to do so.

 

What I propose to solve that dilemma is simply this;

 

If the Player Mass Freekills (with the intention of doing so), they are CT banned (or server banned depending on the scenario) for X amount of time. After their probation, they are obviously unbanned and free to rejoin CT, however; should they (intentionally) mass freekill again, then as a second offense they Will be permanently CT banned with no chance at an appeal. This way there will be no guilt trips, no discussions, no unbanning. Players will already be given another chance as soon as they decide to Mass FK, but should they choose to betray that trust and do it again, they will be perm'd.

 

In this case, the only time you would appeal for an unban, would be if it was an accidental mass freekill, in which the Staff Members would look into it, weigh the pros/cons and come to a verdict (with the input of the community as well). After all, there is a distinct difference between intentionally breaking a rule and accidentally breaking it.

 

With that in mind, there should be two different punishment times for Mass Freekilling intentionally versus Mass Freekilling accidentally. It should be obvious to determine which deserves what punishment.

 

TL;DR - Player gets CT banned for X amount of time for (intentionally) mass freekilling. Player then has no more chances should they choose to mass freekill Intentionally again and will be permanently CT banned with no chance at an appeal the next time they Intentionally do it again.

[Sousei 0]

Well heres the problem I see in your proposal Forest. Like I stated before, I'm not a fan of perm bans. I know everyone one fucks up once in their life, sometimes even twice. Unless they were to maliciously tear apart the clan, no perms should ever be given. If you ever gotten banned for a month in a clan, it's actually a lot. Try stepping in their shoes.

 

A member mentioned, (too lazy to look up) perms tend to isolate clan members from their own division; I don't think you guys understand that. Why don't we just make a member protest and take away their member status too? It's the exact equivalent to a permban. I'm from the gmod division so I know and seen the shit that happened. Perm bans left and right, due to mass rdm which is same thing as freekilling in css jailbreak. It just brings a rather negative vibe across the division while permanently removing members from that division.

 

TL;DR perms are almost the same shit as removing members from the clan and the whole dilemma came up because of perm's being warranted. If they were given time, that would probably shut them up so they would serve the punishment and be able to come back as a better person.

[Hidingmaster 19]

@@Hidingmaster how does one fail to mass freekill? noones aim that bad. Mine is the worst.

 

I've seen it happen. Rumor has it that they uninstalled steam and deleted system 32 shortly after their failure.